[opensuse-factory] work for the future: why do you still use Windows
Now that 11.4 is done and nearly out, we can think of the future. in 2011, most of us do not use anymore Windows or nearly. Still when we advertise openSUSE we need to be cautious. switching completely to openSUSE is nearly impossible, because there are still some locks. We should try to identify them and make the necessary effort to solve them. The installation problem is the most well known and we already work each day to solve it and make default install a snap on nearly any computer. The use of installable live cd/dvd solves most of these problems and anyway we can't do better than what we already do on this respect. So give testimonies here, and fill openfate entries to any lock you indentify here are three of mine: * have a decent linear video editor: https://features.opensuse.org/311439 * fully read slideshows: https://features.opensuse.org/311440 * I would add: make USB hardware more linux friendly, but this is more a kernel problem. I anyway open a feature for that, but I don't know exactly how we can make it successfull https://features.opensuse.org/311441 jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 1:04 PM, jdd
Now that 11.4 is done and nearly out, we can think of the future.
in 2011, most of us do not use anymore Windows or nearly. Still when we advertise openSUSE we need to be cautious. switching completely to openSUSE is nearly impossible, because there are still some locks.
JDD, I just created https://features.opensuse.org/311442 It is about my need for a OneNote compatible utility. I realize that is a major task that LibreOffice or KDE would need to take up, but I have atleast put in in openfate. openfate has a tagging capability. Are you tagging all of the features that fit into this category under a single tag? If so, please tag my feature as part of that set. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 19:20, Greg Freemyer a écrit :
openfate has a tagging capability. Are you tagging all of the features that fit into this category under a single tag?
I tagged this "key_features": https://features.opensuse.org/query/tag?tag=key_features I also tried to create a "why do we still use windows" feature to collect all them as related, but I'm not sure this will work (I'm not confident with openfate) https://features.opensuse.org/311443 jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 07:04:14PM +0100, jdd wrote:
* I would add: make USB hardware more linux friendly, but this is more a kernel problem. I anyway open a feature for that, but I don't know exactly how we can make it successfull https://features.opensuse.org/311441
What USB hardware does not work on Linux today? I have a bunch of USB devices that don't work on Windows, should that be an issue the other way around? Heck, we support USB 3.0 on Linux, while no other operating system does, is that a problem? Again, specifics are important here, broad general statements like this fate entry will get no where as they are impossible to address. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 19:45, Greg KH a écrit :
What USB hardware does not work on Linux today? I have a bunch of USB devices that don't work on Windows, should that be an issue the other way around?
are you kidding? can you quote me *any car GPS that works (update) on Linux? Garmin (tomtom), Alerte GPS (http://www.alertegps.com/), navigon? Can I use my Iphone or my Nokia or my Samsung cell phone? I don't say it's Linux fault, of course. But I still have to keep Winwods for that (and even under VirtualBox, not all works) any and every USB box have a cd with windows drivers (I don't speak about older devices, but I have a list of windows printers I have near me (LBP-800 laser)
Heck, we support USB 3.0 on Linux, while no other operating system does, is that a problem?
yes, right now there are no USB3 devices :-))
Again, specifics are important here, broad general statements like this fate entry will get no where as they are impossible to address.
We have to open the question. I'm willing to help, that is give as many infos I have, but I'm not a developper. I also know that the linux kernel is said to support each and any hardware (I always wonder in what world live some kernel developpers) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:03:33 +0100
jdd
yes, right now there are no USB3 devices :-))
Theres a harddrive with USB 3.0 (WD My Passport) in my backpack. -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 08:03:33PM +0100, jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 19:45, Greg KH a écrit :
What USB hardware does not work on Linux today? I have a bunch of USB devices that don't work on Windows, should that be an issue the other way around?
are you kidding?
can you quote me *any car GPS that works (update) on Linux? Garmin (tomtom), Alerte GPS (http://www.alertegps.com/), navigon? Can I use my Iphone or my Nokia or my Samsung cell phone?
Yes to all of those :) I have used Garmin devices on Linux, and lots of people use Tomtom devices with Linux, and the same for nokia and samsung phones. Specifics please.
I don't say it's Linux fault, of course. But I still have to keep Winwods for that (and even under VirtualBox, not all works)
any and every USB box have a cd with windows drivers (I don't speak about older devices, but I have a list of windows printers I have near me (LBP-800 laser)
Printers are totally different things, they are userspace programs and are not "usb drivers" at all. See the linuxprinting project for what you can do to help them out to solve this problem for your device.
Heck, we support USB 3.0 on Linux, while no other operating system does, is that a problem?
yes, right now there are no USB3 devices :-))
The pile of them on my desk that I have purchased from stores would beg to differ...
Again, specifics are important here, broad general statements like this fate entry will get no where as they are impossible to address.
We have to open the question. I'm willing to help, that is give as many infos I have, but I'm not a developper. I also know that the linux kernel is said to support each and any hardware (I always wonder in what world live some kernel developpers)
I wonder what world users live in where they don't report problems and yet expect them to still get resolved :) Please file individual bugs for your unworking hardware and we will work to resolve it. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Greg KH wrote:
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 08:03:33PM +0100, jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 19:45, Greg KH a écrit :
What USB hardware does not work on Linux today? I have a bunch of USB devices that don't work on Windows, should that be an issue the other way around?
are you kidding?
can you quote me *any car GPS that works (update) on Linux? Garmin (tomtom), Alerte GPS (http://www.alertegps.com/), navigon? Can I use my Iphone or my Nokia or my Samsung cell phone?
Yes to all of those :)
I have used Garmin devices on Linux, and lots of people use Tomtom devices with Linux, and the same for nokia and samsung phones.
Yes, I use my Nokia mobile with Linux with no problems. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 20:19, Per Jessen a écrit :
Yes, I use my Nokia mobile with Linux with no problems.
I never could do with my N95. Do you have access to the internal phone memory? I only could access the internal memory card jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 20:19, Per Jessen a écrit :
Yes, I use my Nokia mobile with Linux with no problems.
I never could do with my N95. Do you have access to the internal phone memory? I only could access the internal memory card
To be honest, I don't know - I only copy photos and music back and forth, maybe that is just the memory card. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 20:31, Per Jessen a écrit :
To be honest, I don't know - I only copy photos and music back and forth, maybe that is just the memory card.
I have to sync address book and sms. It's usually very difficult (including in windows, it's me that have to do for my family. syncing a samsung and an iphone4 was pretty tricky) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 20:31, Per Jessen a écrit :
To be honest, I don't know - I only copy photos and music back and forth, maybe that is just the memory card.
I have to sync address book and sms. It's usually very difficult (including in windows, it's me that have to do for my family. syncing a samsung and an iphone4 was pretty tricky)
Sounds like a good beginning: "because I cannot synchronize my mobiles address book and sms with...." -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 20:41, Per Jessen a écrit :
"because I cannot synchronize my mobiles address book and sms with...."
better: "my daughter asked me to syn her's sms" of course it's out of question to jailbreak any other family device! that said, I do'nt expect any lobbying (by us) to make Apple change (or can we? open source forbidden from itunes...) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 20:41, Per Jessen a écrit :
"because I cannot synchronize my mobiles address book and sms with...."
better: "my daughter asked me to syn her's sms"
Yes, that is also good.
of course it's out of question to jailbreak any other family device! that said, I do'nt expect any lobbying (by us) to make Apple change (or can we? open source forbidden from itunes...)
If it is a hardware issue and the manufacturer refuses to publish the necessary specs, there is no technical solution. The only solutions possible are: 1) stop using that hardware 2) keep pestering the manufacturer. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.2°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 21:11, Per Jessen a écrit :
2) keep pestering the manufacturer.
yes, it's this that could be done in a more organised manner jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 20:12, Greg KH a écrit :
I wonder what world users live in where they don't report problems and yet expect them to still get resolved :)
Please file individual bugs for your unworking hardware and we will work to resolve it.
I have often do and never seen any result. Including a kernel usb leader that said that all works. however, none of my cell phones works, none of my gps neither. just now, I connected my samsung S cell phone. Only seen as image medium, but not oppened by digikam (and it's a six month old device) I just connected my TomTom XL IQ Routes. Seen like a mass storage. How can I download the map updates from Garmin? you and the kernel devs are not guilty!! only stop saying we are in a brave new world... *I don't ask for an open source software solution* It's simply impossible to acheive when any day dozen of devices come on the market. We have to make lobbies, and in a more coordinated effort that was previously (adnd Novell did a good job on the software side). I'm *not* willing to make a list of the problems, but in the day of facebook and tweet, we can do better against the makers jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2011/3/7 jdd
you and the kernel devs are not guilty!! only stop saying we are in a brave new world...
They answer that because you (wrongly) say things as "make USB hardware more linux friendly, but this is more a kernel problem" when your problems are from user space, and have little to do with USB. You want to sync your phone with your computer? That's a http://www.opensync.org/ problem. And the problem is exactly the same whatever you connect your phone through USB or Bluetooth. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 20:33, Cristian Morales Vega a écrit :
You want to sync your phone with your computer? That's a http://www.opensync.org/ problem. And the problem is exactly the same whatever you connect your phone through USB or Bluetooth.
this one of the answers I seek for. Let's decide how much work openSUSE will give to opensync (for example) I'm not that good as managing. Do somebody know some sort of priority chart we could use? Say. Somebody come and want to help. Could we send him to this place saying "the 2011 priority is on..." jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 20:33, Cristian Morales Vega a écrit :
You want to sync your phone with your computer? That's a http://www.opensync.org/ problem. And the problem is exactly the same whatever you connect your phone through USB or Bluetooth.
this one of the answers I seek for.
Let's decide how much work openSUSE will give to opensync (for example)
I'm not that good as managing. Do somebody know some sort of priority chart we could use? Say. Somebody come and want to help. Could we send him to this place saying "the 2011 priority is on..."
jdd, you're talking about planning. We don't really do much planning. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.8°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, March 08, 2011 02:02:46 AM Per Jessen wrote:
We don't really do much planning.
It doesn't mean we should not start at some point. One of reasons we don't have more contributors is that we don't have small tasks that one can do in spare time, and we don't have small tasks because we don't have a plan where we want to improve. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday, March 08, 2011 02:02:46 AM Per Jessen wrote:
We don't really do much planning.
It doesn't mean we should not start at some point.
+1
One of reasons we don't have more contributors is that we don't have small tasks that one can do in spare time, and we don't have small tasks because we don't have a plan where we want to improve.
+1 -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
One of reasons we don't have more contributors is that we don't have small tasks that one can do in spare time, and we don't have small tasks because we don't have a plan where we want to improve.
Most of the things I do for openSUSE are small, isolated items. They exist and I do exactly those which I need or feel should be done. I don't care much about big pictures and plans. This is not work for hire. -- Ralf Lang Linux Consultant / Developer B1 Systems GmbH Osterfeldstraße 7 / 85088 Vohburg / http://www.b1-systems.de GF: Ralph Dehner / Unternehmenssitz: Vohburg / AG: Ingolstadt,HRB 3537 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 09/03/2011 13:13, Ralf Lang a écrit :
One of reasons we don't have more contributors is that we don't have small tasks that one can do in spare time, and we don't have small tasks because we don't have a plan where we want to improve.
Most of the things I do for openSUSE are small, isolated items. They exist and I do exactly those which I need or feel should be done. I don't care much about big pictures and plans. This is not work for hire.
true, but often new people come and ask for some task (right now on the marketting list) also many already working people go to a project if it's priority (I stopped most of my work to make video tutorials for 11.4, because nobody else come in) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 08:24:39PM +0100, jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 20:12, Greg KH a écrit :
I wonder what world users live in where they don't report problems and yet expect them to still get resolved :)
Please file individual bugs for your unworking hardware and we will work to resolve it.
I have often do and never seen any result. Including a kernel usb leader that said that all works.
however, none of my cell phones works, none of my gps neither.
just now, I connected my samsung S cell phone. Only seen as image medium, but not oppened by digikam (and it's a six month old device)
So the kernel is working properly, file a digikam bug please so it will properly know to index your device.
I just connected my TomTom XL IQ Routes. Seen like a mass storage. How can I download the map updates from Garmin?
Again, the kernel is working here, you just need to copy the proper files to the device. I do that all the time with my Garmin device.
you and the kernel devs are not guilty!! only stop saying we are in a brave new world...
So what should I say?
*I don't ask for an open source software solution* It's simply impossible to acheive when any day dozen of devices come on the market.
We have to make lobbies, and in a more coordinated effort that was previously (adnd Novell did a good job on the software side).
I'm *not* willing to make a list of the problems, but in the day of facebook and tweet, we can do better against the makers
If you aren't willing to at least list the specific problems, and file bugs, nothing will ever get fixed, sorry. best of luck, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 20:36, Greg KH a écrit :
If you aren't willing to at least list the specific problems, and file bugs, nothing will ever get fixed, sorry.
did you notice I already did often in the last 10 years, with little or no result. with such attitude, do not ask why we don't have more users. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 08:42:57PM +0100, jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 20:36, Greg KH a écrit :
If you aren't willing to at least list the specific problems, and file bugs, nothing will ever get fixed, sorry.
did you notice I already did often in the last 10 years, with little or no result.
I have not, pointers to specific bugs please?
with such attitude, do not ask why we don't have more users.
"file a bug and we will fix it" is a much better attitude than you can get from other operating systems... thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 20:57, Greg KH a écrit :
"file a bug and we will fix it" is a much better attitude than you can get from other operating systems...
the other operating system have no problem, driver are given on cd It's too early to make bureports for the next openSUSE, let's stop coding and begin thinking more widely jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 09:53:43PM +0100, jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 20:57, Greg KH a écrit :
"file a bug and we will fix it" is a much better attitude than you can get from other operating systems...
the other operating system have no problem, driver are given on cd
Not true at all. I have loads of USB devices here that do not work on those "other operating systems".
It's too early to make bureports for the next openSUSE, let's stop coding and begin thinking more widely
We never stop coding :) thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mar 07, 11 20:42:57 +0100, jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 20:36, Greg KH a écrit :
If you aren't willing to at least list the specific problems, and file bugs, nothing will ever get fixed, sorry. did you notice I already did often in the last 10 years, with little or no result. with such attitude, do not ask why we don't have more users.
Jdd, while everybody is alert now, this is your chance to point out one(!) of your bugzilla numbers. cheers, JW- -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de back to ascii! __/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 __/ (____/ /\ (/) | _____________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) SuSE. Supporting Linux since 1992. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 08 March 2011 00:15:02 Juergen Weigert wrote:
If you aren't willing to at least list the specific problems, and file bugs, nothing will ever get fixed, sorry.
did you notice I already did often in the last 10 years, with little or no result. with such attitude, do not ask why we don't have more users.
Jdd, while everybody is alert now, this is your chance to point out one(!) of your bugzilla numbers.
I have an old winmodem not working in Linux. It there a chance that it is made working if I make a bugreport? Note that the production stopped about 10 years ago and the manufacturer did not disclose the specifications. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 22:21, Ilya Chernykh a écrit :
I have an old winmodem not working in Linux. It there a chance that it is made working if I make a bugreport? Note that the production stopped about 10 years ago and the manufacturer did not disclose the specifications.
yes, this is a very good question. We had long time ago a discussion about for how long a time a hardware have to be supported. ATM nobody wanted to make a hard limit. May be we should say: "no harware older than 10 years" will ever be supported, if it works, so good, if it don't work change it. this can be rude, but it's clear. I would support such thing. bugzilla use: * is it usefull to report a bug for the previous (supported) version, id it's not a security bug - (11.2)? * what is the manpower to give to the present version (now 11.3, next week 11.4) and what part to give to the future (factory)? * how many bugs are not fixed yet, and if the answer is bigger than a handfull, why ask for more? May be it could be usefull to have a clear answer (we all, openSUSE community) of what we need on the subject. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 08 March 2011 00:34:02 jdd wrote:
I have an old winmodem not working in Linux. It there a chance that it is made working if I make a bugreport? Note that the production stopped about 10 years ago and the manufacturer did not disclose the specifications.
yes, this is a very good question. We had long time ago a discussion about for how long a time a hardware have to be supported. ATM nobody wanted to make a hard limit. May be we should say: "no harware older than 10 years" will ever be supported, if it works, so good, if it don't work change it.
May be it could be usefull to have a clear answer (we all, openSUSE community) of what we need on the subject.
I suspect that if I make a bugreport for this modem, I will get a clear answer as "won't fix". Otherwise it is unrealistic to expect that somebody will ever bother to write a driver for a device, whose modern analog costs equivalent of $10 (in my city) and which was positioned by the manufacturer as Windows-only (with more expensive models being compatible with Linux). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/07/2011 02:34 PM, jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 22:21, Ilya Chernykh a écrit :
I have an old winmodem not working in Linux. It there a chance that it is made working if I make a bugreport? Note that the production stopped about 10 years ago and the manufacturer did not disclose the specifications.
yes, this is a very good question. We had long time ago a discussion about for how long a time a hardware have to be supported. ATM nobody wanted to make a hard limit. May be we should say: "no harware older than 10 years" will ever be supported, if it works, so good, if it don't work change it.
this can be rude, but it's clear. I would support such thing.
bugzilla use:
* is it usefull to report a bug for the previous (supported) version, id it's not a security bug - (11.2)?
No, considering that 11.2 is only supported for security/crash/data corruption. Chances are the first question asked will be, "can you reproduce on 11.3/11.4/Factory?" This isn't because we're lazy, it's because we probably can't reproduce your problem and it's pointless to go through all the steps of debugging it if it's already been fixed.
* what is the manpower to give to the present version (now 11.3, next week 11.4) and what part to give to the future (factory)?
As usual, that's up to the individual developer.
* how many bugs are not fixed yet, and if the answer is bigger than a handfull, why ask for more?
Because that statement assumes that all bug reports are created equal, and they're not. A commonly encountered boot-crash issue will take priority over others. The GP's issue regarding an undocumented ten-year-old winmodem will obviously be extremely low priority. Even if a particular issue can't be addressed in a given release, it's useful to track it anyway. The openSUSE developer community is part of a much larger open source development community. Version updates between releases can incorporate fixes that didn't make it into the prior release and, I'd imagine, only a few of us actually have the time to actively track these. - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SuSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk11YJAACgkQLPWxlyuTD7KpywCdElbxvYL4SgpCzPPjctXv6+fu PkoAn1dnqKOA1+mp9s/PnAqAI8sjVB8E =ujYd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Mar 08, 2011 at 12:21:18AM +0300, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Tuesday 08 March 2011 00:15:02 Juergen Weigert wrote:
If you aren't willing to at least list the specific problems, and file bugs, nothing will ever get fixed, sorry.
did you notice I already did often in the last 10 years, with little or no result. with such attitude, do not ask why we don't have more users.
Jdd, while everybody is alert now, this is your chance to point out one(!) of your bugzilla numbers.
I have an old winmodem not working in Linux. It there a chance that it is made working if I make a bugreport? Note that the production stopped about 10 years ago and the manufacturer did not disclose the specifications.
Unfortunatly, due to the specs never being released, I do not see this device working. But, I did hear of some people getting it to work with very low baud rates. Have you tried a recent release to see if it now works for you? thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 00:21:18 +0300
Ilya Chernykh
I have an old winmodem not working in Linux. It there a chance that it is made working if I make a bugreport? Note that the production stopped about 10 years ago and the manufacturer did not disclose the specifications.
Just out of curiosity: does it work in current windows? -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 08 March 2011 01:02:38 Stefan Seyfried wrote:
I have an old winmodem not working in Linux. It there a chance that it is made working if I make a bugreport? Note that the production stopped about 10 years ago and the manufacturer did not disclose the specifications.
Just out of curiosity: does it work in current windows?
It is automatically detected by WinXP. I did not test under later systems, but I suppose even if they do not include the suitable drivers by default, drivers from Win XP or Win 2000 still can be installed. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 22:15, Juergen Weigert a écrit :
Jdd, while everybody is alert now, this is your chance to point out one(!) of your bugzilla numbers.
do you think it's the moment? too late for 11.4 and the devs need some rest before coding again :-) I have some here https://bugzilla.novell.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&email1=jdd%40dodin.org&emailtype1=exact&emailreporter1=1 and many where closed for some reason long time ago Please, you can't say I'm not an active reporter... and I will continue next month. why should so many discussion become personal? I don't blame anybody. I just point out what I have to cope with any day answering users complains and trying to solve them. We can do better (we, as a hole openSUSE, not anybody personnally). jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag 07 März 2011 schrieb jdd:
Le 07/03/2011 20:36, Greg KH a écrit :
If you aren't willing to at least list the specific problems, and file bugs, nothing will ever get fixed, sorry.
did you notice I already did often in the last 10 years, with little or no result.
with such attitude, do not ask why we don't have more users. attitude? what do you know about linux|opensuse|greg? ridicolous.
As Juergen said: show us your bugzillas. Hans-Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 22:22, Hans-Peter Holler a écrit :
As Juergen said: show us your bugzillas.
show me yours video tutorials... I stop answering personal questions, that become ridiculous jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 10:26:15PM +0100, jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 22:22, Hans-Peter Holler a écrit :
As Juergen said: show us your bugzillas.
show me yours video tutorials...
Oh, I like these types of arguments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLBrBBImJt4 (sorry, couldn't resist...) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag 07 März 2011 schrieb Greg KH:
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 10:26:15PM +0100, jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 22:22, Hans-Peter Holler a écrit :
As Juergen said: show us your bugzillas.
show me yours video tutorials...
Oh, I like these types of arguments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLBrBBImJt4
(sorry, couldn't resist...) good one, please remain resisting. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 22:52, Greg KH a écrit :
show me yours video tutorials...
Oh, I like these types of arguments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLBrBBImJt4
(sorry, couldn't resist...)
But I suspect it's not you that made the video :-) For now, I try to make things clearer, not to make bugs fixed. I don't understand why, each time somebody notes a problem, there is one to ask if the bug was reported. There are probably too many bugs reported, if I see that not all are fixed? if so, there is a problem and you can't do anything as a developper to fix this one, I'm pretty sure you have little time left :-). The discussion about openSUSE goals was never ending, but for a large part it was sure we can do nearly anything well. Henne FOSDEM report makes sure the openSUSE developpers are very good indeed, congratulations! But that don't mean we don't want to have priorities and primary goals. I tried to show some. * we don't have a linear video editor. There are so many good and cheap proprietary ones that it's clear there is a public for it (and camcorders a more and more cheap nowaday, even cell phones can do nice HD videos), so this could be a priority; * we can't view correctly slideshows spreading the web. It's not our fault, but Msoft one, but we can make it a priority * somebody needs onenote, may be this can be a priority? Some problems can be seen early. Drop a live dvd on your drive and control what works (may be we could make some utility to makes it easy to scan all the bits and pieces that works or don't, now the hardware report is pretty unfriendly). If some part of the computer don't work out of the box, at worst we can keep windows... eventually dualbooting. But if, after installation, I notice something don't go, it's much worst. Lack of video tool, problem seeing some document (not only slideshow), may make somebody the shift from openSUSE back to windows and *this* is dangerous, because he wont come back. May be we should help more libreoffice... Anyway, having clear, community driven priorities should be good. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 22:52, Greg KH a écrit :
show me yours video tutorials...
Oh, I like these types of arguments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLBrBBImJt4
(sorry, couldn't resist...)
But I suspect it's not you that made the video :-)
Not clear about your smiley, just curious.
For now, I try to make things clearer, not to make bugs fixed.
Yes, that is what this list is for.
I don't understand why, each time somebody notes a problem, there is one to ask if the bug was reported.
Making some things clearer is mainly for youself and others to assure where the problems are. But no developer will start "his" real activity simply by reading a problem stating discussion here. The seed for any developer action "in foreign cases" is a bugzilla entry and the proper responses there.
There are probably too many bugs reported, if I see that not all are fixed?
A very much too plain view. NEEDINFO is a progress stopper until the requested info reporter responds. "there are probably too many lazy reporters" would be a second view.
if so, there is a problem and you can't do anything as a developper to fix this one, I'm pretty sure you have little time left :-).
You see. At least are you telling it. Try to understand the bugzilla role and it's exclusivity for those that like to bring in a bug with the goal of getting rid of it. Viele Gruesse Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) -- Eberhard Moenkeberg Arbeitsgruppe IT-Infrastruktur E-Mail: emoenke@gwdg.de Tel.: +49 (0)551 201-1551 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gesellschaft fuer wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH Goettingen (GWDG) Am Fassberg 11, 37077 Goettingen URL: http://www.gwdg.de E-Mail: gwdg@gwdg.de Tel.: +49 (0)551 201-1510 Fax: +49 (0)551 201-2150 Geschaeftsfuehrer: Prof. Dr. Oswald Haan und Dr. Paul Suren Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Prof. Dr. Christian Griesinger Sitz der Gesellschaft: Goettingen Registergericht: Goettingen Handelsregister-Nr. B 598 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Le 07/03/2011 23:30, Eberhard Moenkeberg a écrit :
if so, there is a problem and you can't do anything as a developper to fix this one, I'm pretty sure you have little time left :-).
You see. At least are you telling it. Try to understand the bugzilla role and it's exclusivity for those that like to bring in a bug with the goal of getting rid of it.
nobody will even try if the distro is not the very last, because nobody cares (try 11.4, I was said). Again, I don't blame anybody (and specially not you :-) I spent my time recently making doc and video tutorials. I spent more than a full week (fulltime) to try any openSUSE linear editor and none could work more than 10 minutes (I was not able to make Blender work at all, but this is because the lack of documentation) so I had to revert to my proprietary application. It's not a matter of obscure bug, here, it's a matter of an application that saves a project with some data and load the same project next day with other data... and when 11.4 worked on VirtualBox, that is only with RC2, I had little time to make bugreports and have them solved :-( I simply made the conclusion that there is not enough manpower on this project and that we could help. But I don't want to push only my interest, but to have a project goal. If my editor is only the project for the other next year, no problem. But I would like to know. and I think I wont answer anymore. This is not a discussion I want to have me alone against everybody. I don't mind to have my bugs fixed. I mind we have a project with a clear goal. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
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stuart@bolin.org.uk wrote:
Multi user accounting and auditing - kmymoney and gnucash for small business but not for big companies.
sql-ledger? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.8°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 5:15 PM, jdd
Le 07/03/2011 22:52, Greg KH a écrit :
show me yours video tutorials...
Oh, I like these types of arguments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLBrBBImJt4
(sorry, couldn't resist...)
But I suspect it's not you that made the video :-)
JDD, I think in this case the presenter is contributing a lot more than the video guy. And Greg KH is the presenter. A gather you don't know his background. He is a very significant kernel developer. I think he is ranked in the top 5 key kernel developers. (Linus Torvalds, Andrew Morton, ..., Greg KH) You should read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Kroah-Hartman The more you know about the kernel, the more the highly condensed article will impress you. Specifically he is the USB subsystem maintainer as well as supporting several other key projects specifically relevant to this thread. So you do indeed have the ear of one of the most important people you could be talking to relevant to getting kernel hardware support in the kernel. ie. I suspect Greg KH is doing more than anyone including Linus Torvalds or Andrew Morton etc. to increase the kernels hardware support Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 23:39, Greg Freemyer a écrit :
I think in this case the presenter is contributing a lot more than the video guy.
who know what the video guy had to do to acheive his task? (anyway it was not me) why do you want to personalize the thread? I try to summarize what works and what don't. nothing personal. with so many personal attacks, I wonder who will answer the real subject. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
El 07/03/11 20:10, jdd escribió:
Le 07/03/2011 23:39, Greg Freemyer a écrit :
with so many personal attacks, I wonder who will answer the real subject.
I have so far seen no real subject, but only a far fetched generic question that has no answer whatsoever plus complains without bug reports. This is not going to get anything solved. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 08/03/2011 00:15, Cristian Rodríguez a écrit :
question that has no answer whatsoever plus complains without bug reports.
This is not going to get anything solved.
I want to adress problems far beyond bug reports. no bug report will make us have a good video linear editor or an open note application. I ask here on purpose, because I'm sure that if one of us if obliged to go to Windows, it's only because there ATM no other solution. so if you never use W, very good, you dont have to answer. here I seek for problems, not solutions. solutions will come later, if and only if a priority is made to some project and the corresponding manpower devoted to it jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 6:10 PM, jdd
Le 07/03/2011 23:39, Greg Freemyer a écrit :
I think in this case the presenter is contributing a lot more than the video guy.
who know what the video guy had to do to acheive his task? (anyway it was not me)
why do you want to personalize the thread? I try to summarize what works and what don't. nothing personal.
with so many personal attacks, I wonder who will answer the real subject.
JDD, I'm not trying to attack you or anyone else. But in way of analogy, talking to your local car mechanic about issues with your engine is different than talking to a BMW engineer. With the engineer, you are talking to someone who can actually fix the problem, but you typically need to be precise so that he fully understands the problem and redesigns the engine the right way. When talking about USB devices and kernel support, Greg KH is that engineer. If USB device support is a key thing for you, you have his ear, leverage that fact. Greg (not KH) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
El 07/03/11 19:15, jdd escribió:
Le 07/03/2011 22:52, Greg KH a écrit :
show me yours video tutorials...
Oh, I like these types of arguments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLBrBBImJt4
(sorry, couldn't resist...)
But I suspect it's not you that made the video :-)
He is the speaker.. Anyway, as usual, this discussion is not going anywhere, so I ask you to point exactly what does not work, bug numbers, you have the unique oportunity to get it fixed :-) Unfortunately I have the impression that you are just rumbling and complaining, I urge you to prove me wrong. Cheers. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/07/2011 03:15 PM, jdd wrote:
I don't understand why, each time somebody notes a problem, there is one to ask if the bug was reported.
Because not all developers are subscribed to opensuse-factory. Even if they were, opensuse-factory is not the right forum for tracking issues. Bugzilla maintains the dialog, offers attachments, maintains state, and offers other features that email threads don't. I try to stay on top of things, but you can bank on the fact that I will not use a mailing list search to keep on top of the issues I'm tracking.
There are probably too many bugs reported, if I see that not all are fixed?
With limited resources come limited results. Again, bug reports are not all created equal. I definitely want to see openSUSE succeed, but I do have a life outside of it. - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SuSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk11YlYACgkQLPWxlyuTD7Lv4wCfYhWmmqpExdX0PwQLJZbtdN9C KBgAn1sqysLGyzyCKRvBtmol7+EyOUCv =WXn6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag 07 März 2011 schrieb jdd:
Le 07/03/2011 22:52, Greg KH a écrit :
show me yours video tutorials...
Oh, I like these types of arguments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLBrBBImJt4
(sorry, couldn't resist...)
But I suspect it's not you that made the video :-) How could he? he was on stage.
I'm a dump old fashioned C-programmer. I know what could make a program fail within a developing process. In these times a simple vi/make/make install could it be, or not. But now a simple checkout into the openSUSE<call it anything> can break something hardly. So please give the developers a chance to correct failures in an timeframe they have to be responsible thereself Hans-Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 07/03/11 20:36, Greg KH wrote:
I just connected my TomTom XL IQ Routes. Seen like a mass storage. How can I download the map updates from Garmin?
Again, the kernel is working here, you just need to copy the proper files to the device. I do that all the time with my Garmin device.
Greg, I also have a Garmin Nuvi, and I would love to be able to update it from Linux. Could you please document the steps you take to update it (or point to an existing doc) ? I couldn't even register it on Garmin website, let alone download the map updates, as they require you to install some ActiveX in your browser to identify the device. Not an option, as I don't have Windows. TIA Ph. A. -- *Philippe Andersson* Unix System Administrator IBA Particle Therapy | Tel: +32-10-475.983 Fax: +32-10-487.707 eMail: pan@iba-group.com http://www.iba-worldwide.com
On Tuesday 08 Mar 2011 09:20:25 Philippe Andersson wrote:
On 07/03/11 20:36, Greg KH wrote:
I just connected my TomTom XL IQ Routes. Seen like a mass storage. How can I download the map updates from Garmin?
Again, the kernel is working here, you just need to copy the proper files to the device. I do that all the time with my Garmin device.
Greg,
I also have a Garmin Nuvi, and I would love to be able to update it from Linux. Could you please document the steps you take to update it (or point to an existing doc) ?
I couldn't even register it on Garmin website, let alone download the map updates, as they require you to install some ActiveX in your browser to identify the device. Not an option, as I don't have Windows.
TIA
Ph. A.
My father has a TomTom OneXL as far as I know the only way to update the software is via TomTomHome sure i can see it as a mass storage device, but is there a how to somewhere the describes how to download the file and where on the device to apply them in order to get the latest updates? -- Kind Regards Stuart Tanner Bolton Linux 24 Vincent Street Bolton BL1 4SA Tel: +44(0)1204 410474 Mob: +44(0)7868 028028 www.bolin.org.uk Distributing openSUSE in the UK Registered Linux User: 529825 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 08/03/11 13:15, Stuart Tanner wrote:
On Tuesday 08 Mar 2011 09:20:25 Philippe Andersson wrote:
On 07/03/11 20:36, Greg KH wrote:
I just connected my TomTom XL IQ Routes. Seen like a mass storage. How can I download the map updates from Garmin?
Again, the kernel is working here, you just need to copy the proper files to the device. I do that all the time with my Garmin device.
Greg,
I also have a Garmin Nuvi, and I would love to be able to update it from Linux. Could you please document the steps you take to update it (or point to an existing doc) ?
I couldn't even register it on Garmin website, let alone download the map updates, as they require you to install some ActiveX in your browser to identify the device. Not an option, as I don't have Windows.
TIA
Ph. A.
My father has a TomTom OneXL as far as I know the only way to update the software is via TomTomHome sure i can see it as a mass storage device, but is there a how to somewhere the describes how to download the file and where on the device to apply them in order to get the latest updates?
That's one of the beefs I have with TomTom, their GPS's runs Linux with some form of convoluted FAT partition. About 4 years ago I backed up a TomTom Go 700 to Linux successfully, applied some updates and when restored all the filenames appeared as lowecase only and the device was bricked. I had to RMA back to TomTom to be fixed. I never worked out whether the problem was FAT support on Linux at that time or something strange on the GPS. I do transfer mixed case files to FAT partitions on Beagleboard and to USB keys regularly without such a problem. The commercial guys do some strange things - I have seen some Linux firewall distros that were designed to work only with Windows. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 13:15 +0000, Stuart Tanner wrote:
My father has a TomTom OneXL as far as I know the only way to update the software is via TomTomHome sure i can see it as a mass storage device, but is there a how to somewhere the describes how to download the file and where on the device to apply them in order to get the latest updates? -- Horrible thing is that those tom-tom devices run internally linux, but require windows for updating (got one myself, and have to do the updating on an abandonned pc at work)
hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Mar 08, 2011 at 10:20:25AM +0100, Philippe Andersson wrote:
On 07/03/11 20:36, Greg KH wrote:
I just connected my TomTom XL IQ Routes. Seen like a mass storage. How can I download the map updates from Garmin?
Again, the kernel is working here, you just need to copy the proper files to the device. I do that all the time with my Garmin device.
Greg,
I also have a Garmin Nuvi, and I would love to be able to update it from Linux. Could you please document the steps you take to update it (or point to an existing doc) ?
I do not know, sorry, I have a different model and haven't updated it in years, only the maps and cache data which works just fine from Linux.
I couldn't even register it on Garmin website, let alone download the map updates, as they require you to install some ActiveX in your browser to identify the device. Not an option, as I don't have Windows.
Odd, that means they are cutting out the os-x users as well? I find that a bit hard to believe, but oh well. Garmin also is using Linux internally in their newer devices, so I imagine there are ways to update the devices as that is what their engineers use, it might not just be all that public. good luck, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 08/03/2011 16:47, Greg KH a écrit :
Garmin also is using Linux internally in their newer devices, so I imagine there are ways to update the devices as that is what their engineers use, it might not just be all that public.
may be we could ask them, if they are a bit linux friendly. They offer a quarterly update at low cost, it should be nice to have it on Linux. I may try, but we could have more impact as a community. Is there somewhere some sort of argumentation I could use? what kind of help can I propose to them if I speak as community member? thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 08/03/2011 17:09, jdd a écrit :
Le 08/03/2011 16:47, Greg KH a écrit :
Garmin also is using Linux internally in their newer devices, so I imagine there are ways to update the devices as that is what their engineers use, it might not just be all that public.
may be we could ask them, if they are a bit linux friendly. They offer a quarterly update at low cost, it should be nice to have it on Linux.
I may try, but we could have more impact as a community.
Is there somewhere some sort of argumentation I could use? what kind of help can I propose to them if I speak as community member?
thanks jdd
we certainly can speak with them: http://www.tomtom.com/page.php?Page=gpl jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Could you speak to TomTom about getting TomTom home adapted for linux?
There was an open letter floating around on the net few years back don't know if it got anywhere.
For these things I think we need combined projects of opensuse debian ubuntu etc to give us a larger voice for garmin and tomtom to listen to.
Stuart
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone
-----Original Message-----
From: jdd
Garmin also is using Linux internally in their newer devices, so I imagine there are ways to update the devices as that is what their engineers use, it might not just be all that public.
may be we could ask them, if they are a bit linux friendly. They offer a quarterly update at low cost, it should be nice to have it on Linux. I may try, but we could have more impact as a community. Is there somewhere some sort of argumentation I could use? what kind of help can I propose to them if I speak as community member? thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 08/03/2011 17:21, stuart@bolin.org.uk a écrit :
For these things I think we need combined projects of opensuse debian ubuntu etc to give us a larger voice for garmin and tomtom to listen to.
yes, it's exactly why I spoked of reactivating of linux lobbying in that ces (tomtom), things could be simpler if they already use Linux and have GPL'ed software jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 08/03/11 16:30, jdd wrote:
Le 08/03/2011 17:21, stuart@bolin.org.uk a écrit :
For these things I think we need combined projects of opensuse debian ubuntu etc to give us a larger voice for garmin and tomtom to listen to.
yes, it's exactly why I spoked of reactivating of linux lobbying
in that ces (tomtom), things could be simpler if they already use Linux and have GPL'ed software
jdd
Nothing beyond Oct. last year on this site, but quite some months ago when I last checked there didn't seem to be any development ongoing. The site has been active for years, but for the Go 700 I had there was nothing. http://www.opentom.org/Main_Page Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 08/03/11 20:17, Sid Boyce wrote:
On 08/03/11 16:30, jdd wrote:
Le 08/03/2011 17:21, stuart@bolin.org.uk a écrit :
For these things I think we need combined projects of opensuse debian ubuntu etc to give us a larger voice for garmin and tomtom to listen to.
yes, it's exactly why I spoked of reactivating of linux lobbying
in that ces (tomtom), things could be simpler if they already use Linux and have GPL'ed software
jdd
Nothing beyond Oct. last year on this site, but quite some months ago when I last checked there didn't seem to be any development ongoing. The site has been active for years, but for the Go 700 I had there was nothing. http://www.opentom.org/Main_Page Regards Sid.
The above should read Go 500 - so long ago I forgot what model it was. I downloaded TTconsole and I'll see if that's of any use for maintenance updates. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 08/03/11 17:09, jdd wrote:
Le 08/03/2011 16:47, Greg KH a écrit :
Garmin also is using Linux internally in their newer devices, so I imagine there are ways to update the devices as that is what their engineers use, it might not just be all that public.
may be we could ask them, if they are a bit linux friendly. In my experience, they are not. When I inquired with them on how I should register my device, once I told them I used Linux they didn't want to hear from me any more.
Ph. A. -- *Philippe Andersson* Unix System Administrator IBA Particle Therapy | Tel: +32-10-475.983 Fax: +32-10-487.707 eMail: pan@iba-group.com http://www.iba-worldwide.com
On 03/07/2011 02:24 PM, jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 20:12, Greg KH a écrit :
I wonder what world users live in where they don't report problems and yet expect them to still get resolved :)
Please file individual bugs for your unworking hardware and we will work to resolve it.
I have often do and never seen any result. Including a kernel usb leader that said that all works.
however, none of my cell phones works, none of my gps neither.
just now, I connected my samsung S cell phone. Only seen as image medium, but not oppened by digikam (and it's a six month old device)
I just connected my TomTom XL IQ Routes. Seen like a mass storage. How can I download the map updates from Garmin?
you and the kernel devs are not guilty!! only stop saying we are in a brave new world...
*I don't ask for an open source software solution* It's simply impossible to acheive when any day dozen of devices come on the market.
We have to make lobbies, and in a more coordinated effort that was previously (adnd Novell did a good job on the software side).
I'm *not* willing to make a list of the problems,
If you are not willing to make a list of the things that do not work for you, how do you expect them to get fixed. taking your car to the shop and saying it's broken will get you a very large bill, but most likely you'll leave the lot with the same problem that you had when you brought it to the shop. We do not expect people that report problems to be developers. We just expect reasonably detailed problem reports. That shouldn't be too much to ask. Please stop slinging mud and provide detailed explanations of your gripes and file bugs. Later, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Novell-IBM Software Integration Center LINUX Tech Lead rschweikert@novell.com rschweikert@ca.ibm.com 781-464-8147 Novell Making IT Work As One -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 07.03.2011 20:12, schrieb Greg KH:
Please file individual bugs for your unworking hardware and we will work to resolve it.
Hmm, I have one problem with USB since years and so far nobody was willing to help me with that. A USB connected HP OfficeJet frequently fails completely during printing because magic USB resets happening during printing. At some point I identified usblp to make it worse. Since that time I rmmod usblp before I print anything. Still there are chances that there happens a reset but with far less risk. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 21:03:39 +0100
Wolfgang Rosenauer
A USB connected HP OfficeJet frequently fails completely during printing because magic USB resets happening during printing. At some point I identified usblp to make it worse. Since that time I rmmod usblp before I print anything. Still there are chances that there happens a reset but with far less risk.
Probably a stupid question, but still: Did you try a different cable? And, another thing that I found out more than once: sometimes Hardware is just broken and fails no matter what OS is driving it. Not saying that this is the case here but to be considered. -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 07.03.2011 23:08, schrieb Stefan Seyfried:
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 21:03:39 +0100 Wolfgang Rosenauer
wrote: A USB connected HP OfficeJet frequently fails completely during printing because magic USB resets happening during printing. At some point I identified usblp to make it worse. Since that time I rmmod usblp before I print anything. Still there are chances that there happens a reset but with far less risk.
Probably a stupid question, but still:
Did you try a different cable?
Yes, different cable, different USB port. I often got the answer that it's hardware related but I could not verify that and I still don't believe it. So why is usblp regularly resetting the USB connection? Actually I need to create some logging testcases once again with 11.4 to see if it's still the same and how the error shows up.
And, another thing that I found out more than once: sometimes Hardware is just broken and fails no matter what OS is driving it. Not saying that this is the case here but to be considered.
If it hits me too hard I usually fire up a Windows VM in VirtualBox, connect the printer to the VM and it usually works without any issue. Probably it was just pure luck as it is the same hardware and the same kernel. Connecting the printer to a Windows laptop with the same cable always worked as well. I still think something in the stack is at fault here. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
Am 07.03.2011 23:08, schrieb Stefan Seyfried:
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 21:03:39 +0100 Wolfgang Rosenauer
wrote: A USB connected HP OfficeJet frequently fails completely during printing because magic USB resets happening during printing. At some point I identified usblp to make it worse. Since that time I rmmod usblp before I print anything. Still there are chances that there happens a reset but with far less risk.
Probably a stupid question, but still:
Did you try a different cable?
Yes, different cable, different USB port. I often got the answer that it's hardware related but I could not verify that and I still don't believe it. So why is usblp regularly resetting the USB connection? Actually I need to create some logging testcases once again with 11.4 to see if it's still the same and how the error shows up.
My HP Lasterjet 1200 also also didn't work properly via USB on my old server (which was still newer than the printer). I had to use the parallel port. About half a year ago I replaced the server with one that doesn't have a parallel port anymore. On the new server printing via USB works reliable. Even with the original cable I kept in the locker for ten years or so. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hello Wolfgang, On Mar 7 23:18 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote (excerpt):
I often got the answer that it's hardware related
Your initial complaint that "nobody was willing to help me" was not exactly true because actually you already often got an answer but unfortunately "nobody was able to help" you.
I still think something in the stack is at fault here.
I also have the opinion that something is somehow a bit faulty somewhere in your particular case, see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470959#c9 Of course I know that I am also not able to really help you. Kind Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany AG Nuernberg, HRB 16746, GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi Johannes, Am 08.03.2011 11:41, schrieb Johannes Meixner:
Hello Wolfgang,
On Mar 7 23:18 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote (excerpt):
I often got the answer that it's hardware related
Your initial complaint that "nobody was willing to help me" was not exactly true because actually you already often got an answer but unfortunately "nobody was able to help" you.
Yes, perfectly true for the higher level stuff as the printing stack. You gave me numerous hints. Thanks for that! But we always came to the conclusion that it's something deep in USB stuff. This thread was about USB which is where either nobody was willing or also probably wasn't able to help.
I still think something in the stack is at fault here.
I also have the opinion that something is somehow a bit faulty somewhere in your particular case, see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470959#c9
Of course I know that I am also not able to really help you.
Yeah, it still looks like I'm the only one having these issues and I probably have to live with them for a bit longer. I guess it'll take until the printer's lifetime has been reached. I just felt I need to mention that issue in an USB thread where it was basically said that everything just works. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2011-03-07 at 11:12 -0800, Greg KH wrote:
Yes to all of those :)
I have used Garmin devices on Linux, and lots of people use Tomtom devices with Linux, and the same for nokia and samsung phones.
I have a TomTom, and to push the official updates, maps, etc, it requires Windows. Ask the company, they say Linux is not supported, they are thinking about it or something like that. I also have a Nokia phone, and linux support of it is very limited. I need windows to backup it, to get copies of sms, the phonelist, even to pull photos by BT, because linux can't handle BT (it did, it is broken last few times I tried). - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk12+BoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UriACePV+aQ4y4f4GxzgtHiq60WXzs AFUAn3u/HezkcT532wTBavTiGqB8oklL =EQXS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:03:33 +0100
jdd
Le 07/03/2011 19:45, Greg KH a écrit :
What USB hardware does not work on Linux today? I have a bunch of USB devices that don't work on Windows, should that be an issue the other way around?
are you kidding?
can you quote me *any car GPS that works (update) on Linux? Garmin (tomtom), Alerte GPS (http://www.alertegps.com/), navigon? Can I use my Iphone or my Nokia or my Samsung cell phone?
I don't say it's Linux fault, of course. But I still have to keep Winwods for that (and even under VirtualBox, not all works)
any and every USB box have a cd with windows drivers (I don't speak about older devices, but I have a list of windows printers I have near me (LBP-800 laser)
Heck, we support USB 3.0 on Linux, while no other operating system does, is that a problem?
yes, right now there are no USB3 devices :-))
Again, specifics are important here, broad general statements like this fate entry will get no where as they are impossible to address.
We have to open the question. I'm willing to help, that is give as many infos I have, but I'm not a developper. I also know that the linux kernel is said to support each and any hardware (I always wonder in what world live some kernel developpers)
jdd
Hi I have a Garmin Nuvi 360w that works fine as a GPS device, press and hold the battery icon and turn on debug mode then plug it in works fine with a number of Linux applications eg tangogps, QLandkarte I have just built python-pytrainer on the openSUSE Build Service for our Garmin Forerunner 305 and that works perfectly via garmintools. I do use crossover for Garmin Mapsource though ;) The onlything I need to do is manually edit POI's if I want to add speed data etc, need to look at creating some sort of POI editor, but I don't do it that often to justify my time. -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890) SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 11 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.32.27-0.2-default up 14 days 14:02, 6 users, load average: 0.26, 0.14, 0.10 GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - Driver Version: 260.19.26 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 20:27, Malcolm a écrit :
with a number of Linux applications eg tangogps, QLandkarte
QLandkarte is an example of application that could largely benefit of some help, it's good but far from it's proprietary couterparts. but again, turning debug mode on is not something I would like to ask on a forum :-) the related fate entry is not about software writing, but lobbying against makers (let alone use standard interfaces) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 10:45:03 -0800
Greg KH
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 07:04:14PM +0100, jdd wrote:
* I would add: make USB hardware more linux friendly, but this is more a kernel problem. I anyway open a feature for that, but I don't know exactly how we can make it successfull https://features.opensuse.org/311441
What USB hardware does not work on Linux today? I have a bunch of USB devices that don't work on Windows, should that be an issue the other way around?
Yeah, really. Whenever I plug something USB into a Windows box it always asks for a driver while in Linux it just works. This "USB support not good in Linux" urban legend should finally die, but it seems to live forever.
Heck, we support USB 3.0 on Linux, while no other operating system does, is that a problem?
Again, specifics are important here, broad general statements like this fate entry will get no where as they are impossible to address.
For flashing my Linux phone there's only Windows software available AFAIK. But that's nothing we can solve with a FATE entry, Motorola has to get their Milestones hit on some managers head instead... :-) -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Now that 11.4 is done and nearly out, we can think of the future.
in 2011, most of us do not use anymore Windows or nearly. Still when we advertise openSUSE we need to be cautious. switching completely to openSUSE is nearly impossible, because there are still some locks.
Actually, apart from games and accounting software, I (and my business) have been using only openSUSE since 2005. We could switch the accounting software to sql-ledger, but it's a single workstation still running W2K, not worth the effort for the moment. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.5°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Per Jessen wrote:
jdd wrote:
Now that 11.4 is done and nearly out, we can think of the future.
in 2011, most of us do not use anymore Windows or nearly. Still when we advertise openSUSE we need to be cautious. switching completely to openSUSE is nearly impossible, because there are still some locks.
Actually, apart from games and accounting software, I (and my business) have been using only openSUSE since 2005. We could switch the accounting software to sql-ledger, but it's a single workstation still running W2K, not worth the effort for the moment.
Regardless, your initial question is good: "why do you still use Windows?" Let's start by listing the reasons like this: "because ...." Gree Freemeyer started it very well with (paraphrased): "because I need a utility compatible with MS OneNote". My own (lame) contribution is: "because most Windows games play pretty poorly on Linux". Once we have a good selection of these, we can give them points and see if we end up with anything worthwhile (and practical). -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 20:26, Per Jessen a écrit :
My own (lame) contribution is:
"because most Windows games play pretty poorly on Linux".
Once we have a good selection of these, we can give them points and see if we end up with anything worthwhile (and practical).
agreed. But for this problem, I fear there is no solution. anyway gaming is a very special use, and it's better to have a special workstation for this :-)) That said I would like to run Starcraft II on openSUSE :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 20:26, Per Jessen a écrit :
My own (lame) contribution is:
"because most Windows games play pretty poorly on Linux".
Once we have a good selection of these, we can give them points and see if we end up with anything worthwhile (and practical).
agreed. But for this problem, I fear there is no solution. anyway gaming is a very special use,
But very common.
and it's better to have a special workstation for this :-)) That said I would like to run Starcraft II on openSUSE :-)
Yes, I also like openTTD on Linux as well as Master of Magic under dosbox, but it would be nice to play some of the games from this century too :-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 20:44, Per Jessen a écrit :
I would like to run Starcraft II on openSUSE :-)
Yes, I also like openTTD on Linux as well as Master of Magic under dosbox, but it would be nice to play some of the games from this century too :-)
starcraft II is from last year (and I didn't have time to finish it due to openSUSE work :-) - that said it's true that dosbox is a wonderfull system, much easier to use than the original dos. may be not enough advertised? For the more general problem. * I understand "usb device" is not specific enough. But it's like this that anybody sees it. So may be we should have a yast module to sort this out, that is when a device open, ask for what kind of device it is (opening a cell phone as a camera is not good), and sorting problems accordingly. I know it's often the case with USB printers. USB cameras are not yet that well seen (I'm on the digiKam mailing list). I have at least a keyring/photo frame that don't open at all. tha alertegps device looks like an RS232<=>USB hack (it's deadly slow :-(). let alone automatic bug reporting would be very usefull. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 20:44, Per Jessen a écrit :
I would like to run Starcraft II on openSUSE :-)
Yes, I also like openTTD on Linux as well as Master of Magic under dosbox, but it would be nice to play some of the games from this century too :-)
starcraft II is from last year (and I didn't have time to finish it due to openSUSE work :-)
Does it work under wine? I've got Starcraft I, but sofar have not bothered to try it under Linux.
- that said it's true that dosbox is a wonderfull system, much easier to use than the original dos.
+1.
* I understand "usb device" is not specific enough. But it's like this that anybody sees it.
Yes, but we (on this list) are not just anybody. When you ask the question "why do you still use Windows", we should be able to come with very specific answers. Maybe or maybe not accompanied by bug reports. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 07/03/2011 21:06, Per Jessen a écrit :
Yes, but we (on this list) are not just anybody. When you ask the question "why do you still use Windows", we should be able to come with very specific answers. Maybe or maybe not accompanied by bug reports.
not now we can't do anything well. We have first to decide what is the most important before it's early for the next release (after 11.4), that's why speaking of bugreport is not the problem here If we have nobody to look at the bugs, no bug report will be usefull. At some time in the future, we should have some sort of workship table, saying who is working on what, and most bug reporters should be able to assign the bug to the right person immediately (just an example) for example, when having problem with wifi card (as said elsewhere), one can't wait two days the anwswer. One must be able to go to a forum or mailing list and have somebody answer *now*, let alone because the problem is temporary again this is just an example, not to be taken too seriously. We need more organisation. priorities. I'm sure that if after discussion we decided to say "all the wifi hardware *must* work out of the box" and popularize this widely, we could get much more manpower to solve the problem. In the mean time, we couldn't work on a better video editor... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 21:06, Per Jessen a écrit :
Yes, but we (on this list) are not just anybody. When you ask the question "why do you still use Windows", we should be able to come with very specific answers. Maybe or maybe not accompanied by bug reports.
not now we can't do anything well. We have first to decide what is the most important before
it's early for the next release (after 11.4), that's why speaking of bugreport is not the problem here
If we have nobody to look at the bugs, no bug report will be usefull.
But you won't know until after you've written the report, so it can't stop you writing it. :-)
At some time in the future, we should have some sort of workship table, saying who is working on what, and most bug reporters should be able to assign the bug to the right person immediately (just an example)
for example, when having problem with wifi card (as said elsewhere), one can't wait two days the anwswer. One must be able to go to a forum or mailing list and have somebody answer *now*, let alone because the problem is temporary
again this is just an example, not to be taken too seriously. We need more organisation. priorities.
I'm sure that if after discussion we decided to say "all the wifi hardware *must* work out of the box" and popularize this widely, we could get much more manpower to solve the problem. In the mean time, we couldn't work on a better video editor...
I guess I took your question to be of a mostly practical nature, but you seem to be looking at it from a different angle. I'm not sure that is really a topic for this list though - maybe opensuse-project? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
We need both for certain, however after two years for a particular card not to be taken up should have already been talen care of in 11.2 or 11.3. Then we wouldn't need to discuss it now we could focus on jdd's video editor.
How hard is it to adapt the realtek source the driver is there just needs adapting or packaging.
Stuart
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone
-----Original Message-----
From: Per Jessen
Le 07/03/2011 21:06, Per Jessen a écrit :
Yes, but we (on this list) are not just anybody. When you ask the question "why do you still use Windows", we should be able to come with very specific answers. Maybe or maybe not accompanied by bug reports.
not now we can't do anything well. We have first to decide what is the most important before
it's early for the next release (after 11.4), that's why speaking of bugreport is not the problem here
If we have nobody to look at the bugs, no bug report will be usefull.
But you won't know until after you've written the report, so it can't stop you writing it. :-)
At some time in the future, we should have some sort of workship table, saying who is working on what, and most bug reporters should be able to assign the bug to the right person immediately (just an example)
for example, when having problem with wifi card (as said elsewhere), one can't wait two days the anwswer. One must be able to go to a forum or mailing list and have somebody answer *now*, let alone because the problem is temporary
again this is just an example, not to be taken too seriously. We need more organisation. priorities.
I'm sure that if after discussion we decided to say "all the wifi hardware *must* work out of the box" and popularize this widely, we could get much more manpower to solve the problem. In the mean time, we couldn't work on a better video editor...
I guess I took your question to be of a mostly practical nature, but you seem to be looking at it from a different angle. I'm not sure that is really a topic for this list though - maybe opensuse-project? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
stuart@bolin.org.uk wrote:
We need both for certain, however after two years for a particular card not to be taken up should have already been talen care of in 11.2 or 11.3. Then we wouldn't need to discuss it now we could focus on jdd's video editor.
How hard is it to adapt the realtek source the driver is there just needs adapting or packaging.
Stuart
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone
Is that one of those that forces one to top-post? What's the story with your card - maybe you're right that the current realtek driver could easily be adapted. OTOH, maybe there's a good reason why it cannot. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.2°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Mar 08, 2011 at 08:12:28AM +0000, stuart@bolin.org.uk wrote:
We need both for certain, however after two years for a particular card not to be taken up should have already been talen care of in 11.2 or 11.3. Then we wouldn't need to discuss it now we could focus on jdd's video editor.
How hard is it to adapt the realtek source the driver is there just needs adapting or packaging.
Which specific realtek driver are you referring to? I see lots of realtek support in the 11.4 kernel, have you tried it? thanks, greg k-h
Stuart
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone
-----Original Message----- From: Per Jessen
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 08:46:09 To: Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] work for the future: why do you still use Windows jdd wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 21:06, Per Jessen a écrit :
Yes, but we (on this list) are not just anybody. When you ask the question "why do you still use Windows", we should be able to come with very specific answers. Maybe or maybe not accompanied by bug reports.
not now we can't do anything well. We have first to decide what is the most important before
it's early for the next release (after 11.4), that's why speaking of bugreport is not the problem here
If we have nobody to look at the bugs, no bug report will be usefull.
But you won't know until after you've written the report, so it can't stop you writing it. :-)
At some time in the future, we should have some sort of workship table, saying who is working on what, and most bug reporters should be able to assign the bug to the right person immediately (just an example)
for example, when having problem with wifi card (as said elsewhere), one can't wait two days the anwswer. One must be able to go to a forum or mailing list and have somebody answer *now*, let alone because the problem is temporary
again this is just an example, not to be taken too seriously. We need more organisation. priorities.
I'm sure that if after discussion we decided to say "all the wifi hardware *must* work out of the box" and popularize this widely, we could get much more manpower to solve the problem. In the mean time, we couldn't work on a better video editor...
I guess I took your question to be of a mostly practical nature, but you seem to be looking at it from a different angle. I'm not sure that is really a topic for this list though - maybe opensuse-project?
-- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.1°C)
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:26:14 +0100
Per Jessen
"because most Windows games play pretty poorly on Linux".
"because I can burn DVDs without using software written by a certain person" Just kidding. I don't use optical media other than DVD-RAM anyway. -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
JDD iPhone4 (I have jail broken it so I can ssh into it and installed apt/debian on it.. but I would love to just wipe IOS totally and install Android and or openSUSE so it can be fully linux. The reason I use an iPhone is because I wanted to prove to users that GTKPod would support it but guess what it doesn't. Does PlayOnLinux support Adobe Suite? I do push linuxalt project to give people alternative applications to try out. My other gripe is WIFI. Twice this week I have installed openSUSE on new laptop's and the wifi doesn't work one didn't work on 11.3, but did work on 11.4 (but you have to install kernel-firmware). How are you supposed to install kernel-firmware without wifi in the first place - not everybody has a cable connection, some people have such things as mobile broadband only and use MyFi devices) yes we say download it on another machine and rpm -i kernel-firmware.x.rpm but still with the retail version can't they put selected packman or non-oss rpm's on a non-oss dvd this would make it much more usable? Last week was a Broadcom BCM4313, this week its a Realtek RTL8191SE. Maybe as we reach the end of a distribution its new hardware that hasn't been tested, but in order to make the distribution sucssed we really need to get everything working out of the box. Including WIFI. Stuart On Monday 07 Mar 2011 18:04:14 jdd wrote:
Now that 11.4 is done and nearly out, we can think of the future.
in 2011, most of us do not use anymore Windows or nearly. Still when we advertise openSUSE we need to be cautious. switching completely to openSUSE is nearly impossible, because there are still some locks.
We should try to identify them and make the necessary effort to solve them.
The installation problem is the most well known and we already work each day to solve it and make default install a snap on nearly any computer. The use of installable live cd/dvd solves most of these problems and anyway we can't do better than what we already do on this respect.
So give testimonies here, and fill openfate entries to any lock you indentify
here are three of mine:
* have a decent linear video editor: https://features.opensuse.org/311439
* fully read slideshows: https://features.opensuse.org/311440
* I would add: make USB hardware more linux friendly, but this is more a kernel problem. I anyway open a feature for that, but I don't know exactly how we can make it successfull https://features.opensuse.org/311441
jdd
-- Kind Regards Stuart Tanner Bolton Linux 24 Vincent Street Bolton BL1 4SA Tel: +44(0)1204 410474 Mob: +44(0)7868 028028 www.bolin.org.uk Distributing openSUSE in the UK Registered Linux User: 529825 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stuart Tanner wrote:
My other gripe is WIFI.
Twice this week I have installed openSUSE on new laptop's and the wifi doesn't work one didn't work on 11.3, but did work on 11.4 (but you have to install kernel-firmware). How are you supposed to install kernel-firmware without wifi in the first place - not everybody has a cable connection,
You would presumably have the same issue on Windows if you tried to install a Windows version with no built-in support?
Last week was a Broadcom BCM4313, this week its a Realtek RTL8191SE.
Are lack of decent/appropriate support for those reason enough for you to continue to use Windows? I.e. can you complete the sentence: "I (have|continue|need|want) to use Windows because ..." -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.0°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 03/07/2011 01:45 PM, Stuart Tanner wrote:
My other gripe is WIFI.
Twice this week I have installed openSUSE on new laptop's and the wifi doesn't work one didn't work on 11.3, but did work on 11.4 (but you have to install kernel-firmware). How are you supposed to install kernel-firmware without wifi in the first place - not everybody has a cable connection, some people have such things as mobile broadband only and use MyFi devices) yes we say download it on another machine and rpm -i kernel-firmware.x.rpm but still with the retail version can't they put selected packman or non-oss rpm's on a non-oss dvd this would make it much more usable?
Last week was a Broadcom BCM4313, this week its a Realtek RTL8191SE.
Maybe as we reach the end of a distribution its new hardware that hasn't been tested, but in order to make the distribution sucssed we really need to get everything working out of the box. Including WIFI.
A lot of us are working very hard to make that true for wifi. Without network, you must have installed from DVD. Surely, there is a linux-firmware package on that medium. Perhaps Broadcom's unfortunate name change for the 4313 firmware meant that the package was too old. If so, that is unfortunate. Is there a driver in the kernel for that RTL8191SE? I'm in the process of submitting one for the RTL8192SE that handles some of the 8191SE variations. What is the PCI ID for that card? Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Larry On Monday 07 Mar 2011 20:13:14 Larry Finger wrote:
On 03/07/2011 01:45 PM, Stuart Tanner wrote:
My other gripe is WIFI.
Twice this week I have installed openSUSE on new laptop's and the wifi doesn't work one didn't work on 11.3, but did work on 11.4 (but you have to install kernel-firmware). How are you supposed to install kernel-firmware without wifi in the first place - not everybody has a cable connection, some people have such things as mobile broadband only and use MyFi devices) yes we say download it on another machine and rpm -i kernel-firmware.x.rpm but still with the retail version can't they put selected packman or non-oss rpm's on a non-oss dvd this would make it much more usable?
Last week was a Broadcom BCM4313, this week its a Realtek RTL8191SE.
Maybe as we reach the end of a distribution its new hardware that hasn't been tested, but in order to make the distribution sucssed we really need to get everything working out of the box. Including WIFI.
A lot of us are working very hard to make that true for wifi.
Without network, you must have installed from DVD. Surely, there is a linux-firmware package on that medium. Perhaps Broadcom's unfortunate name change for the 4313 firmware meant that the package was too old. If so, that is unfortunate.
I installed from KDE LiveCD and I am not sure if the kernel-firmware was included but after installing kernel firmware the bcm4313 machine refused to dns lookup websites, I was informed the network I was connected to was suffering from problems, so I connected to the cloud but couldn't open the login page.
Is there a driver in the kernel for that RTL8191SE? I'm in the process of submitting one for the RTL8192SE that handles some of the 8191SE variations. What is the PCI ID for that card?
The RTIL8191SE is not supported by the kernel, as far as I know from searching online you need to make install the Realtek driver but having installed kernel source, make gcc etc via ethernet it still refused to compile. Is your driver ready for beta testing I would like to test your rpm. Today I would say I tested 11.4 RC2 on a laptop with an Intel based wireless chipset and I am happy to report it worked out of the box. I demonstrated it was possible to setup an FTP Server in under 5 minutes from a LiveCD without issues the best hardware profile I have used all week.
Larry
-- Kind Regards Stuart Tanner Bolton Linux 24 Vincent Street Bolton BL1 4SA Tel: +44(0)1204 410474 Mob: +44(0)7868 028028 www.bolin.org.uk Distributing openSUSE in the UK Registered Linux User: 529825 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 07/03/11 18:04, jdd wrote:
Now that 11.4 is done and nearly out, we can think of the future.
in 2011, most of us do not use anymore Windows or nearly. Still when we advertise openSUSE we need to be cautious. switching completely to openSUSE is nearly impossible, because there are still some locks.
We should try to identify them and make the necessary effort to solve them.
The installation problem is the most well known and we already work each day to solve it and make default install a snap on nearly any computer. The use of installable live cd/dvd solves most of these problems and anyway we can't do better than what we already do on this respect.
So give testimonies here, and fill openfate entries to any lock you indentify
here are three of mine:
* have a decent linear video editor: https://features.opensuse.org/311439
* fully read slideshows: https://features.opensuse.org/311440
* I would add: make USB hardware more linux friendly, but this is more a kernel problem. I anyway open a feature for that, but I don't know exactly how we can make it successfull https://features.opensuse.org/311441
jdd
As someone who ditched Windows back in the glory days of Windows 95, I would like to turn the question completely the other way around and ask why you still use Linux. There must be very positive and compelling reasons. As framed the question seems to imply that there are a massive number of problems and limits associated with Linux's ability to get work done. Not at this shop. Games for Windows -- There is Crossover games that addresses that. Photoshop etc. -- There is Crossover Office - thanks to Disney and Codeweavers. Slating wine is futile as it's always behind the offerings from Codeweavers who are major contributors to wine, the lag being for their commercial interests and those of their customers' contract limitations on public disclosure of certain code. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Sid Boyce wrote:
As someone who ditched Windows back in the glory days of Windows 95, I would like to turn the question completely the other way around and ask why you still use Linux. There must be very positive and compelling reasons. As framed the question seems to imply that there are a massive number of problems and limits associated with Linux's ability to get work done. Not at this shop. Games for Windows -- There is Crossover games that addresses that.
Last I looked (a while ago, granted) there were still significant issues with Direct3D. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.4°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Per Jessen wrote:
Sid Boyce wrote:
As someone who ditched Windows back in the glory days of Windows 95, I would like to turn the question completely the other way around and ask why you still use Linux. There must be very positive and compelling reasons. As framed the question seems to imply that there are a massive number of problems and limits associated with Linux's ability to get work done. Not at this shop. Games for Windows -- There is Crossover games that addresses that.
Last I looked (a while ago, granted) there were still significant issues with Direct3D.
Plus: Sid Meyers Alpha Centauri = "known to not work" :-( Deadlock = not even listed. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 8. März 2011 schrieb Per Jessen:
Per Jessen wrote:
Sid Boyce wrote:
As someone who ditched Windows back in the glory days of Windows 95, I would like to turn the question completely the other way around and ask why you still use Linux. There must be very positive and compelling reasons. As framed the question seems to imply that there are a massive number of problems and limits associated with Linux's ability to get work done. Not at this shop. Games for Windows -- There is Crossover games that addresses that.
Last I looked (a while ago, granted) there were still significant issues with Direct3D.
Plus: Sid Meyers Alpha Centauri = "known to not work" :-( Oh, that's 1998?
Deadlock = not even listed. 1996?
Where have you been? Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Dienstag, 8. März 2011 schrieb Per Jessen:
Per Jessen wrote:
Sid Boyce wrote:
As someone who ditched Windows back in the glory days of Windows 95, I would like to turn the question completely the other way around and ask why you still use Linux. There must be very positive and compelling reasons. As framed the question seems to imply that there are a massive number of problems and limits associated with Linux's ability to get work done. Not at this shop. Games for Windows -- There is Crossover games that addresses that.
Last I looked (a while ago, granted) there were still significant issues with Direct3D.
Plus: Sid Meyers Alpha Centauri = "known to not work" :-( Oh, that's 1998?
Deadlock = not even listed. 1996?
Where have you been?
Haha, been busy working. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Per Jessen wrote:
Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Dienstag, 8. März 2011 schrieb Per Jessen:
Per Jessen wrote:
Sid Boyce wrote:
As someone who ditched Windows back in the glory days of Windows 95, I would like to turn the question completely the other way around and ask why you still use Linux. There must be very positive and compelling reasons. As framed the question seems to imply that there are a massive number of problems and limits associated with Linux's ability to get work done. Not at this shop. Games for Windows -- There is Crossover games that addresses that.
Last I looked (a while ago, granted) there were still significant issues with Direct3D.
Plus: Sid Meyers Alpha Centauri = "known to not work" :-( Oh, that's 1998?
Deadlock = not even listed. 1996?
Where have you been?
Haha, been busy working.
/Per
Actually, the real reason I remain loyal to these old games is more likely that I started switching over (to Linux) around 2002/3, so my remaining Windows boxes never got upgraded, but have been stuck on W2K. In the mean time, children, business and life in general got in the way. I also still play Diablo occasionally. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.8°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 08/03/11 13:26, Per Jessen wrote:
Sid Boyce wrote:
As someone who ditched Windows back in the glory days of Windows 95, I would like to turn the question completely the other way around and ask why you still use Linux. There must be very positive and compelling reasons. As framed the question seems to imply that there are a massive number of problems and limits associated with Linux's ability to get work done. Not at this shop. Games for Windows -- There is Crossover games that addresses that.
Last I looked (a while ago, granted) there were still significant issues with Direct3D.
I have not been keeping up with recent releases either. As a matter of fact I just downloaded CXO and games 10.0.0. I don't have the games to try though. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 08/03/2011 13:55, Sid Boyce a écrit :
As someone who ditched Windows back in the glory days of Windows 95, I would like to turn the question completely the other way around and ask why you still use Linux. There must be very positive and compelling reasons.
right now I use dualboot to keep full power for HD video editing in Windows and Windows in virtualbox for gadjets sync. 95% of my work is done with openSUSE. But, as I said, my mother, some of her friends and my sister in law (all 70" and up) can't use openSUSE because the power point slideshow reading. And I can't ask this kind of people to dualboot :-). And, byt ther way, this makes me have to manage Windows Vista, what I hate! What make me try this thread is that the problem is often obviously small (I'm pretty sure than two qualified people could solve it in some weeks), so it could be solved if we wants. But I'm also sure we can"'t solve *all* the problems of this sort, so we have to choose. And so to know between what choose. May be it's much more important to solve the opennote problem (that donc have meaning for me but may have for many others). My goal is to identify the problems, sort them and make public what could be the priorities. And it's not a bugfix problem, nothing that can be solved so easily, that's why I openned files in openfate, not in bugzilla. Of course, once the priorities will be done, bugzilla will have all it's importance. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* jdd
But, as I said, my mother, some of her friends and my sister in law (all 70" and up) can't use openSUSE because the power point slideshow reading. And I can't ask this kind of people to dualboot :-). And, byt ther way, this makes me have to manage Windows Vista, what I hate!
we watch power-point presentations/slideshows in {open/libre}office.... -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* jdd
[03-08-11 09:37]: ... But, as I said, my mother, some of her friends and my sister in law (all 70" and up) can't use openSUSE because the power point slideshow reading. And I can't ask this kind of people to dualboot :-). And, byt ther way, this makes me have to manage Windows Vista, what I hate!
we watch power-point presentations/slideshows in {open/libre}office....
Ditto. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.8°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 08/03/2011 16:08, Per Jessen a écrit :
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
we watch power-point presentations/slideshows in {open/libre}office....
Ditto.
if you didn't try with windows, you can't see the difference, it's often hudge jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Le 08/03/2011 16:08, Per Jessen a écrit :
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
we watch power-point presentations/slideshows in {open/libre}office....
Ditto.
if you didn't try with windows, you can't see the difference, it's often hudge
I have noticed that they don't always looks so nice, but I usually ignore that. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 08/03/2011 17:52, Per Jessen a écrit :
I have noticed that they don't always looks so nice, but I usually ignore that.
I had my mother on the phone "why can't I listen to the music! my friend can!" at 90" she is sometime studborn :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Le 08/03/2011 17:52, Per Jessen a écrit :
I have noticed that they don't always looks so nice, but I usually ignore that.
I had my mother on the phone "why can't I listen to the music! my friend can!"
at 90" she is sometime studborn :-)
Just tell (in a whisper) her hearing must be getting worse .... :-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.2°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 08/03/11 14:37, jdd wrote:
Le 08/03/2011 13:55, Sid Boyce a écrit :
As someone who ditched Windows back in the glory days of Windows 95, I would like to turn the question completely the other way around and ask why you still use Linux. There must be very positive and compelling reasons.
right now I use dualboot to keep full power for HD video editing in Windows and Windows in virtualbox for gadjets sync.
95% of my work is done with openSUSE.
But, as I said, my mother, some of her friends and my sister in law (all 70" and up) can't use openSUSE because the power point slideshow reading. And I can't ask this kind of people to dualboot :-). And, byt ther way, this makes me have to manage Windows Vista, what I hate!
What make me try this thread is that the problem is often obviously small (I'm pretty sure than two qualified people could solve it in some weeks), so it could be solved if we wants. But I'm also sure we can"'t solve *all* the problems of this sort, so we have to choose. And so to know between what choose. May be it's much more important to solve the opennote problem (that donc have meaning for me but may have for many others).
My goal is to identify the problems, sort them and make public what could be the priorities.
And it's not a bugfix problem, nothing that can be solved so easily, that's why I openned files in openfate, not in bugzilla.
Of course, once the priorities will be done, bugzilla will have all it's importance.
jdd
That's OK, but there are so many things to cause a Linux wish list to crash Windows. I have guys in their 70's and 80's using Linux for all sorts of stuff. Long before it became OpenOffice I was using StarOffice for all the Powepoint presentations I delivered to colleagues and customers and I have yet to come across any issues. The occasional issue with Word and Excel formatting in the early days did occur. Every time I thought they'd force me back to using Windows, along came Citrix client for Linux, Cisco VPN client for Linux and wine to run Lotus Notes - all required to do the day job. Even when Disney asked Adobe to port Photoshop to Linux they weren't successful and they had to turn to Codeweavers. There were many petitions to Adobe from Linux users, pointing out that under Linux and Executor (the Mac emulator) we could run Photoshop, all to no avail for ages and when they offered to port it, few were interested as alternatives were available. The same situation occurred with Adaptec until the guys were so close and had only made 2 wrong assumptions which did not affect the ability to use their products under Linux. There were also lots of stuff I could do in Linux that I couldn't do in Windows and I noted that if something couldn't be done in Windows it caused no gripes, a fruitless exercise in any case as there is no one to listen, so you take what's given and work within the limits they set. Those types of companies either don't want to upset Microsoft or they see open source as a threat. In the SDR (Software Defined Radio) world recently we came across an issue where on a piece of hardware, No Windows version supports UAC2 (USB Audio Class 2) which restricts Windows users with UAC1 to inferior audio sampling rates compared to OSX and Linux unless they spent thousands of dollars to buy a driver under a NDA or purchase a $600.00 sound card with the manufacturer's driver against the $150.00 for the hardware on offer. Of course someone could write a UAC2 driver for Windows, a pretty big task which is unnecessary in the case of OSX and Linux. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
From 1999 to 2002 I've used only Linux mainly to professional needs. While I runned SuSE Linux at my desktop/home PC's, our infra-structure was Red Hat based, so I lived between SuSE and Red Hat.
From 2002 to 2004, I've used mainly Linux still, but I already had the need of using Windows. This was mainly because my bank used a Windows application for it which wasn't available for Linux. Then I would eventually increase my work load on Windows as from 2004 on I've developed work for a GSP (Game Server Provider). While the servers were using Linux, I ended up with putty on Windows most of the time because I needed to test the games, and they were windows games.
Later in 2007 I've turned my life and went back to the University,
this time to study Marketing Management and Windows became somehow
important. Though there were alternatives to Microsoft Office, it did
played a huge role. Many papers were group papers and people used
office. It's frustrating when you open a paper and all the graphs and
kinky stuff are not rendered. I screamed in agony a couple of times
because of that.
In 2009 I've tried a more direct approach on Linux with the normal
demands and eventually since then I've been around on Linux. I've
fixed the Microsoft Office issue by having my normal desktop PC with a
install of OSX (hackintosh, using Leo Hazard). Ever since then, my
laptop dual boots 2 flavors of Linux.
My current setup is:
Laptop:
- openSUSE 11.4 RC2 - vanilla clean // to test my repository (reinstalled often)
- openSUSE 11.4 RC2 - work
Desktop PC:
- Not used often... but when it was used was mainly to play WoW (World
of Warcraft), Day of Defeat Source (I was a regular of UKCS Donner
extreme server), and Office duties.
Asides from that I have a small 1U machine on a datacenter, it's running Debian.
NM
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Sid Boyce
On 08/03/11 14:37, jdd wrote:
Le 08/03/2011 13:55, Sid Boyce a écrit :
As someone who ditched Windows back in the glory days of Windows 95, I would like to turn the question completely the other way around and ask why you still use Linux. There must be very positive and compelling reasons.
right now I use dualboot to keep full power for HD video editing in Windows and Windows in virtualbox for gadjets sync.
95% of my work is done with openSUSE.
But, as I said, my mother, some of her friends and my sister in law (all 70" and up) can't use openSUSE because the power point slideshow reading. And I can't ask this kind of people to dualboot :-). And, byt ther way, this makes me have to manage Windows Vista, what I hate!
What make me try this thread is that the problem is often obviously small (I'm pretty sure than two qualified people could solve it in some weeks), so it could be solved if we wants. But I'm also sure we can"'t solve *all* the problems of this sort, so we have to choose. And so to know between what choose. May be it's much more important to solve the opennote problem (that donc have meaning for me but may have for many others).
My goal is to identify the problems, sort them and make public what could be the priorities.
And it's not a bugfix problem, nothing that can be solved so easily, that's why I openned files in openfate, not in bugzilla.
Of course, once the priorities will be done, bugzilla will have all it's importance.
jdd
That's OK, but there are so many things to cause a Linux wish list to crash Windows.
I have guys in their 70's and 80's using Linux for all sorts of stuff. Long before it became OpenOffice I was using StarOffice for all the Powepoint presentations I delivered to colleagues and customers and I have yet to come across any issues. The occasional issue with Word and Excel formatting in the early days did occur.
Every time I thought they'd force me back to using Windows, along came Citrix client for Linux, Cisco VPN client for Linux and wine to run Lotus Notes - all required to do the day job.
Even when Disney asked Adobe to port Photoshop to Linux they weren't successful and they had to turn to Codeweavers. There were many petitions to Adobe from Linux users, pointing out that under Linux and Executor (the Mac emulator) we could run Photoshop, all to no avail for ages and when they offered to port it, few were interested as alternatives were available. The same situation occurred with Adaptec until the guys were so close and had only made 2 wrong assumptions which did not affect the ability to use their products under Linux.
There were also lots of stuff I could do in Linux that I couldn't do in Windows and I noted that if something couldn't be done in Windows it caused no gripes, a fruitless exercise in any case as there is no one to listen, so you take what's given and work within the limits they set. Those types of companies either don't want to upset Microsoft or they see open source as a threat.
In the SDR (Software Defined Radio) world recently we came across an issue where on a piece of hardware, No Windows version supports UAC2 (USB Audio Class 2) which restricts Windows users with UAC1 to inferior audio sampling rates compared to OSX and Linux unless they spent thousands of dollars to buy a driver under a NDA or purchase a $600.00 sound card with the manufacturer's driver against the $150.00 for the hardware on offer. Of course someone could write a UAC2 driver for Windows, a pretty big task which is unnecessary in the case of OSX and Linux. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-- nelson marques nmo.marques@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Sid Boyce wrote:
Slating wine is futile as it's always behind the offerings from Codeweavers who are major contributors to wine, the lag being for their commercial interests and those of their customers' contract limitations on public disclosure of certain code.
That pretty much sounds like FUD to me. Wine is under a GPL license,
where the move from X to GPL actually was pushed by CodeWeavers and
any customer is entitled to source code without restrictions.
Gerald
--
Dr. Gerald Pfeifer
On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 01:36:09PM +0200, Gerald Pfeifer wrote:
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Sid Boyce wrote:
Slating wine is futile as it's always behind the offerings from Codeweavers who are major contributors to wine, the lag being for their commercial interests and those of their customers' contract limitations on public disclosure of certain code.
That pretty much sounds like FUD to me. Wine is under a GPL license, where the move from X to GPL actually was pushed by CodeWeavers and any customer is entitled to source code without restrictions.
LGPL v2.1 actually. And it is FUD, Codeweavers is actually _paying_ around 70%-80% of the actual Wine development power there is. I think they experimented with keeping back stuff years ago, but the resulting forking was costing so much resources they now only develop in mainline Wine. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 27/03/2011 13:40, Marcus Meissner a écrit :
LGPL v2.1 actually.
And it is FUD, Codeweavers is actually _paying_ around 70%-80% of the actual Wine development power there is.
I think they experimented with keeping back stuff years ago, but the resulting forking was costing so much resources they now only develop in mainline Wine.
but the real question is what is the differenece between codeweaver and wine, apart from the support? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 01:44:42PM +0200, jdd wrote:
Le 27/03/2011 13:40, Marcus Meissner a écrit :
LGPL v2.1 actually.
And it is FUD, Codeweavers is actually _paying_ around 70%-80% of the actual Wine development power there is.
I think they experimented with keeping back stuff years ago, but the resulting forking was costing so much resources they now only develop in mainline Wine.
but the real question is what is the differenece between codeweaver and wine, apart from the support?
You get a nice graphical installer wrapped around Wine, including multiple bottle support (install applications in different Wine environments), and some hacky bugfixes for specific apps. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 13:47, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 01:44:42PM +0200, jdd wrote:
but the real question is what is the differenece between codeweaver and wine, apart from the support?
You get a nice graphical installer wrapped around Wine, including multiple bottle support (install applications in different Wine environments), and some hacky bugfixes for specific apps.
And the rough equivalent of the 1-Click install - called CrossTie. These make is super easy to install apps/games that are known to work in Wine by pulling in and installing all the dependencies for you. Beats trying the Windows app installer, discovering it fails because of prereq 1, go find, download, and install prereq 1 and try again only to discover prereq 2 is now needed.... aka dependency hell. To me... this alone is worth the proverbial "price of admission" for Crossover. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
I used to use openSUSE on my primary desktop on a daily basis. Then one day a group of people came and stole the KDE name and released something called KDE4, many features were missing and I wasn't happy with the software so I filed bug reports for the legitimate bugs and missing features, but many of them were rejected. Since openSUSE can't be bothered to ship a good working KDE with their distribution, now I use a Mac. -- Med Vennlig Hilsen, A. Helge Joakimsen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 12:36 -0500, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:
I used to use openSUSE on my primary desktop on a daily basis.
Same here; I've been using openSUSE [GNOME] as my primary desktop since 10.3. It has been pretty much painless since 11.1; 11.3 has been amazingly stable and productive. I've filed a few bugs along the way, they've all been pretty much dealt with. Nothing really show stopper. I do all the normal stuff - edit documents [several large and complex ones], manage files, as well as more vertical apps such as DbVisualizer and Monodevelop. Evolution is very production for e-mail, calendar, notes, etc... [when coupled with a good server]. Since updating Tracker to newer packages that as worked very well as well [I've missed Beagle]. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (34)
-
Adam Tauno Williams
-
Andrew Joakimsen
-
C
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Carlos E. R.
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Cristian Morales Vega
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Cristian Rodríguez
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Eberhard Moenkeberg
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Gerald Pfeifer
-
Greg Freemyer
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Greg KH
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Hans Witvliet
-
Hans-Peter Holler
-
Ilya Chernykh
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jdd
-
Jeff Mahoney
-
Johannes Meixner
-
Juergen Weigert
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Larry Finger
-
Ludwig Nussel
-
Malcolm
-
Marcus Meissner
-
Nelson Marques
-
Patrick Shanahan
-
Per Jessen
-
Philippe Andersson
-
Rajko M.
-
Ralf Lang
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Robert Schweikert
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Sid Boyce
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Stefan Seyfried
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Stephan Kulow
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Stuart Tanner
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stuart@bolin.org.uk
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Wolfgang Rosenauer