01.03.2017 00:02, Felix Miata пишет:

Andrei Borzenkov composed on 2017-02-28 22:07 (UTC+0300):

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In reminiscence of recent discussion about desktop selection and "but it is easy to add whatever you like using pattern" ...

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I installed TW using "Text server" option (which resulted in whooping 2.5GB; I remember minimal server was around 600MB in not so distant past, but well, that's different topic).

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Now I want to add XFCE. I did "zypper in -t pattern --no-recommends xfce". According to "zypper se -t pattern" both XFCE and x11 patterns are installed. But runing "init 5" does nothing. Nor do I even have Xorg available.

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Looking at pattern names the only pattern mentioning X11 is the one I already have.

Is the x11_opt pattern also installed?

I do not see x11_opt pattern in the list of "zypper se -t pattern". I see *package* patterns-openSUSE-x11_opt. Why is it not considered a pattern by zypper? Anyway, it requires patterns basesystem, enhanced_base and fonts, all of which are already installed. And it does not recommend anything that would install Xorg either. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

02.03.2017 23:46, Martin Wilck пишет:

On Tue, 2017-02-28 at 22:07 +0300, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...

In reminiscence of recent discussion about desktop selection and "but it is easy to add whatever you like using pattern" ...

I installed TW using "Text server" option (which resulted in whooping 2.5GB; I remember minimal server was around 600MB in not so distant past, but well, that's different topic).

Now I want to add XFCE. I did "zypper in -t pattern --no-recommends xfce". According to "zypper se -t pattern" both XFCE and x11 patterns are installed. But runing "init 5" does nothing. Nor do I even have Xorg available.

I had the same problem recently. I think --no-recommends just doesn't work for this case.

No, it is not the point here. Without --no-recommends it still does not install Xorg server with necessary environment. This by itself is probably correct - we can also run functional desktop on remote X - but I do not see any pattern for installing X server environment itself. And installing xorg-x11-server itself installs just binaries without any default fonts that or other packages would be otherwise selected by yast installer. I miss pattern "local X server" or similar.

But "zypper in -t pattern --no-recommends xfce" should be quite lightweight.

Martin

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, 2017-03-03 at 06:49 +0300, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

I miss pattern "local X server" or similar.

What about "x11"? Doesn't work with --no-recommends though. # zypper info -t pattern --requires x11 Requires    : patterns-openSUSE-x11 = 20170206-2.1 apollon:~ # rpm -q --recommends patterns-openSUSE-x11 (...) xorg-x11-server xterm -- Dr. Martin Wilck , Tel. +49 (0)911 74053 2107 SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 03/03/2017 09:17 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2017-03-03 04:49, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

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No, it is not the point here. Without --no-recommends it still does not install Xorg server with necessary environment. This by itself is probably correct - we can also run functional desktop on remote X - but I do not see any pattern for installing X server environment itself. And installing xorg-x11-server itself installs just binaries without any default fonts that or other packages would be otherwise selected by yast installer.

...

I miss pattern "local X server" or similar.

Perhaps the "minimal X desktop" pattern, I don't know the exact name. In fact, I do not see it in the list of patterns, it was a phrase during YaST installing of the system.

In YAST its the "X Window System" in the patterns list or patterns-opensuse-x11 from reading the pattern it requires almost nothing not even xorg-x11-server or input drivers let alone a display manager or window manager. That seems wrong and broken, not so much the not providing a window manager but it should provide input drivers etc. We should probably add a Provides: Display-Manager to each display manager then Require Display-Manager in the pattern so that atleast 1 gets installed. We may also need a wayland pattern given its possible (atleast in theory) to run some desktops supported in openSUSE without X11. I've created https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1028028 to track progress here. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

On 03/06/2017 12:42 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2017-03-06 03:04, Simon Lees wrote:

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On 03/03/2017 09:17 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2017-03-03 04:49, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

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No, it is not the point here. Without --no-recommends it still does not install Xorg server with necessary environment. This by itself is probably correct - we can also run functional desktop on remote X - but I do not see any pattern for installing X server environment itself. And installing xorg-x11-server itself installs just binaries without any default fonts that or other packages would be otherwise selected by yast installer.

...

I miss pattern "local X server" or similar.

Perhaps the "minimal X desktop" pattern, I don't know the exact name. In fact, I do not see it in the list of patterns, it was a phrase during YaST installing of the system.

In YAST its the "X Window System" in the patterns list or patterns-opensuse-x11 from reading the pattern it requires almost nothing not even xorg-x11-server or input drivers let alone a display manager or window manager. That seems wrong and broken, not so much the not providing a window manager but it should provide input drivers etc. We should probably add a Provides: Display-Manager to each display manager then Require Display-Manager in the pattern so that atleast 1 gets installed. We may also need a wayland pattern given its possible (atleast in theory) to run some desktops supported in openSUSE without X11.

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I've created https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1028028 to track progress here.

Thanks.

Oh, I forgot to say i'm only planning to fix it for Leap 43.X and tumbleweed. Leap 42.X is unlikely to get most of these changes. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

Andrei Borzenkov composed on 2017-03-06 06:46 (UTC+0300):

Unfortunately after installing Xorg XFCE session fails with "cannot connect to /run/user/0". It suggests installing xfce4-session, but it is already there. All Recommends of xfce4-session are installed too (at least non-trivial ones). All in all, it appears that adding DE post initial install is not trivial task.

I've not installed text server ever that I can remember, only long ago its predecessor minimal non-X whatever it was called. In recent years, I'm in the habit of installing minimal X server, configuring 'zypp.conf: solver.onlyRequires = true', and only then zypper installing Plasma, KDE3, TDE or XFCE, not by pattern, but by specifying rpms known to be required for them to produce a working X session. I don't have any recollection of material obstacles to success with this method either in TW or releases at least as far back as 12.1 or 11.4. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. composed on 2017-03-06 05:21 (UTC+0100):

Felix Miata wrote:

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In recent years, I'm in the habit of installing minimal X server,

But YaST does not offer that entry now. KDE, Gnome, Minimal text server, Other. As I recall, minimal X server was not there. :-?

configuring 'zypp.conf:

...

solver.onlyRequires = true', and only then zypper installing Plasma, KDE3, TDE or XFCE, not by pattern, but by specifying rpms known to be required for them to produce a working X session. I don't have any recollection of material obstacles to success with this method either in TW or releases at least as far back as 12.1 or 11.4.

So you have not tried Leap with this?

Not sure what you are asking. Best of my recollection is that what I do requires starting with "Other" and selecting whatever language there suggested bare minimum X. Online installation instruction screenshots for 42.1 and 42.2 don't seem to include what "Other" does or did contain, and I don't remember what is or was in it. My last installation almost certainly by now was over 60 days ago. I don't keep central track of how any given installation was made, only their primary DE and date of last update. To find out how any installation was made I must boot the given machine and inspect /root/inst-sys and/or zyp* logs. I have about 28 installations of 42.1 and 42.2, some made by zypper updating from previous, some by fresh installation, over half via zypper. Last fresh 42.2 was Nov. 30; last TW 4 weeks ago, assuming I didn't miss any in between and forget to copy over its y2logs. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 03/06/2017 02:16 PM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

03.03.2017 10:43, Martin Wilck пишет:

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On Fri, 2017-03-03 at 06:49 +0300, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...

I miss pattern "local X server" or similar.

What about "x11"? Doesn't work with --no-recommends though.

# zypper info -t pattern --requires x11 Requires : patterns-openSUSE-x11 = 20170206-2.1

apollon:~ # rpm -q --recommends patterns-openSUSE-x11 (...) xorg-x11-server xterm

Yes, indeed. I had to bite the bullet.

02.03.2017 23:46, Martin Wilck пишет:

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I had the same problem recently. I think --no-recommends just doesn't work for this case. But "zypper in -t pattern --no-recommends xfce" should be quite lightweight.

Unfortunately after installing Xorg XFCE session fails with "cannot connect to /run/user/0". It suggests installing xfce4-session, but it is already there. All Recommends of xfce4-session are installed too (at least non-trivial ones). All in all, it appears that adding DE post initial install is not trivial task.

Its trivial if you don't use "--no-recommends", however in the case of xfce I think you could do the following and not end up with any packages that you don't need. "zypper install patterns-openSUSE-x11; zypper install --no-recommends patterns-openSUSE-xfce lightdm" but note that won't install most of the xfce4-panel-plugin-* packages that are only ever suggested. Your luck will vary between desktops for example enlightenment is less modular and just installing the enlightenment package will give you a working system. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

On Thu, 2017-03-02 at 21:50 +0100, Ondřej Súkup wrote:

"init 5" ? are you serious ?

/usr/lib/systemd/system/runlevel5.target -> graphical.target and "init 5" is an alias for "telinit 5", which is an alias for "systemctl isolate runlevel5.target". So yes, "init 5" works just fine. And it saves 28 keystrokes. Martin -- Dr. Martin Wilck , Tel. +49 (0)911 74053 2107 SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2017-03-02 at 16:51 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

PRETTY_NAME="openSUSE Tumbleweed" # which init /sbin/init # init --help init [OPTIONS...] {COMMAND}

Send control commands to the init daemon.

      --help      Show this help       --no-wall   Don't send wall message before halt/power- off/reboot

Commands:    0              Power-off the machine    6              Reboot the machine    2, 3, 4, 5     Start runlevelX.target unit    1, s, S        Enter rescue mode    q, Q           Reload init daemon configuration    u, U           Reexecute init daemon

"Start" it, or isolate it? Is there a difference?

From init(1):

"If systemd is called as init and a PID that is not 1, it will execute telinit and pass all command line arguments unmodified."

From telinit(8):

"telinit may be used to change the SysV system runlevel... 2, 3, 4, 5: this [...] is equivalent to systemctl isolate runlevel2.target, ..." -- Dr. Martin Wilck , Tel. +49 (0)911 74053 2107 SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-03-02 21:50, Ondřej Súkup wrote:

On 28 February 2017 at 20:07, Andrei Borzenkov <> wrote:

...

Now I want to add XFCE. I did "zypper in -t pattern --no-recommends xfce". According to "zypper se -t pattern" both XFCE and x11 patterns are installed. But runing "init 5" does nothing. Nor do I even have Xorg available. "init 5" ? are you serious ?

opensuse uses systemd from 12.x ?

corect way is : systemctl set-default graphical.target; systemctl isolate graphical.target

Not really. There was promise that "init 5" would remain working, and is faster to type. So, both methods are equally correct. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAli4ja8ACgkQja8UbcUWM1z1QgD+MofT3nn/mfu5pnTpYKgQjMnw JIjIOkTQWlpdQ2VOD5cA/0EXOvagkVPy0U4vuWHhNhwg8UjaO9Qv9prDG38OzZ+v =zoeG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-03-03 09:54, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

On 02.03.2017 22:25, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Not really. There was promise that "init 5" would remain working, and is faster to type.

You are around long enough that you should have learned what these "promises" that were made to coax everyone into accepting systemd are worth nowadays.

Considering who made the promise, I believe him. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAli5R+4ACgkQja8UbcUWM1we0AEAgErZ4g1s8N0KUWrbdX0snbgJ PRjddq5yTF3oYH7+9g0BAJHxBw6fj4LXqZSivhkbqmtzpurI3fu+ahGmTRzrh0+U =DCU7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-03-03 15:36, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 03/03/17 05:39 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2017-03-03 09:54, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

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On 02.03.2017 22:25, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Not really. There was promise that "init 5" would remain working, and is faster to type.

...

You are around long enough that you should have learned what these "promises" that were made to coax everyone into accepting systemd are worth nowadays.

Considering who made the promise, I believe him.

And even if it goes away, how difficult is it to write a shell script named "init" that has a case statement to do things according to [Ss123456] and such like?

Good idea :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAli5qqMACgkQja8UbcUWM1yt5AD/YTkfsc5RxzI69OB4EehMBOFm pHiPU4ao/HhNgy9Lb0wBAJjJLOJufwkRmPdrIkiysjJuJTfc5mF7L2wuzdynaY3f =R88e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 03/02/2017 03:50 PM, Ondřej Súkup wrote:

On 28 February 2017 at 20:07, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...

In reminiscence of recent discussion about desktop selection and "but it is easy to add whatever you like using pattern" ...

I installed TW using "Text server" option (which resulted in whooping 2.5GB; I remember minimal server was around 600MB in not so distant past, but well, that's different topic).

Now I want to add XFCE. I did "zypper in -t pattern --no-recommends xfce". According to "zypper se -t pattern" both XFCE and x11 patterns are installed. But runing "init 5" does nothing. Nor do I even have Xorg available. "init 5" ? are you serious ?

opensuse uses systemd from 12.x ?

corect way is : systemctl set-default graphical.target; systemctl isolate graphical.target

That is so much easier to remember then *init 5*. Why don't you rather inform users that systemctrl now is *tab aware*. It's the only reason I don't struggle as much using it. the *tab aware* feature is a great addition. -- Ken Schneider -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org