Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. März 2017 um 22:05 Uhr Von: "Larry Finger" An: "Axel Braun" , oS-fctry Betreff: Re: [opensuse-factory] Partition proposal on new TW installation

On 03/22/2017 03:23 PM, Axel Braun wrote:

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Hello,

I did an installation of current TW on a new HD. Laptop is having 8GB RAM and a 960 GB SSD (Yes, got me a new one - Kingston this time, after Samsung Evo died 1 month after the 3yr warranty period - and Samsung proofed that they are not consumer oriented. But thats a different story...)

Partition proposal was: 2GB - Swap 40GB - btrfs root 840GB - XFS home

2GB swap with 8GB RAM does not sound healthy for hibernation - should the proposal not be at least the RAM size?

As the owner of a 1024 GB Samsung EDO 850, your report is not heartening!

On the ThinkPad-Linux mailing list, a day before, a user reported the same problem with the same disk. You may be able to mount it one more time, but afterwards you cant get anything out of a broken SSD....

Having swap be 1/4 of RAM size does seem a bit small. Memory is compressed when hibernating, thus the amount of disk space used will depend on your load, but 1/2 of RAM sounds safer.

On your system, did you mount your partitions with the noatime option? That reduces the number of disk writes. I also made the swappiness value be low.

I did it on the old disk with EXT4 - for XFS and btrfs I have not checked if this option still exists. To what did you set the swappiness? Cheers Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am Mittwoch, 22. März 2017, 22:48:10 CET schrieb Larry Finger:

On 03/22/2017 04:15 PM, Axel Braun wrote:

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Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. März 2017 um 22:05 Uhr Von: "Larry Finger" An: "Axel Braun" , oS-fctry Betreff: Re: [opensuse-factory] Partition proposal on new TW installation>> On 03/22/2017 03:23 PM, Axel Braun wrote:

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Hello,

I did an installation of current TW on a new HD. Laptop is having 8GB RAM and a 960 GB SSD (Yes, got me a new one - Kingston this time, after Samsung Evo died 1 month after the 3yr warranty period - and Samsung proofed that they are not consumer oriented. But thats a different story...)

Partition proposal was: 2GB - Swap 40GB - btrfs root 840GB - XFS home

2GB swap with 8GB RAM does not sound healthy for hibernation - should the proposal not be at least the RAM size?>> As the owner of a 1024 GB Samsung EDO 850, your report is not heartening!

On the ThinkPad-Linux mailing list, a day before, a user reported the same problem with the same disk. You may be able to mount it one more time, but afterwards you cant get anything out of a broken SSD....>

...

Having swap be 1/4 of RAM size does seem a bit small. Memory is compressed when hibernating, thus the amount of disk space used will depend on your load, but 1/2 of RAM sounds safer.

On your system, did you mount your partitions with the noatime option? That reduces the number of disk writes. I also made the swappiness value be low.

I did it on the old disk with EXT4 - for XFS and btrfs I have not checked if this option still exists. To what did you set the swappiness?

I used to have it set at 10. When I checked now, it is set to 60; however, I almost never see any swapping. Like you, I also have 8 GB of RAM.

Do you have a reference to the ThinkPad ML thread? My quick search did not find anything that looked germane.

http://mail.matrix.de/pipermail/linux-thinkpad/2017-January/052818.html HTH axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-03-22 22:05, Larry Finger wrote:

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Partition proposal was: 2GB - Swap 40GB - btrfs root 840GB - XFS home

2GB swap with 8GB RAM does not sound healthy for hibernation - should the proposal not be at least the RAM size?

There is a tick box to say that you intend to use hibernation and change the proposal accordingly. At least on Leap.

As the owner of a 1024 GB Samsung EDO 850, your report is not heartening!

On your system, did you mount your partitions with the noatime option? That reduces the number of disk writes. I also made the swappiness value be low.

Change that to "lazytime" instead. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAljTEXIACgkQja8UbcUWM1zW2wEAgYtJwKZrNSYCPpgaD87wzgQ0 hppYfg4ruBOVswMG8iQA/3eQaxynRK5VfWV6cqKqvW4A2ORCubiPhyA0nZWQeUix =WUk9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

* Patrick Shanahan [03-22-17 17:11]:

* Axel Braun [03-22-17 16:25]:

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Hello,

I did an installation of current TW on a new HD. Laptop is having 8GB RAM and a 960 GB SSD (Yes, got me a new one - Kingston this time, after Samsung Evo died 1 month after the 3yr warranty period - and Samsung proofed that they are not consumer oriented. But thats a different story...)

Partition proposal was: 2GB - Swap 40GB - btrfs root 840GB - XFS home

2GB swap with 8GB RAM does not sound healthy for hibernation - should the proposal not be at least the RAM size?

swap compared to ram has a diminishing return, the more ram, the less need for swap. *you* *can* change it, anyway.

but: free total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 37063120 6328940 13767640 53764 16966540 30181920 Swap: 0 0 0

maybe I should take the time to really read ;(. pls disregard. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-03-23 00:30, Yamaban wrote:

On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 21:23, Axel Braun wrote:

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Partition proposal was: 2GB - Swap 40GB - btrfs root 840GB - XFS home

2GB swap with 8GB RAM does not sound healthy for hibernation - should the proposal not be at least the RAM size?

Two shoutouts here:

1. You want suspend-to-disk aka hibernate? Your hibernate file or partition needs to be more than 50% of your RAM, 50%+1MB is minimum for "safe"

How do you make that figure? By estimating the compression and that buffers+cache do not need to be stored? But then, there might be already some swap in use. (I have 8 GiB RAM and 1.4 GiB of swap in use)

2. Using "Tumbleweed" with its often and big updates needs SPAAACE on the Rootfs (/)

Absolutely!

In your case, you have the space, go for minimum the double of the proposal for the rootfs, and save yourself some headaches.

Or triple. Another possibility is an extra partition, ext4, of no more than 10 GiB, used to install another Linux. For emergencies, tests, etc. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAljTFZ0ACgkQja8UbcUWM1yWSAEAgN9cw7TNLegjgAQHVZC0Mfwg g+KNpK0kO4ycPxF6A9sBAIV8oOby2xHuPbBEoPoisoYC2GPA4qTQBgbix67fhzr4 =eEMo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-03-23 01:40, Yamaban wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 01:23, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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1. You want suspend-to-disk aka hibernate? Your hibernate file or partition needs to be more than 50% of your RAM, 50%+1MB is minimum for "safe"

How do you make that figure? By estimating the compression and that buffers+cache do not need to be stored? But then, there might be already some swap in use.

(I have 8 GiB RAM and 1.4 GiB of swap in use)

It goes back to a situation with a postmortem of a failed hibernate, enough and motivation time on my hands and a series of try-and error.

Starting point was a 6GB RAM and 2GB swap machine. Anyting above 4GB RAM in real use (no buffer + cache) resulted in a failed hibernate.

Ah. I see. But it could also fail with less than 4 GB if it can not be compressed.

Solution was a up-size of the swap partiton to 3GB + 1MB which allowed safe hibernate in any situation we could test.

Curious!

The compression used seems to get 100% used RAM+swap down to 30% - 40% which then fits within the 50%+ rule for swap.

But compression surely varies with the data.

That test is about 9 month old.

YMMV, but I like to be on the safe side for the use of hibernation.

My figure has been 20% over the size of RAM, and considering that there may be already swap in use before starting hibernation (which is often the case with my computers). - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAljTG8AACgkQja8UbcUWM1wptgD8CZT71E9JQUpb1KfyL6ub+aCI o46BMLgJEgKxzFOoNnwA/ilu38kwwS2wFyKoHDReTX9btqPFXYQsbJOl811QM6P7 =ncYk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-03-23 08:10, nicholas wrote:

On Thursday, 23 March 2017 00:23:57 WET Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2017-03-23 00:30, Yamaban wrote:

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2. Using "Tumbleweed" with its often and big updates needs SPAAACE on the Rootfs (/)

Absolutely!

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In your case, you have the space, go for minimum the double of the proposal for the rootfs, and save yourself some headaches.

Or triple. this is verifiable nonsense. I have 27GB root, i have 9.5gb free, it never needs manual intervention. Given that laptops often come with limited ssd's you are creating fud for new users.

This is verified truth, from the problem reports here in this mail list and other places over several years, and using default configs. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAljTemsACgkQja8UbcUWM1w/ywD+PsLynbvpJX+YsBVCVNYyuUxx vo1h7qgbZeHGjvbWipEA/0+BDfPnZdpTTMMRfajaSu2qJ10szlqL1h+IyKkIQLTK =aqa/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Thursday, 23 March 2017 16:41:00 WET Ken Schneider - Factory wrote:

On 03/23/2017 03:34 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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This is verified truth, from the problem reports here in this mail list and other places over several years, and using default configs.

Exactly. A change of the defaults would probably make for a more positive outlook. Unless disk space is at an absolute premium why not just allocate more space ti swap and /? And if space is tight why not use a larger HDD/SSD?

disk space is often at a premium with laptops, which i assume (without data) would be most users. I see no point in spending money/invalidating my warrenty and changing my root size to accomodate misconceptions based on outdated observations when quotas where not enabled, [or the use cases of others who might want root hosted VMs etc, in which case the same 120gb? 'advice' would apply to all file systems] again running TW on 27gb root with zero invervention for 6+ months (empirical test case - not anecdote). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Yamaban wrote:

Below 60GB for the rootfs you risk a filled up btrfs, balance and quota issues, need for often and manual maintainance of the fs and so on.

I second that. My TW / has 41GB, and I'm permanently running snapper cleanups to not run out of diskspace when upgrading....

In your case, you have the space, go for minimum the double of the proposal for the rootfs, and save yourself some headaches.

Yep, unless you know you really need the room for the rest, I'd just go for 60+ root and 1xRAM of swap. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org