Re. that last bit: I love the idea to keep Leap 42.3 rolling until release. I also like that idea. It is also not so different of how 13.2 was split off Factory shortly before release with no big surprises because many

On 2017-02-02 16:34, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote: people have been using that mix already for a while. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Simon Lees wrote:

On 02/03/2017 02:29 AM, Ludwig Nussel wrote:

...

With regard to the release model I'd like to try something new. Rather than having fixed milestones with fixed submission deadlines every few weeks let's try to adopt a model similar to Tumbleweed's. Ie have snapshots released automatically based on openQA results. Nevertheless the closer we get to the release the stricter the rules for updating packages have to be. [...] It would probably still be good to have a feature freeze at some point I guess? If so it would be nice to know the date a reasonable time in advance.

Sure. I just wanted to get some thoughts on the idea before announcing deadlines already :-) Looks like so far there is either little interest or silent agreement. So let's go ahead. The time when we'd normally start Beta phase in the schedule would be mid of May, so just in time before OSC. Major version updates (if there are any) and installer changes should be completed by then. We enter RC phase in last week of June, so only bugfixes from that point on. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.com/ SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 03/14/2017 09:55 AM, cagsm wrote:

Quick inquiry into where to ask or demand

Unless you are willing to do the work yourself there is no one you can demand work from in FOSS land. There is a bugzilla that you can enter a request in, although I don't remember the URL. -- Ken Schneider -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On mardi, 14 mars 2017 16.31:18 h CET Oliver Kurz wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:55:48 CET cagsm wrote:

...

Quick inquiry into where to ask or demand for new packages or versions to be included into 42.3? On this list? Example: please upgrade shorewall package (shorewall.net) at least to the one from tumbleweed 5.0.x or better to current stable releases 5.1.x […]

anyone can create an account on build.opensuse.org and get involved. Also in general anyone can do a "submit request" which in this case would be the update from openSUSE:Factory to openSUSE:Leap:42.3 but it might be beneficial to get in contact with the maintainer of the package. Maybe there is a good reason why there has been no update already submitted. Maybe the maintainer is thankful for your reminder.

Maybe you can first test and report success and failure to the one already packaged on obs ( by myself ), I already use it on a certain of number of computers, but really nothing higly fancy. There's new package coming, and shorewall is quite hard to following (last weeks 3 releases), so choosing which one is the right one for Leap is question of chances or ... Doing Maintenance work is horribly time consuming each time, compared to keep the package almost up to date. -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 03/15/2017 02:01 AM, Oliver Kurz wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:55:48 CET cagsm wrote:

...

Quick inquiry into where to ask or demand for new packages or versions to be included into 42.3? On this list? Example: please upgrade shorewall package (shorewall.net) at least to the one from tumbleweed 5.0.x or better to current stable releases 5.1.x […]

anyone can create an account on build.opensuse.org and get involved. Also in general anyone can do a "submit request" which in this case would be the update from openSUSE:Factory to openSUSE:Leap:42.3 but it might be beneficial to get in contact with the maintainer of the package. Maybe there is a good reason why there has been no update already submitted. Maybe the maintainer is thankful for your reminder.

Anyone can, but not anyone should, you should only do that if A) You are willing to provide security / maintenance updates in Leap 42.3 as required or B) you have spoken to someone else ie the maintainer and they are happy to do this for you. Either way you should speak to the maintainer first if you are not the maintainer. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

On 03/16/2017 08:54 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 5:19 PM, Simon Lees wrote:

...

On 03/15/2017 02:01 AM, Oliver Kurz wrote:

...

On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:55:48 CET cagsm wrote:

...

Quick inquiry into where to ask or demand for new packages or versions to be included into 42.3? On this list? Example: please upgrade shorewall package (shorewall.net) at least to the one from tumbleweed 5.0.x or better to current stable releases 5.1.x […]

anyone can create an account on build.opensuse.org and get involved. Also in general anyone can do a "submit request" which in this case would be the update from openSUSE:Factory to openSUSE:Leap:42.3 but it might be beneficial to get in contact with the maintainer of the package. Maybe there is a good reason why there has been no update already submitted. Maybe the maintainer is thankful for your reminder.

Anyone can, but not anyone should, you should only do that if A) You are willing to provide security / maintenance updates in Leap 42.3 as required or B) you have spoken to someone else ie the maintainer and they are happy to do this for you. Either way you should speak to the maintainer first if you are not the maintainer.

Simon,

Correct me if I'm wrong and this is my understanding, and may not have any bearing on reality. :)

===== There is a LeapBot scanning factory and somehow making autonomous (or rule-based) decisions to send SRs from factory to Leap 42.3.

The maintainers get a review SR notice and it is in their queue.

The maintainer has to take an active step of saying OK (or similar) to the SR before it accepted into Leap 42.3

Thus maintainers of both packages and Leap 42.3 have an established workflow.

===== So you're saying that while the LeapBot can send SRs without talking to the maintainers, us humans have to first talk to the maintainer, then initiate the SR.

First time I recall being relegated to a status lower than a bot. :(

Greg

Depending on who the human is or maybe even for all humans, I don't remember how the bot works, the maintainer may not necessarily be required to review the submission if say I push one of your packages and have maintainership rights in the devel repo. In that case someone in the release team will still be required to review but maybe not the maintainer. Where as LeapBot "asks" by creating a SR that the maintainer needs to review and nothing will happen unless they say yes. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

On mercredi, 15 mars 2017 10.31:17 h CET Ludwig Nussel wrote:

cagsm wrote:

...

Quick inquiry into where to ask or demand for new packages or versions to be included into 42.3? On this list? Example: please upgrade shorewall package (shorewall.net) at least to the one from tumbleweed 5.0.x or better to current stable releases 5.1.x

There is more that I think I have in the back of my mind that I come across every now and then, e.g. more current iptables and related. Then I remember some pretty basic stuff but I cant really remember the details any more, maybe it was core utils maybe something different but basic gnu linux stuff which had been old in contrast to what I found at the official source back then. Sorry to annoy.

Quoting myself:

...

42.3 continues the 42 line of Leap and is meant to be a small service pack alike refresh. We need a smooth upgrade without surprises from 42.2 to 42.3. With that in mind I'd like to remind package maintainers that we don't have to and can not offer the latest and greatest of everything.

So if you think a package is safe to upgrade but wasn't yet, then please get in contact with the package maintainer(s).

cu Ludwig

Seems my message get flooded :-) Ludwig as Leap Leader, I've this question. For shorewall 4.6.13.4 is the last stable of 4x series (but it doesn't receive any fixes from upstream right now). There in between a 5.0 and now the new 5.1x version. Moving from 4 to 5 works (tested hopefully, at least in my usecases), but a migration of configuration is needed by admin (it is somewhat automated shorewall -a ... do most of the jobs, but a review by the firewall admin is mandatory (at least this is the advise I apply to myself). I will in few hours get the new 5.1.3 in netfilter repo. And of course I can push that to Leap (I use both of them). My question is : upgrading to such new version isn't against Leap spirit ? -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Michal Kubecek wrote:

On Wednesday, 15 March 2017 18:37 Bruno Friedmann wrote:

...

Ludwig as Leap Leader, I've this question. For shorewall 4.6.13.4 is the last stable of 4x series (but it doesn't receive any fixes from upstream right now).

There in between a 5.0 and now the new 5.1x version. Moving from 4 to 5 works (tested hopefully, at least in my usecases), but a migration of configuration is needed by admin (it is somewhat automated shorewall -a ... do most of the jobs, but a review by the firewall admin is mandatory (at least this is the advise I apply to myself).

I will in few hours get the new 5.1.3 in netfilter repo. And of course I can push that to Leap (I use both of them). My question is : upgrading to such new version isn't against Leap spirit ?

I'm not Ludwig but this is my view.

Incompatible configuration requiring (in general) manual intervention is IMHO something we should try to avoid withing Leap 42.x series whenever possible. If we don't, we lose the main advantage we have compared to the pre-Leap era. On the other hand, maintaining version abandoned by upstream isn't really desirable either.

In the end, it should be maintainer's call, IMHO, because it's the maintainer who is going to handle the fallout in either case, whether it's going to be angry users whose setups breaks on 42.2 -> 42.3 migration or having to address bugs and security issues in version no longer supported by upstream.

Well said. Sometimes upstream is friendly and keeps maintaining old stable branches if they know it's needed for a stable distribution though. So communication and good relations with upstream is valuable. On the other hand even if upstream doesn't care it doesn't mean the software falls apart. We have tons of packages where no upstream even exists anymore. Sometimes from user PoV it's actually better to live with known bugs that can be worked around rather than having to deal with new ones. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.com/ SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On mardi, 14 mars 2017 14.55:48 h CEST cagsm wrote:

Quick inquiry into where to ask or demand for new packages or versions to be included into 42.3? On this list? Example: please upgrade shorewall package (shorewall.net) at least to the one from tumbleweed 5.0.x or better to current stable releases 5.1.x

There is more that I think I have in the back of my mind that I come across every now and then, e.g. more current iptables and related. Then I remember some pretty basic stuff but I cant really remember the details any more, maybe it was core utils maybe something different but basic gnu linux stuff which had been old in contrast to what I found at the official source back then. Sorry to annoy.

TIA.

Finally, after checking with upstream Tom Eastep, and placing a warning message (beside having it in .changes and will also appear on release note) Shorewall 5.1.4.3 will be available for Leap 42.3. There's needs for upgrading the configuration, but this is mostly a one command line and shorewall should handle easily most of configuration. Hope you enjoy it, the sr is in progress in staging area now, and should arrives I guess just after next snapshot. -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org