[opensuse-factory] RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org
Hi all, In advance of Thursdays openSUSE Conference Workshop on the topic[1], I'd like to share with you all what I've been working on for replacing/improving software.opensuse.org My main goals have been to reduce the technical complexity of the current page (which often struggles under the heavy load of release days) while also doing a much better job of reflecting the offerings provided by the opensuse project and providing clearer help to users. You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/ The page is built using Jekyll, you can find the source at https://github.com/sysrich/new-software.o.o This email is a 'RFC' in two senses - not only am I keen to see Comments on the progress so far, but I would greatly appreciate Commits to improve what I have so far before this goes into production. The main thing that is desperately needed before I feel this new site is viable as a replacement for software.opensuse.org is a translation solution. I have been evaluating Polyglot [2] which seems to be a viable solution, but due to limited time and an inability to translate any other language, I would really like help getting it implemented. You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in the top right hand corner). This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be de-emphasising the software search, and in addition to my personal opinion I am hopeful that Thursdays workshop will open doors to other solutions to the problems with the current package search. Looking forward to what everyone things, happy hacking - Richard [1] https://events.opensuse.org/conference/oSC16/program/proposal/788 [2] https://untra.github.io/polyglot/ [3] https://events.opensuse.org/conference/oSC16/program/proposal/958 -- Richard Brown openSUSE Chairman Phone +4991174053-361 SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 21.06.2016 09:23, Richard Brown wrote: Hi,
In advance of Thursdays openSUSE Conference Workshop on the topic[1], I'd like to share with you all what I've been working on for replacing/improving software.opensuse.org
My main goals have been to reduce the technical complexity of the current page (which often struggles under the heavy load of release days) while also doing a much better job of reflecting the offerings provided by the opensuse project and providing clearer help to users.
The first thing that jumps on me: What actually *is* 'openSUSE'? There is no mentioning like "download worlds best Linux distro here". I realize that the old page does not have it too, but maybe one sentence would be cool.
You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in the top right hand corner).
This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be de-emphasising the software search,
That is interesting. I personally think that the package searching and installation is one of openSUSE's strength, so it will be interesting to hear your thoughts about that, as I wouldn't have expected that that needs to be de-emphasised. regards, Klaas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 21 June 2016 09:34:31 Klaas Freitag wrote:
On 21.06.2016 09:23, Richard Brown wrote:
You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in the top right hand corner).
This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be de-emphasising the software search,
That is interesting. I personally think that the package searching and installation is one of openSUSE's strength, so it will be interesting to hear your thoughts about that, as I wouldn't have expected that that needs to be de-emphasised.
This actually might be a good opportunity to make use of some metrics. With the download page we have one of the rare entry points where we can actually measure what users are doing and what effect changes have. So it might be worthwhile to on one hand define what metrics are important for us and measure how we are doing with them. -- Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Cornelius Schumacher [21.06.2016 22:17]:
On Tuesday 21 June 2016 09:34:31 Klaas Freitag wrote:
On 21.06.2016 09:23, Richard Brown wrote:
You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in the top right hand corner).
This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be de-emphasising the software search,
That is interesting. I personally think that the package searching and installation is one of openSUSE's strength, so it will be interesting to hear your thoughts about that, as I wouldn't have expected that that needs to be de-emphasised.
This actually might be a good opportunity to make use of some metrics. With the download page we have one of the rare entry points where we can actually measure what users are doing and what effect changes have. So it might be worthwhile to on one hand define what metrics are important for us and measure how we are doing with them.
Hm, what is "the download page"? I (of course I can speak only for myself here) often use software.opensuse.org to check if a certain package is available at all and if so, in which repo. Most of the time, my next activity is "zypper ar -f ...", So I rarely use the download possiblities of software.opensuse.org. Maybe that is because I used webpin before - this great software found all the packages as well, and I had to decide to add the respective repo or use my browser and download the packages directly. I prefer creating the repo file, since in that case I usually get updates of the softwaren and its dependencies as well. Since I'm rarely the only one with a brain twisted like that ;) you may not have the real picture for the importance of software.opensuse.org when you count the downloads only - you simply do not know what the searches do with the results. Regards Werner --
On 06/23/2016 05:17 AM, Werner Flamme wrote:
Cornelius Schumacher [21.06.2016 22:17]:
On Tuesday 21 June 2016 09:34:31 Klaas Freitag wrote:
On 21.06.2016 09:23, Richard Brown wrote:
You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in the top right hand corner).
This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be de-emphasising the software search,
That is interesting. I personally think that the package searching and installation is one of openSUSE's strength, so it will be interesting to hear your thoughts about that, as I wouldn't have expected that that needs to be de-emphasised.
This actually might be a good opportunity to make use of some metrics. With the download page we have one of the rare entry points where we can actually measure what users are doing and what effect changes have. So it might be worthwhile to on one hand define what metrics are important for us and measure how we are doing with them.
Hm, what is "the download page"? I (of course I can speak only for myself here) often use software.opensuse.org to check if a certain package is available at all and if so, in which repo. Most of the time, my next activity is "zypper ar -f ...", So I rarely use the download possiblities of software.opensuse.org.
Maybe that is because I used webpin before - this great software found all the packages as well, and I had to decide to add the respective repo or use my browser and download the packages directly. I prefer creating the repo file, since in that case I usually get updates of the softwaren and its dependencies as well.
Since I'm rarely the only one with a brain twisted like that ;) you may not have the real picture for the importance of software.opensuse.org when you count the downloads only - you simply do not know what the searches do with the results.
Regards Werner
Yeah. It _was_ _great_. Webpin worked for short time and then was broken for a long time. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-06-23 21:51, Roman Bysh wrote:
Yeah. It _was_ _great_. Webpin worked for short time and then was broken for a long time.
It still does work, and fails sometimes. cer@Telcontar:~> webpin webpin Query URL: http://webpinstant.com/ws/searchservice/Search/Simple/openSUSE_131/webpin 3 results (2 packages) found for "webpin" in openSUSE_131 * webpin: Command-Line Client for the openSUSE Package Search Web Service - 1.2.4.1.1 [openSUSE:Tools] * openSUSE-release: openSUSE - 13.1.1.10 [suse-oss] - 13.1.1.1 [home:smilart:SUSE_13.1] cer@Telcontar:~> -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 06/23/2016 04:37 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2016-06-23 21:51, Roman Bysh wrote:
Yeah. It _was_ _great_. Webpin worked for short time and then was broken for a long time.
It still does work, and fails sometimes.
cer@Telcontar:~> webpin webpin Query URL: http://webpinstant.com/ws/searchservice/Search/Simple/openSUSE_131/webpin 3 results (2 packages) found for "webpin" in openSUSE_131 * webpin: Command-Line Client for the openSUSE Package Search Web Service - 1.2.4.1.1 [openSUSE:Tools] * openSUSE-release: openSUSE - 13.1.1.10 [suse-oss] - 13.1.1.1 [home:smilart:SUSE_13.1] cer@Telcontar:~>
Hey. It works! It's the gui webpin that stopped working. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
23.06.2016 23:37, Carlos E. R. пишет:
On 2016-06-23 21:51, Roman Bysh wrote:
Yeah. It _was_ _great_. Webpin worked for short time and then was broken for a long time.
It still does work,
It offers neither Leap nor Tumbleweed, so while it works it becomes less and less useful.
and fails sometimes.
cer@Telcontar:~> webpin webpin Query URL: http://webpinstant.com/ws/searchservice/Search/Simple/openSUSE_131/webpin 3 results (2 packages) found for "webpin" in openSUSE_131 * webpin: Command-Line Client for the openSUSE Package Search Web Service - 1.2.4.1.1 [openSUSE:Tools] * openSUSE-release: openSUSE - 13.1.1.10 [suse-oss] - 13.1.1.1 [home:smilart:SUSE_13.1] cer@Telcontar:~>
Andrei Borzenkov [24.06.2016 05:40]:
23.06.2016 23:37, Carlos E. R. пишет:
On 2016-06-23 21:51, Roman Bysh wrote:
Yeah. It _was_ _great_. Webpin worked for short time and then was broken for a long time.
It still does work,
It offers neither Leap nor Tumbleweed, so while it works it becomes less and less useful.
Exactly. This is what my webpin from the openSUSE:Tools repo says: # webpin webpin ERROR: invalid or unsupported value for distribution version: "42.1" Valid values are: 12.3, 12.2, 12.1, Factory, latest, 13.2, factory, 13.1 Of course it is possible to change the "distVersionMap" in file const.py, but to which value? And does the database exist that is needed by webpin? The mappings 'openSUSE_421', 'openSUSE_42.1', 'openSUSE_Leap_421' and 'openSUSE_42.1' do not work. For Tumbleweed, '-d Factory' might work, but it doesn't: # webpin -d Factory webpin FAILED: received error from server: 404 Not Found Same result for '-d latest'. Latest commit in the source repo at <https://github.com/pbleser/webpin> was nearly 3 years ago, and it ends with oS 12.3 there :( Sigh. Werner --
On 2016-06-24 12:34, Werner Flamme wrote:
Andrei Borzenkov [24.06.2016 05:40]:
It offers neither Leap nor Tumbleweed, so while it works it becomes less and less useful.
Exactly. This is what my webpin from the openSUSE:Tools repo says:
Oh :-( ...
Same result for '-d latest'.
Latest commit in the source repo at <https://github.com/pbleser/webpin> was nearly 3 years ago, and it ends with oS 12.3 there :(
Sigh.
Sigh. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Dne pátek 24. června 2016 12:34:53 CEST, Werner Flamme napsal(a):
Andrei Borzenkov [24.06.2016 05:40]:
23.06.2016 23:37, Carlos E. R. пишет:
On 2016-06-23 21:51, Roman Bysh wrote:
Yeah. It _was_ _great_. Webpin worked for short time and then was broken for a long time.>> It still does work,
It offers neither Leap nor Tumbleweed, so while it works it becomes less and less useful.
Exactly. This is what my webpin from the openSUSE:Tools repo says:
# webpin webpin ERROR: invalid or unsupported value for distribution version: "42.1" Valid values are: 12.3, 12.2, 12.1, Factory, latest, 13.2, factory, 13.1
Of course it is possible to change the "distVersionMap" in file const.py, but to which value? And does the database exist that is needed by webpin? The mappings 'openSUSE_421', 'openSUSE_42.1', 'openSUSE_Leap_421' and 'openSUSE_42.1' do not work.
For Tumbleweed, '-d Factory' might work, but it doesn't: # webpin -d Factory webpin FAILED: received error from server: 404 Not Found
Same result for '-d latest'.
Latest commit in the source repo at <https://github.com/pbleser/webpin> was nearly 3 years ago, and it ends with oS 12.3 there :(
It was great tool and it'd be perfect to have it back... -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux https://www.opensuse.org/ https://trapa.cz/
On 2016-06-24 12:43, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
It was great tool and it'd be perfect to have it back...
Indeed. Great tool. The biggest issue is the server. Who hosts and maintains it. It is possible that the client was not updated because the server can't cope. Just a guess, because it happened before. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Vojtěch Zeisek <vojtech.zeisek@opensuse.org> wrote:
Dne pátek 24. června 2016 12:34:53 CEST, Werner Flamme napsal(a):
Andrei Borzenkov [24.06.2016 05:40]:
23.06.2016 23:37, Carlos E. R. пишет:
On 2016-06-23 21:51, Roman Bysh wrote:
Yeah. It _was_ _great_. Webpin worked for short time and then was broken for a long time.>> It still does work,
It offers neither Leap nor Tumbleweed, so while it works it becomes less and less useful.
Exactly. This is what my webpin from the openSUSE:Tools repo says:
# webpin webpin ERROR: invalid or unsupported value for distribution version: "42.1" Valid values are: 12.3, 12.2, 12.1, Factory, latest, 13.2, factory, 13.1
It does not matter what webpin *tool* says, but what webpinstant web site offers. We can always fix tool.
Of course it is possible to change the "distVersionMap" in file const.py, but to which value? And does the database exist that is needed by webpin? The mappings 'openSUSE_421', 'openSUSE_42.1', 'openSUSE_Leap_421' and 'openSUSE_42.1' do not work.
For Tumbleweed, '-d Factory' might work, but it doesn't: # webpin -d Factory webpin FAILED: received error from server: 404 Not Found
Same result for '-d latest'.
Latest commit in the source repo at <https://github.com/pbleser/webpin> was nearly 3 years ago, and it ends with oS 12.3 there :(
I volunteer to maintain it if someone gives me permissions. I think I tried to contact author but got no response. I already patched OBS version with support for newer releases, but we can do only as much as search engine itself. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 24.06.2016 um 13:11 schrieb Andrei Borzenkov:
On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Vojtěch Zeisek <vojtech.zeisek@opensuse.org> wrote:
Dne pátek 24. června 2016 12:34:53 CEST, Werner Flamme napsal(a):
Andrei Borzenkov [24.06.2016 05:40]:
23.06.2016 23:37, Carlos E. R. пишет:
On 2016-06-23 21:51, Roman Bysh wrote:
Yeah. It _was_ _great_. Webpin worked for short time and then was broken for a long time.>> It still does work,
It offers neither Leap nor Tumbleweed, so while it works it becomes less and less useful.
Exactly. This is what my webpin from the openSUSE:Tools repo says:
# webpin webpin ERROR: invalid or unsupported value for distribution version: "42.1" Valid values are: 12.3, 12.2, 12.1, Factory, latest, 13.2, factory, 13.1
It does not matter what webpin *tool* says, but what webpinstant web site offers. We can always fix tool.
Of course it is possible to change the "distVersionMap" in file const.py, but to which value? And does the database exist that is needed by webpin? The mappings 'openSUSE_421', 'openSUSE_42.1', 'openSUSE_Leap_421' and 'openSUSE_42.1' do not work.
For Tumbleweed, '-d Factory' might work, but it doesn't: # webpin -d Factory webpin FAILED: received error from server: 404 Not Found
Same result for '-d latest'.
Latest commit in the source repo at <https://github.com/pbleser/webpin> was nearly 3 years ago, and it ends with oS 12.3 there :(
I volunteer to maintain it if someone gives me permissions. I think I tried to contact author but got no response. I already patched OBS version with support for newer releases, but we can do only as much as search engine itself.
2 years ago I was in contact with the website admin. I´ll try to contact him again and will point him to the discussion. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
24.06.2016 15:38, tomtomme пишет:
Am 24.06.2016 um 13:11 schrieb Andrei Borzenkov:
On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Vojtěch Zeisek <vojtech.zeisek@opensuse.org> wrote:
Dne pátek 24. června 2016 12:34:53 CEST, Werner Flamme napsal(a):
Andrei Borzenkov [24.06.2016 05:40]:
23.06.2016 23:37, Carlos E. R. пишет:
On 2016-06-23 21:51, Roman Bysh wrote: > Yeah. It _was_ _great_. Webpin worked for short time and then was > broken for a long time.>> It still does work,
It offers neither Leap nor Tumbleweed, so while it works it becomes less and less useful.
Exactly. This is what my webpin from the openSUSE:Tools repo says:
# webpin webpin ERROR: invalid or unsupported value for distribution version: "42.1" Valid values are: 12.3, 12.2, 12.1, Factory, latest, 13.2, factory, 13.1
It does not matter what webpin *tool* says, but what webpinstant web site offers. We can always fix tool.
Of course it is possible to change the "distVersionMap" in file const.py, but to which value? And does the database exist that is needed by webpin? The mappings 'openSUSE_421', 'openSUSE_42.1', 'openSUSE_Leap_421' and 'openSUSE_42.1' do not work.
For Tumbleweed, '-d Factory' might work, but it doesn't: # webpin -d Factory webpin FAILED: received error from server: 404 Not Found
Same result for '-d latest'.
Latest commit in the source repo at <https://github.com/pbleser/webpin> was nearly 3 years ago, and it ends with oS 12.3 there :(
I volunteer to maintain it if someone gives me permissions. I think I tried to contact author but got no response. I already patched OBS version with support for newer releases, but we can do only as much as search engine itself.
2 years ago I was in contact with the website admin. I´ll try to contact him again and will point him to the discussion.
I contacted myself and here is the response: --><-- I've added Leap 42.1 & 42.2. Don't know whether to continue it though, it never had much usage. --><-- Go figure ... I'll submit SR for client. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-06-26 06:57, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
--><-- I've added Leap 42.1 & 42.2.
Don't know whether to continue it though, it never had much usage. --><--
Go figure ... I'll submit SR for client.
Thanks :-) Will you update the 13.1 client, too? Just curious. The one I use baulks at the 42.1 string. cer@Telcontar:~> webpin --dist=42.1 webpin ERROR: invalid or unsupported value for distribution version: "42.1" Valid values are: 12.3, 12.2, 12.1, Factory, latest, 13.2, factory, 13.1 cer@Telcontar:~> -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. [26.06.2016 09:01]:
On 2016-06-26 06:57, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
--><-- I've added Leap 42.1 & 42.2.
Don't know whether to continue it though, it never had much usage. --><--
Go figure ... I'll submit SR for client.
Thanks :-)
Will you update the 13.1 client, too? Just curious. The one I use baulks at the 42.1 string.
cer@Telcontar:~> webpin --dist=42.1 webpin ERROR: invalid or unsupported value for distribution version: "42.1" Valid values are: 12.3, 12.2, 12.1, Factory, latest, 13.2, factory, 13.1 cer@Telcontar:~>
The accepted values can be found in the variable "distVersionMap" in file /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/webpin/const.py :) You can add a line '42.1': 'openSUSE_Leap_421', which will bring nice results sometimes. # webpin -d 42.1 cups-pdf 20 results (11 packages) found for "cups-pdf" in openSUSE_Leap_421 [...] # webpin -d 42.1 coreutils FAILED: received error from server: 404 Not Found # webpin -d 42.1 webpin No results found for "webpin" in openSUSE_Leap_421 Hm. OK, let's say work in progress ;) Werner --
On 2016-06-27 08:34, Werner Flamme wrote:
Carlos E. R. [26.06.2016 09:01]:
The accepted values can be found in the variable "distVersionMap" in file /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/webpin/const.py :)
You can add a line '42.1': 'openSUSE_Leap_421',
which will bring nice results sometimes.
Isn’t it nice, interpreted language code? :-)
# webpin -d 42.1 cups-pdf 20 results (11 packages) found for "cups-pdf" in openSUSE_Leap_421 [...]
# webpin -d 42.1 coreutils FAILED: received error from server: 404 Not Found
# webpin -d 42.1 webpin No results found for "webpin" in openSUSE_Leap_421
Hm. OK, let's say work in progress ;)
The database must be building itself. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 9:34 AM, Werner Flamme <werner.flamme@ufz.de> wrote:
# webpin -d 42.1 cups-pdf 20 results (11 packages) found for "cups-pdf" in openSUSE_Leap_421 [...]
# webpin -d 42.1 coreutils FAILED: received error from server: 404 Not Found
This works from web GUI on webpinstant.com. Looks like it is using different search, but I am not familiar with JScript enough to understand what this page does.
# webpin -d 42.1 webpin No results found for "webpin" in openSUSE_Leap_421
Hm. OK, let's say work in progress ;)
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Andrei Borzenkov [27.06.2016 13:42]:
On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 9:34 AM, Werner Flamme <werner.flamme@ufz.de> wrote:
# webpin -d 42.1 cups-pdf 20 results (11 packages) found for "cups-pdf" in openSUSE_Leap_421 [...]
# webpin -d 42.1 coreutils FAILED: received error from server: 404 Not Found
This works from web GUI on webpinstant.com. Looks like it is using different search, but I am not familiar with JScript enough to understand what this page does.
I can hardly imagine. Several queries work, but this one doesn't? I can get 20 results (2 packages) for "webpin -d 42.1 core", 20 results (3 packages) for "webpin -d 42.1 utils", but HTTP 404 for "webpin -d 42.1 coreutils". I expcet either (at least) the same results as "zypper se coreutils" shows or 'No results found for "coreutils" in openSUSE_Leap_421', as this is shown for "webpin -d 42.1 webpin". Maybe the database hasn't indexed everything yet. Or it doesn't even search every directory for Leap 42.1, since its name does not end with "_Leap_42.1". Nobody except the site admin knows that. Regards, Werner BTW, searchng for "deadbeef" brings a Traceback ;) --
On 06/23/2016 05:17 AM, Werner Flamme wrote:
I (of course I can speak only for myself here) often use software.opensuse.org to check if a certain package is available at all and if so, in which repo. Most of the time, my next activity is "zypper ar -f ...", So I rarely use the download possiblities of software.opensuse.org.
Same here. Actually I usually type the name of whatever I look for + "opensuse" into DuckDuckGo. The result however it 95%+ software.opensuse.org. That gives me an idea then which repo has it. /Sven -- Fingerprint: D7CA F2DB 658D 89BC 08D6 A7AA DA6E 167B 8F54 1FB6 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:23:23 +0200, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@opensuse.org> wrote:
You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
--8<--- Choosing Which Media to Download The DVD/USB Stick is typically recommended as it contains most of the packages available in the distribution and does not require a network connection during the installation. The Network CD/USB Stick is recommended for users who have limited bandwidth on their internet connections, as it will only download the packages they choose to install, which is likely to be significantly less than 4.7GB. -->8--- That sounds opposite of what I would use it for. I usually take the Net iso if I have plenty of bandwidth and the DVD is I don't, as the DVD already has most instantly available and thus doesn't need to fetch it. Can you elaborate? -- H.Merijn Brand http://tux.nl Perl Monger http://amsterdam.pm.org/ using perl5.00307 .. 5.23 porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and openSUSE http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/ http://www.test-smoke.org/ http://qa.perl.org http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/
On 21 June 2016 at 09:41, H.Merijn Brand <h.m.brand@xs4all.nl> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:23:23 +0200, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@opensuse.org> wrote:
You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
--8<--- Choosing Which Media to Download The DVD/USB Stick is typically recommended as it contains most of the packages available in the distribution and does not require a network connection during the installation.
The Network CD/USB Stick is recommended for users who have limited bandwidth on their internet connections, as it will only download the packages they choose to install, which is likely to be significantly less than 4.7GB. -->8---
That sounds opposite of what I would use it for.
I usually take the Net iso if I have plenty of bandwidth and the DVD is I don't, as the DVD already has most instantly available and thus doesn't need to fetch it.
Can you elaborate?
The DVD download takes 4.7GB and gives you far more packages on the DVD than you are likely to install The NET ISO is 100MB and will only install the packages you select when you install. This is typically somewhere between 1-2GB So for a single installation, downloading the NET ISO and using it for installation is going to save you a few GB's of downloading. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:47:22 +0200, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@opensuse.org> wrote:
On 21 June 2016 at 09:41, H.Merijn Brand <h.m.brand@xs4all.nl> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:23:23 +0200, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@opensuse.org> wrote:
You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
--8<--- Choosing Which Media to Download The DVD/USB Stick is typically recommended as it contains most of the packages available in the distribution and does not require a network connection during the installation.
The Network CD/USB Stick is recommended for users who have limited bandwidth on their internet connections, as it will only download the packages they choose to install, which is likely to be significantly less than 4.7GB. -->8---
That sounds opposite of what I would use it for.
I usually take the Net iso if I have plenty of bandwidth and the DVD is I don't, as the DVD already has most instantly available and thus doesn't need to fetch it.
Can you elaborate?
The DVD download takes 4.7GB and gives you far more packages on the DVD than you are likely to install
The NET ISO is 100MB and will only install the packages you select when you install. This is typically somewhere between 1-2GB
So for a single installation, downloading the NET ISO and using it for installation is going to save you a few GB's of downloading.
I oversaw "for a single installation" :) I usually get both ISO's on a fast connection and use the CD/DVD to install on (all) other machines. -- H.Merijn Brand http://tux.nl Perl Monger http://amsterdam.pm.org/ using perl5.00307 .. 5.23 porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and openSUSE http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/ http://www.test-smoke.org/ http://qa.perl.org http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:47 PM, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@opensuse.org> wrote:
On 21 June 2016 at 09:41, H.Merijn Brand <h.m.brand@xs4all.nl> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:23:23 +0200, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@opensuse.org> wrote:
You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
--8<--- Choosing Which Media to Download The DVD/USB Stick is typically recommended as it contains most of the packages available in the distribution and does not require a network connection during the installation.
The Network CD/USB Stick is recommended for users who have limited bandwidth on their internet connections, as it will only download the packages they choose to install, which is likely to be significantly less than 4.7GB. -->8---
That sounds opposite of what I would use it for.
I usually take the Net iso if I have plenty of bandwidth and the DVD is I don't, as the DVD already has most instantly available and thus doesn't need to fetch it.
Can you elaborate?
The DVD download takes 4.7GB and gives you far more packages on the DVD than you are likely to install
The NET ISO is 100MB and will only install the packages you select when you install. This is typically somewhere between 1-2GB
So for a single installation, downloading the NET ISO and using it for installation is going to save you a few GB's of downloading.
Well...I have to jump in for this. You guys focus on download size...which is right in theory... But remember, people who have little bandwidth usually have little download speed too. The DVD itself is huge, we both know. But I can download it with bitorrent, from mirrors, or even from famous local IT portal. During that time, I can watch videos, listen music and etc. Then 5 days isn't that hard... The NET is small, but after downloading and burning to a USB stick, you have to wait for the download of packages at, well, nearly a black screen. It's a waste of time even it will be just an hour. No matter to say, days. And in some area of the world, a direct download from NBG is ultra slow, especially for small files. it means, you have to wait hours to see YaST actually come out. Trust me, as a newbie, he will just keep asking on forum, why NET iso doesn't work and give me black screen? And I'll just tell him, download DVD. I'll not tell him to wait. Because for myself with a 4MB bandwidth, I can't use NET iso either. It took 6 hours and I still didn't see YaST. So the key of the problem is never download size, but how user friendly, how smooth, and how convinent the installation process will be. For people with ultra fast download speed, NET is better than DVD. But for people with little speed, down them all and install might be a good idea. So I suggest we keep the focus on the "speed" that a user can get. Marguerite -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 2016-06-21 10:23, Marguerite Su wrote:
And in some area of the world, a direct download from NBG is ultra slow, especially for small files. it means, you have to wait hours to see YaST actually come out.
So in other words, the yast2 installer really only needs a cgi/cpio service in the style of what osc --download-api-only makes use of :-) Then there will be just one TCP connection and be much better. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2016-06-21 at 16:23 +0800, Marguerite Su wrote:
Well...I have to jump in for this.
You guys focus on download size...which is right in theory...
But remember, people who have little bandwidth usually have little download speed too.
You are absolutely right: to use the net install media you need a fast Internet connection. There are several criteria. For instance, if Internet is capped, you use the net install media, and installation fails, forcing a repeat, there is a problem. On the other hand, downloading the full DVD, then having to download several gigabytes of updates, is a problem with limited internet. But it is not if it is just slow. Someone could perhaps design a decission tree to tell people which method is better in their cases. :-? Either that, or a text explaining better pros and cons of each method. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAldpMnsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UKigCfViKFMc01qS3+6uV6HGOYH6Od uTAAnAqdawaxXVzSN+Sr8kiB7lAW3DJB =uQ5q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/21/2016 04:23 AM, Marguerite Su wrote:
Because for myself with a 4MB bandwidth, I can't use NET iso either.
Since we are trading user stories... I am on a rural DSL connection that tops out around 3 Mbps. It's all I can get here. I share that connection with my wife and son both avid streaming video users. Doing an install with the NET installer is super slow and destroys the peace in the house. ;-) Having a download manager grab the full DVD ISO while we are all asleep and installing from that the next day is a much better experience for me and everyone else in the house. So while counter-intuitive, I'd side with: if you have a slow connection, you are better of downloading the DVD image over night or from another location that gives you better bandwidth. More reasons for the DVD image: - multiple installs (same or different machine) - trying it in VM first Reason for NET installer: - single install - sure exactly what I need and that it will work * *) If there is any chance that I won't like the result of the first install and there will be a second run at it (different partitioning, default window manager etc) I am better of having the DVD ISO /Sven -- Fingerprint: D7CA F2DB 658D 89BC 08D6 A7AA DA6E 167B 8F54 1FB6 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 26/06/2016 2:35 PM, Sven Semmler wrote:
So while counter-intuitive, I'd side with: if you have a slow connection, you are better of downloading the DVD image over night or from another location that gives you better bandwidth.
Same here. Also I can download a DVD image on my faster work connection and and use it at home. -- Lindsay Mathieson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/26/2016 02:40 AM, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
On 26/06/2016 2:35 PM, Sven Semmler wrote:
So while counter-intuitive, I'd side with: if you have a slow connection, you are better of downloading the DVD image over night or from another location that gives you better bandwidth.
Same here. Also I can download a DVD image on my faster work connection and and use it at home.
Be careful using the connection at work, it could be considered theft of company property (the itty bitty bandwidth used). -- Ken linux since 1994 S.u.S.E./openSUSE since 1996 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 26/06/2016 11:52 PM, Ken Schneider wrote:
Be careful using the connection at work, it could be considered theft of company property (the itty bitty bandwidth used).
-- Ken
I consulted with our de facto admin first, I said it was ok :) -- Lindsay Mathieson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On dimanche, 26 juin 2016 00.35:07 h CEST Sven Semmler wrote:
On 06/21/2016 04:23 AM, Marguerite Su wrote:
Because for myself with a 4MB bandwidth, I can't use NET iso either.
Since we are trading user stories... I am on a rural DSL connection that tops out around 3 Mbps. It's all I can get here. I share that connection with my wife and son both avid streaming video users.
Doing an install with the NET installer is super slow and destroys the peace in the house. ;-)
Having a download manager grab the full DVD ISO while we are all asleep and installing from that the next day is a much better experience for me and everyone else in the house.
So while counter-intuitive, I'd side with: if you have a slow connection, you are better of downloading the DVD image over night or from another location that gives you better bandwidth.
More reasons for the DVD image:
- multiple installs (same or different machine) - trying it in VM first
Reason for NET installer:
- single install - sure exactly what I need and that it will work *
*) If there is any chance that I won't like the result of the first install and there will be a second run at it (different partitioning, default window manager etc) I am better of having the DVD ISO
/Sven
I'm not 100% sure about the false feeling of peace in house. Actual stats of ftp tree 19G distribution/leap/42.1/repo/oss/ 20G update/leap/42.1/oss/ So after 6 months there's also a big bunch of updates you will have to download anyway. -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:41 AM, H.Merijn Brand <h.m.brand@xs4all.nl> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:23:23 +0200, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@opensuse.org> wrote:
You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
--8<--- Choosing Which Media to Download The DVD/USB Stick is typically recommended as it contains most of the packages available in the distribution and does not require a network connection during the installation.
The Network CD/USB Stick is recommended for users who have limited bandwidth on their internet connections, as it will only download the packages they choose to install, which is likely to be significantly less than 4.7GB. -->8---
That sounds opposite of what I would use it for.
I usually take the Net iso if I have plenty of bandwidth and the DVD is I don't, as the DVD already has most instantly available and thus doesn't need to fetch it.
Can you elaborate?
I use the Net iso only if: - I don't have a pre-downloaded DVD handy - I'm in a time crunch to initiate an install - my internet pipe is slow. I can download the Net iso and burn it quickly, then do the interactive install steps and let the needed packages download over the next few hours. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/21/2016 11:11 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:41 AM, H.Merijn Brand <h.m.brand@xs4all.nl> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:23:23 +0200, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@opensuse.org> wrote:
You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/ --8<--- Choosing Which Media to Download The DVD/USB Stick is typically recommended as it contains most of the packages available in the distribution and does not require a network connection during the installation.
The Network CD/USB Stick is recommended for users who have limited bandwidth on their internet connections, as it will only download the packages they choose to install, which is likely to be significantly less than 4.7GB. -->8---
That sounds opposite of what I would use it for.
I usually take the Net iso if I have plenty of bandwidth and the DVD is I don't, as the DVD already has most instantly available and thus doesn't need to fetch it.
Can you elaborate? I use the Net iso only if:
- I don't have a pre-downloaded DVD handy - I'm in a time crunch to initiate an install - my internet pipe is slow.
I can download the Net iso and burn it quickly, then do the interactive install steps and let the needed packages download over the next few hours.
Greg
- might it be helpful to use with install-option " autoyast=usb://path " after making " autoinst.xml " with " yast2 clone_system " ? regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Richard Brown wrote:
Hi all,
In advance of Thursdays openSUSE Conference Workshop on the topic[1], I'd like to share with you all what I've been working on for replacing/improving software.opensuse.org
My main goals have been to reduce the technical complexity of the current page (which often struggles under the heavy load of release days) while also doing a much better job of reflecting the offerings provided by the opensuse project and providing clearer help to users.
You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
First thought - it's significantly faster than www.opensuse.org, but otherwise quite similar, so similar it's difficult to see any real difference? Maybe you/we need to define the difference between www.opensuse.org and softare.opensuse.org? With your proposal, they both look like shop windows.
The main thing that is desperately needed before I feel this new site is viable as a replacement for software.opensuse.org is a translation solution. I have been evaluating Polyglot [2] which seems to be a viable solution, but due to limited time and an inability to translate any other language, I would really like help getting it implemented.
What is the current site using? Does it need replacing/reinventing? One comment mostly wrt the current site - in FF on a standard 24" desktop monitor, I have to scroll down to notice the language option. I think that ought to be right up at the top. Maybe with the three most common plus "Others" listed. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (17.6°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/21/2016 09:47 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Richard Brown wrote:
Hi all,
In advance of Thursdays openSUSE Conference Workshop on the topic[1], I'd like to share with you all what I've been working on for replacing/improving software.opensuse.org
My main goals have been to reduce the technical complexity of the current page (which often struggles under the heavy load of release days) while also doing a much better job of reflecting the offerings provided by the opensuse project and providing clearer help to users.
You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
First thought - it's significantly faster than www.opensuse.org, but otherwise quite similar, so similar it's difficult to see any real difference?
Maybe you/we need to define the difference between www.opensuse.org and softare.opensuse.org? With your proposal, they both look like shop windows.
After my talk at oSC'16 somebody asked me why all those small projects living under the openSUSE umbrella (like OSEM) were so hidden within the openSUSE project. Today somebody suggested me that www.opensuse.org should be more focused in presenting the community (and ALL the related project) than in the distro itself. For example, no explanation of TW vs Leap there. Just saying that our main "product" is our family of Linux distributions and linking to software.o.o for more details. Then, we can have all those explanations about TW vs Leap in software.o.o, in which people is already actively trying to download the distro. That would make the goal of every page more obvious. Does it make sense? Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/27/2016 01:51 PM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
On 06/21/2016 09:47 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Richard Brown wrote:
Hi all,
In advance of Thursdays openSUSE Conference Workshop on the topic[1], I'd like to share with you all what I've been working on for replacing/improving software.opensuse.org
My main goals have been to reduce the technical complexity of the current page (which often struggles under the heavy load of release days) while also doing a much better job of reflecting the offerings provided by the opensuse project and providing clearer help to users.
You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
First thought - it's significantly faster than www.opensuse.org, but otherwise quite similar, so similar it's difficult to see any real difference?
Maybe you/we need to define the difference between www.opensuse.org and softare.opensuse.org? With your proposal, they both look like shop windows.
After my talk at oSC'16 somebody asked me why all those small projects living under the openSUSE umbrella (like OSEM) were so hidden within the openSUSE project.
Sorry, I forgot the link https://events.opensuse.org/conference/oSC16/program/proposal/908
Today somebody suggested me that www.opensuse.org should be more focused in presenting the community (and ALL the related project) than in the distro itself. For example, no explanation of TW vs Leap there. Just saying that our main "product" is our family of Linux distributions and linking to software.o.o for more details.
Then, we can have all those explanations about TW vs Leap in software.o.o, in which people is already actively trying to download the distro.
That would make the goal of every page more obvious.
Does it make sense?
Cheers.
-- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 27 June 2016 at 13:51, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de> wrote:
On 06/21/2016 09:47 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Richard Brown wrote:
Hi all,
In advance of Thursdays openSUSE Conference Workshop on the topic[1], I'd like to share with you all what I've been working on for replacing/improving software.opensuse.org
My main goals have been to reduce the technical complexity of the current page (which often struggles under the heavy load of release days) while also doing a much better job of reflecting the offerings provided by the opensuse project and providing clearer help to users.
You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
First thought - it's significantly faster than www.opensuse.org, but otherwise quite similar, so similar it's difficult to see any real difference?
Maybe you/we need to define the difference between www.opensuse.org and softare.opensuse.org? With your proposal, they both look like shop windows.
After my talk at oSC'16 somebody asked me why all those small projects living under the openSUSE umbrella (like OSEM) were so hidden within the openSUSE project.
Today somebody suggested me that www.opensuse.org should be more focused in presenting the community (and ALL the related project) than in the distro itself. For example, no explanation of TW vs Leap there. Just saying that our main "product" is our family of Linux distributions and linking to software.o.o for more details.
Then, we can have all those explanations about TW vs Leap in software.o.o, in which people is already actively trying to download the distro.
That would make the goal of every page more obvious.
Does it make sense?
To me, yes Seems like a good evolution of the www.opensuse.org page, which has certainly gone in the direction of trying to better reflect everything we're doing (and everything you talked about at oSC), not just the distros. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hello Dne úterý 21. června 2016 9:23:23 CEST, Richard Brown napsal(a):
In advance of Thursdays openSUSE Conference Workshop on the topic[1], I'd like to share with you all what I've been working on for replacing/improving software.opensuse.org
Myself, I'm fairly happy with the current version. The only thing I dislike little bit is a list of searched software.
My main goals have been to reduce the technical complexity of the current page (which often struggles under the heavy load of release days) while also doing a much better job of reflecting the offerings provided by the opensuse project and providing clearer help to users.
Why do users typically go to web to search of packages? Because they do not find the package in the main repository via YaST/zypper and I'd consider as very wrong to hide package search. Rather make better handling of YMP files and “1-click install”.
This email is a 'RFC' in two senses - not only am I keen to see Comments on the progress so far, but I would greatly appreciate Commits to improve what I have so far before this goes into production.
I'm sorry I'm unable to help with coding. Few my comments: 1) There is missing introduction of what openSUSE is and why to download. 2) I see section "Chosing which Distribution to Download” on the front page as unneeded repetition - there is short introduction in the table above (OK, could be bit longer, but never mind) and more detailed description should be on next pages. 3) From the page I don't see difference between Testing and TW. This is little bit confusing. 4) I know it is not translated yet, but I see as very important to have some language switcher on very well visible place (e.g. top-right corner). 5) Otherwise I like the concept, I'd just appreciate also links to documentation.
The main thing that is desperately needed before I feel this new site is viable as a replacement for software.opensuse.org is a translation solution. I have been evaluating Polyglot [2] which seems to be a viable solution, but due to limited time and an inability to translate any other language, I would really like help getting it implemented.
Why not to use Weblate https://l10n.opensuse.org/ ? I'll repeat the above statement, unlike www.opensuse.org, we should really place here language switcher on immediately visible place.
You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in the top right hand corner).
This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be de-emphasising the software search, and in addition to my personal opinion I am hopeful that Thursdays workshop will open doors to other solutions to the problems with the current package search.
I must politely disagree. I understand and respect willing of stability of the “main” distribution by not using any 3rd party pacakges (not even from OBS), but as You are talking about user-centrism, the users wish a lot of packages. The packages are commonly available in OBS. I must say I haven't had any problem with packages from OBS and I consider the current warning to be enough. OK, packages from main repositry can be green, from OBS project repositories orange, from home directories red. For instance. I'd just appreciate rather table display of results with some more details (could be optional) and possibilities to filter them. IMHO, hiding of this possibility does not help to the users. I'd rather see more effort for flawless installation of OBS packages. For example, how can You get Bumblebee to work without OBS? I use a lot of packages from Science repo. I consider it as better option tha downloading and compiling wverything from home pages. Sincerely, V. -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux https://www.opensuse.org/ https://trapa.cz/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2016-06-21 at 10:11 +0200, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Myself, I'm fairly happy with the current version.
Me too.
My main goals have been to reduce the technical complexity of the current page (which often struggles under the heavy load of release days) while also doing a much better job of reflecting the offerings provided by the opensuse project and providing clearer help to users.
Why do users typically go to web to search of packages? Because they do not find the package in the main repository via YaST/zypper and I'd consider as very wrong to hide package search. Rather make better handling of YMP files and “1-click install”.
Package search is the thing I use most on that page. It is needed. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAldpNRAACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WPkACeNv8uuuP/IsyN0ZIC92NaASOc vx8An1I7g75dopeJIc/GrSkodEBKYw7z =2oKl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On úterý 21. června 2016 9:23 Richard Brown wrote:
You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in the top right hand corner).
This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be de-emphasising the software search, and in addition to my personal opinion I am hopeful that Thursdays workshop will open doors to other solutions to the problems with the current package search.
Thinking about it, package search turns out to be the only feature of software.opensuse.org I'm actually using. But as long as the link is still there, I don't mind. After all, I can bookmark the search page directly. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Dne úterý 21. června 2016 10:44:41 CEST, Michal Kubecek napsal(a):
On úterý 21. června 2016 9:23 Richard Brown wrote:
You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in the top right hand corner).
This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be de-emphasising the software search, and in addition to my personal opinion I am hopeful that Thursdays workshop will open doors to other solutions to the problems with the current package search.
Thinking about it, package search turns out to be the only feature of software.opensuse.org I'm actually using. But as long as the link is still there, I don't mind. After all, I can bookmark the search page directly.
Yes, but what would be more user-friendly? For me, directly presented search and better display of results. -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux https://www.opensuse.org/ https://trapa.cz/
On 06/21/2016 10:49 AM, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Dne úterý 21. června 2016 10:44:41 CEST, Michal Kubecek napsal(a):
On úterý 21. června 2016 9:23 Richard Brown wrote:
You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in the top right hand corner).
This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be de-emphasising the software search, and in addition to my personal opinion I am hopeful that Thursdays workshop will open doors to other solutions to the problems with the current package search.
Thinking about it, package search turns out to be the only feature of software.opensuse.org I'm actually using. But as long as the link is still there, I don't mind. After all, I can bookmark the search page directly.
Yes, but what would be more user-friendly? For me, directly presented search and better display of results.
We welcome everybody interested in improving the page at https://events.opensuse.org/conference/oSC16/program/proposal/788 Cheers -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 21 June 2016 12:38:59 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
On 06/21/2016 10:49 AM, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Dne úterý 21. června 2016 10:44:41 CEST, Michal Kubecek napsal(a):
On úterý 21. června 2016 9:23 Richard Brown wrote:
You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in the top right hand corner).
This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be de-emphasising the software search, and in addition to my personal opinion I am hopeful that Thursdays workshop will open doors to other solutions to the problems with the current package search.
Thinking about it, package search turns out to be the only feature of software.opensuse.org I'm actually using. But as long as the link is still there, I don't mind. After all, I can bookmark the search page directly.
Yes, but what would be more user-friendly? For me, directly presented search and better display of results.
We welcome everybody interested in improving the page at https://events.opensuse.org/conference/oSC16/program/proposal/788
Maybe I can attend. My opinion on the new page (+: positive, -: negative): + The package search is still available so I am ok with that :-) + It is a clean entry point to newcomers - The font size is too huge - www.opensuse.org already does the distinction regarding Leap/Tumbleweed, the new proposal is either duplicating the content or if thought of as a replacement a waste of time to work on. Better evolute on the already existing content then reinvent (the wheel) - sponsors and links to other parts of the "community" missing -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Oliver Kurz composed on 2016-06-21 15:23 (UTC+0200):
- The font size is too huge
Actually it's to small, or too large, or just right, according to happenstance, because, like most of the of the web, including the current site, its sizes are arbitrary, specified in a "size" (18px) that has no predictable correlation to appropriate for the user's environment. Here, it's too small: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Suse/newsite201606-120.jpg The style rule you see in that screenshot equates here to 90% (18 / 20) of optimum. 100% is optimum, the size specified in browser settings as default, and thus presumptively ideal. The size in that rule shouldn't be there at all, thus leaving the base size at 100% of optimum. URLs included in the screenshot: https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/ http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/dpi-screen-window.html http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/defaultsize.html https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/css/main.css The proposal is considerably better than the old: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Suse/newsiteComp201606-168.jpg -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Tue, 2016-06-21 at 13:42 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
The proposal is considerably better than the old:
Umm... I hope I'm wrong here, but AFAIK the proposal is a replacement for https://software.opensuse.org/421/en , not https://www.opensuse.org/ as shown in your screenshot. - -- James Mason <jmason@suse.com> SUSE -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJXaa/yAAoJEBs5UYhsRJAjqBoH/2bfBX3E0bVFmGVzS9Q8ATPl VcX9ABu38qSvAH3XSSCoZCNRDQew2jf3Wv9XiG6RmMXPzJwVT951DkrZ7pmaShgn aGwDIox/iCJ/YLAnL7FD5Il1QIiOEbxDaSWkN4beqHHBUwuja6mXMgmwa96WXsew QuoRjvvR6NFoIoce8d2DdnuE0i1L7tHibLqlDvqpHd5UTwJwnhr1y3hxiAHpcjFy uKK9EYZ01ixDEfx1pRr8hCX/W/nAJCEzKJ94yHoTzHG7DZSyEa1vHrMWCI1gMZXO GwX1K8L0fYItClaqQqVJaIVByzENwasVQaGIJgvOwhYS8kTPPdIIg7F+3bl1hG0= =LGqT -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
James Mason composed on 2016-06-21 21:21 (UTC):
On Tue, 2016-06-21 at 13:42 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
[crucial text from my post not quoted by James, which I quoted from Oliver: "The font size is too huge"]
The proposal is considerably better than the old:
Umm... I hope I'm wrong here, but AFAIK the proposal is a replacement for https://software.opensuse.org/421/en , not https://www.opensuse.org/ as shown in your screenshot.
www.opensuse.org and sofware.opensuse.org NAICT use the same CSS. I found the content of https://software.opensuse.org/ vastly dissimilar to https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/ . Induced by the font size complaint of the post I replied to, my purpose in responding was 100% about styling, absolutely nothing to with content. Yet I found the two so void of content similarity, I found it necessary to substitute something else so as to keep focus on the difference in styling between something existing and what Richard proposed. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/22/2016 09:27 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
James Mason composed on 2016-06-21 21:21 (UTC):
On Tue, 2016-06-21 at 13:42 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
[crucial text from my post not quoted by James, which I quoted from Oliver:
"The font size is too huge"]
The proposal is considerably better than the old:
Umm... I hope I'm wrong here, but AFAIK the proposal is a replacement for https://software.opensuse.org/421/en , not https://www.opensuse.org/ as shown in your screenshot.
www.opensuse.org and sofware.opensuse.org NAICT use the same CSS. I found the content of https://software.opensuse.org/ vastly dissimilar to https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/ . Induced by the font size complaint of the post I replied to, my purpose in responding was 100% about styling, absolutely nothing to with content. Yet I found the two so void of content similarity, I found it necessary to substitute something else so as to keep focus on the difference in styling between something existing and what Richard proposed.
I plan on updating those stylesheets next week as part of openSUSE's hackweek, https://hackweek.suse.com/14/projects/1492 as they don't currently match openSUSE's branding guidelines or www.opensuse.org I can likely apply similar styling to Richards new site while i'm at it. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adeliade Australia, UTC+9:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On 2016-06-21 19:42, Felix Miata wrote:
Oliver Kurz composed on 2016-06-21 15:23 (UTC+0200):
- The font size is too huge
Actually it's to small, or too large, or just right, according to happenstance, because, like most of the of the web, including the current site, its sizes are arbitrary, specified in a "size" (18px) that has no predictable correlation to appropriate for the user's environment.
Size... I just tried it on my Android phone. The pages do not resize manually, I can not zoom in/out. Ok, they do resize, but just a tiny bit. Otherwise, download works. I do not see any language switch. I also tried the page on links, lynx, and w3m. They apparently work alright. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Michal Kubecek skreiv 21. juni 2016 10:44:
Thinking about it, package search turns out to be the only feature of software.opensuse.org I'm actually using.
Me too. I actually thought that was what it was for … The other ‘feature’ (downloading the ISO) I use at most once a year. The search feature I use all the time. For me, the non-search information is just visual noise 99.7% of the time. -- Karl Ove Hufthammer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, Am 21.06.2016 um 09:23 schrieb Richard Brown:
You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
I notice that while both Tumbleweed and Leap pages mention aarch64, only the Leap ports page has a download table for it. Is that intentional or an oversight? For ARMv7 I guess the problem will be that most users don't install via generic .iso but via board-specific JeOS images? Same for aarch64 when thinking of Raspberry Pi 3 or Pine64. Might be worth linking to the Wiki for device-specific instructions in either case? E.g., https://en.opensuse.org/Category:ARM_devices On the testing page (42.2) ports link/info was missing. Regards, Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (27)
-
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa -
Andreas Färber -
Andrei Borzenkov -
Bruno Friedmann -
Carlos E. R. -
Cornelius Schumacher -
ellanios82 -
Felix Miata -
Greg Freemyer -
H.Merijn Brand -
James Mason -
Jan Engelhardt -
Karl Ove Hufthammer -
Ken Schneider -
Klaas Freitag -
Lindsay Mathieson -
Marguerite Su -
Michal Kubecek -
Oliver Kurz -
Per Jessen -
Richard Brown -
Roman Bysh -
Simon Lees -
Sven Semmler -
tomtomme -
Vojtěch Zeisek -
Werner Flamme