On Friday 2017-09-01 10:39, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

Recently on Leap 42.3 release party in Prague, some SUSE developers were wondering which packages do people need from OBS. I don't know how far this idea goes, but some people would prefer as many packages as possible directly in Factory

No news here. People have always wanted that. And the response always was: submit to Factory. And then people suddenly fall silent. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Friday 2017-09-01 13:35, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

Dne pátek 1. září 2017 13:28:08 CEST, Jan Engelhardt napsal(a):

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On Friday 2017-09-01 10:39, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

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Recently on Leap 42.3 release party in Prague, some SUSE developers were wondering which packages do people need from OBS. I don't know how far this idea goes, but some people would prefer as many packages as possible directly in Factory

No news here. People have always wanted that. And the response always was: submit to Factory. And then people suddenly fall silent.

IMHO package maintainer/owner should do that. I don't feel to submit someone's else package to Factory...

Well, contact the maintainer, and find an agreement. If they don't care about Factory, it is still your turn. And then about the packages that are unowned/abandoned/autogenerated/, also your task :p -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 1 September 2017 at 13:59, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2017-09-01 13:48, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

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Well, contact the maintainer, and find an agreement. If they don't care about Factory, it is still your turn.

No, as a user, it is never my turn.

If that is your attitude, then I would also think that it is never your turn to talk on this mailinglist But clearly, as you're posting on this mailinglist, you think you're entitled to engage in this discussion, and I welcome that. With that same spirit I welcome, encourage, and strongly suggest you to contribute in the way Jan suggests. Anything less is a waste of electrons, first yours in the quoted email, and now mine in this response. Don't waste our collective time please. -R -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Dne pátek 1. září 2017 14:04:02 CEST, Richard Brown napsal(a):

On 1 September 2017 at 13:59, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2017-09-01 13:48, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

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Well, contact the maintainer, and find an agreement. If they don't care about Factory, it is still your turn.

No, as a user, it is never my turn.

If that is your attitude, then I would also think that it is never your turn to talk on this mailinglist

But clearly, as you're posting on this mailinglist, you think you're entitled to engage in this discussion, and I welcome that.

With that same spirit I welcome, encourage, and strongly suggest you to contribute in the way Jan suggests.

As I'm not contributing by packaging (by some other ways I do), I do bit hesitate to require more work from packagers by submitting dozens, may be hundreds of their packages from their OBS project to Factory... Also, requirements to software packages in openFATE are not super-popular, I'd say, if I can... (OK, bit long time ago I submitted several requests, nothing happened, I haven't used it recently.) -- Vojtěch Zeisek https://trapa.cz/

On 2017-09-01 14:27, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:

Op vrijdag 1 september 2017 13:59:39 CEST schreef Carlos E. R.:

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On 2017-09-01 13:48, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

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On Friday 2017-09-01 13:35, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

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Dne pátek 1. září 2017 13:28:08 CEST, Jan Engelhardt napsal(a):

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On Friday 2017-09-01 10:39, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

...

Recently on Leap 42.3 release party in Prague, some SUSE developers were wondering which packages do people need from OBS. I don't know how far this idea goes, but some people would prefer as many packages as possible directly in Factory

No news here. People have always wanted that. And the response always was: submit to Factory. And then people suddenly fall silent.

IMHO package maintainer/owner should do that. I don't feel to submit someone's else package to Factory...

Well, contact the maintainer, and find an agreement. If they don't care about Factory, it is still your turn.

No, as a user, it is never my turn.

What? You can't be serious. Would you accept this when someone would tell you it's never your turn? Come on. Get real.

No, it is never my turn to package software in factory if I don't have that skill. You can not ask me to do that. You can ask me other things. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On Fri, 2017-09-01 at 14:22 +0200, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

Dne pátek 1. září 2017 14:04:02 CEST, Richard Brown napsal(a):

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On 1 September 2017 at 13:59, Carlos E. R.

wrote:

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On 2017-09-01 13:48, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

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Well, contact the maintainer, and find an agreement. If they don't care about Factory, it is still your turn.

No, as a user, it is never my turn.

If that is your attitude, then I would also think that it is never your turn to talk on this mailinglist

But clearly, as you're posting on this mailinglist, you think you're entitled to engage in this discussion, and I welcome that.

With that same spirit I welcome, encourage, and strongly suggest you to contribute in the way Jan suggests.

As I'm not contributing by packaging (by some other ways I do), I do bit hesitate to require more work from packagers by submitting dozens, may be hundreds of their packages from their OBS project to Factory... Also, requirements to software packages in openFATE are not super-popular, I'd say, if I can... (OK, bit long time ago I submitted several requests, nothing happened, I haven't used it recently.) Hi

Actually if you just politely ask for package, and its doable, you might be surprised that people will help you/create package/get package to distribution. One of first packages that I got to TW is screenfetch and reason why I did this was either reddit or g+ discussion about packages that people are missing most often in TW (I myself actually never used screenfetch before). On the other hand, demanding behaviour as often shown by some frequent contributor to this ml is indeed very discouraging. Cheers Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Op vrijdag 1 september 2017 14:34:29 CEST schreef Carlos E. R.:

On 2017-09-01 14:27, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:

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Op vrijdag 1 september 2017 13:59:39 CEST schreef Carlos E. R.:

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On 2017-09-01 13:48, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

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On Friday 2017-09-01 13:35, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

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Dne pátek 1. září 2017 13:28:08 CEST, Jan Engelhardt napsal(a):

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On Friday 2017-09-01 10:39, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote: > Recently on Leap 42.3 release party in Prague, some SUSE developers > were > wondering which packages do people need from OBS. I don't know how > far > this > idea goes, but some people would prefer as many packages as possible > directly in Factory

No news here. People have always wanted that. And the response always was: submit to Factory. And then people suddenly fall silent.

IMHO package maintainer/owner should do that. I don't feel to submit someone's else package to Factory...

Well, contact the maintainer, and find an agreement. If they don't care about Factory, it is still your turn.

No, as a user, it is never my turn.

What? You can't be serious. Would you accept this when someone would tell you it's never your turn? Come on. Get real.

No, it is never my turn to package software in factory if I don't have that skill. You can not ask me to do that. You can ask me other things.

Yes, f.e. ask you to ask someone who has the skills, and provide her/him with all the info you've got, offer to help testing etc etc. Doing such is a thing is as much a valued contribution as the packaging itself. Please, get this "devs/packagers vs. users" kind of statements, they do not fit the way our community works. And leave out the "Ivory Tower" remarks. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Friday 2017-09-01 15:51, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

Some packages are in various OBS repositories. I have no idea how much more effort/responsibility/whatever is then required from the maintainer when the package goes from OBS project to Factory.

That, too, is a question the maintainer could easily answer you. It all begins with a little communication…

Other case is if I wish some software package, which is currently totally missing in any OBS repository. Whom to ask?

sosc maintainer devel:languages:python/python-foobarbazquuxbam If none shown, sosc meta prj devel:languages:python If still none shown or no one responds, it's a matter for the mailing list I guess. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 2017-09-01 16:27, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:

Op vrijdag 1 september 2017 14:34:29 CEST schreef Carlos E. R.:

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On 2017-09-01 14:27, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:

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Op vrijdag 1 september 2017 13:59:39 CEST schreef Carlos E. R.:

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On 2017-09-01 13:48, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

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On Friday 2017-09-01 13:35, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

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Dne pátek 1. září 2017 13:28:08 CEST, Jan Engelhardt napsal(a): > On Friday 2017-09-01 10:39, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote: >> Recently on Leap 42.3 release party in Prague, some SUSE developers >> were >> wondering which packages do people need from OBS. I don't know how >> far >> this >> idea goes, but some people would prefer as many packages as possible >> directly in Factory > > No news here. People have always wanted that. And the response always > was: submit to Factory. And then people suddenly fall silent.

IMHO package maintainer/owner should do that. I don't feel to submit someone's else package to Factory...

Well, contact the maintainer, and find an agreement. If they don't care about Factory, it is still your turn.

No, as a user, it is never my turn.

What? You can't be serious. Would you accept this when someone would tell you it's never your turn? Come on. Get real.

No, it is never my turn to package software in factory if I don't have that skill. You can not ask me to do that. You can ask me other things.

Yes, f.e. ask you to ask someone who has the skills, and provide her/him with all the info you've got, offer to help testing etc etc. Doing such is a thing is as much a valued contribution as the packaging itself. Please, get this "devs/packagers vs. users" kind of statements, they do not fit the way our community works. And leave out the "Ivory Tower" remarks.

Please, it goes both directions. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 2017-09-01 16:58, Axel Braun wrote:

Am 1. September 2017 14:34:29 MESZ schrieb "Carlos E. R." :

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On 2017-09-01 14:27, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:

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Op vrijdag 1 september 2017 13:59:39 CEST schreef Carlos E. R.:

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On 2017-09-01 13:48, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

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On Friday 2017-09-01 13:35, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

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Dne pátek 1. září 2017 13:28:08 CEST, Jan Engelhardt napsal(a): > On Friday 2017-09-01 10:39, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote: >> Recently on Leap 42.3 release party in Prague, some SUSE developers were >> wondering which packages do people need from OBS. I don't know how far >> this idea goes, but some people would prefer as many packages as possible >> directly in Factory > > No news here. People have always wanted that. And the response always > was: submit to Factory. And then people suddenly fall silent.

IMHO package maintainer/owner should do that. I don't feel to submit someone's else package to Factory...

Well, contact the maintainer, and find an agreement. If they don't care about Factory, it is still your turn.

No, as a user, it is never my turn.

What? You can't be serious. Would you accept this when someone would tell you it's never your turn? Come on. Get real.

No, it is never my turn to package software in factory if I don't have that skill. You can not ask me to do that. You can ask me other things.

Fine. But if I want desperately package xyz in Factory then I need to talk to someone or try it by myself. Packaging is not rocket science. Even i learned it....a bit

Of course! :-) However, it the package exists already in OBS (which is the case in the OP), I will not attempt the effort. Lacking the skill, I would do it very badly. That is what I meant: I'm a user, not a package or maintainer. Please don't ask me (or us users) to become one. Then they jump at me. Oh, please! If it doesn't exist at all, then I may ask the favour, or build it locally for myself. Without OBS, of course. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

Op vrijdag 1 september 2017 19:35:24 CEST schreef Carlos E. R.:

On 2017-09-01 16:27, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:

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Op vrijdag 1 september 2017 14:34:29 CEST schreef Carlos E. R.:

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On 2017-09-01 14:27, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:

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Op vrijdag 1 september 2017 13:59:39 CEST schreef Carlos E. R.:

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On 2017-09-01 13:48, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

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On Friday 2017-09-01 13:35, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote: > Dne pátek 1. září 2017 13:28:08 CEST, Jan Engelhardt napsal(a): >> On Friday 2017-09-01 10:39, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote: >>> Recently on Leap 42.3 release party in Prague, some SUSE developers >>> were >>> wondering which packages do people need from OBS. I don't know how >>> far >>> this >>> idea goes, but some people would prefer as many packages as >>> possible >>> directly in Factory >> >> No news here. People have always wanted that. And the response >> always >> was: submit to Factory. And then people suddenly fall silent. > > IMHO package maintainer/owner should do that. I don't feel to submit > someone's else package to Factory...

Well, contact the maintainer, and find an agreement. If they don't care about Factory, it is still your turn.

No, as a user, it is never my turn.

What? You can't be serious. Would you accept this when someone would tell you it's never your turn? Come on. Get real.

No, it is never my turn to package software in factory if I don't have that skill. You can not ask me to do that. You can ask me other things.

Yes, f.e. ask you to ask someone who has the skills, and provide her/him with all the info you've got, offer to help testing etc etc. Doing such is a thing is as much a valued contribution as the packaging itself. Please, get this "devs/packagers vs. users" kind of statements, they do not fit the way our community works. And leave out the "Ivory Tower" remarks.

Please, it goes both directions.

Carlos, no matter how much I appreciate your efforts to contribute/support the community and it's products ( i know we share the same loyatly towards the openSUSE Project ) , what I don't understand is the "Why" of using terms like "Ivory Tower" for,. Please also know that Richard's position is a vulnarable one: Anybody can call him { or any other representatiive / Board member ) an asshole or incompetent, yet nobody would acceot a re-rant,. IMO one of the things we, as a community are doing right, is to be frriendly towards our (new) members. Let's not spoil thart by picking individuals Please, please, please., let's keep this the warm, friendly community it's always been, give respect to anybody who deserves it. No matter what they do. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On vendredi, 1 septembre 2017 14.07:08 h CEST Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2017-09-01 14:04, Richard Brown wrote:

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On 1 September 2017 at 13:59, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2017-09-01 13:48, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

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Well, contact the maintainer, and find an agreement. If they don't care about Factory, it is still your turn.

No, as a user, it is never my turn.

If that is your attitude, then I would also think that it is never your turn to talk on this mailinglist

But clearly, as you're posting on this mailinglist, you think you're entitled to engage in this discussion, and I welcome that.

With that same spirit I welcome, encourage, and strongly suggest you to contribute in the way Jan suggests.

Anything less is a waste of electrons, first yours in the quoted email, and now mine in this response. Don't waste our collective time please.

If that is your attitude, you misunderstand the community you represent. And you misunderstand me. As a user, I have the right to communicate with those that create the software. Or do you want to live in an Ivory Tower?

I share exactly the same feeling as Richard, in the large wasted time and electrons coming from your message. And yes, each time it cost YOU as user a fix or a package ;-) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org