On 2015-01-28 07:29, Basil Chupin wrote:

So, Tumbleweed is really a continuation of 13.2 which was spawned from Factory, right?

No. Tw is now (not half a year ago) a copy of factory, made after factory passes some automated tests. So, in the cases where before you would have used factory, you have to use Tumbleweed now. It is not based in 13.2 at all. It was based on 13.1, some months back. Then the method changed with 13.2. Actually, Current Tumbleweed has the same name as the old one, but it is quite different.

My posts also raises 2 questions:

1) if Tumbleweed comes from Factory then why are there so many problems being reported re Tumbleweed when people try it? The Portal states, as you show above, that TW is updated after "......software has been integrated, stabilized and tested. ....." See for example the comments to the announcement that the snapshot 20150126 has just been released.

Automated tests, not human based tests. When a new failure is found, someone has to design and implement a new automated test to catch it.

But then why doesn't it have all the available repositories available to it for people to use? For example there are:

Well, that's up to the people that create those repos.

download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Extra/openSUSE_Tumbleweed

download.opensuse.org/repsitories/games/openSUSE_Tumbleweed

but there is not mention of them: they don't appear in the list of repositories in YaST nor are they mentioned in the Tumbleweed Portal.

Not all repos are listed everywhere for all distributions. And the structure changes without documentation update.

These are clearly shown in the list of repositories in download.opensuse.org/repositories yet are not included in TW's YaST.

The list is a dynamic file downloaded from somewhere, I don't know the details. Someone could update it. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2015-01-29 07:57, Basil Chupin wrote:

On 28/01/15 22:18, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Have you tried to follow what I said in my post to which you are replying?

Yes. Mostly wrong. :-)

Oh, this is a new one. "Automated tests", eh? But doesn't EVERYTHING go thru "automated tests" before being made available in a repository?

No. Not this battery. Basically they install it (TW) somewhere virtual and run some things. Automatically, nobody sees it. There are logs and validations. Read about it somewhere if you are interested.

If what you say is true (only "automated tests") then the wording in the Tumbleweed Portal is goobly-dook and would not pass the 'truthfullness' test if it was a commercial on the TV.

I don't see why. The process is documented.

...

But then why doesn't it have all the available repositories available to it for people to use? For example there are: Well, that's up to the people that create those repos.

Translation: It's someone else's fault - fine. But who is responsible for managing those "people who create those repos."?

It's a free world. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 29/01/15 22:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-01-29 07:57, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

On 28/01/15 22:18, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Have you tried to follow what I said in my post to which you are replying? Yes. Mostly wrong. :-)

...

Oh, this is a new one. "Automated tests", eh? But doesn't EVERYTHING go thru "automated tests" before being made available in a repository? No. Not this battery. Basically they install it (TW) somewhere virtual and run some things.

"Somewhere virtual", eh? Confirms my thoughts on it: that it is virtual reality only viewable thru special goggles.

Automatically, nobody sees it. There are logs and validations. Read about it somewhere if you are interested.

...

If what you say is true (only "automated tests") then the wording in the Tumbleweed Portal is goobly-dook and would not pass the 'truthfullness' test if it was a commercial on the TV. I don't see why. The process is documented.

Translation: I have heard a rumour that someone has written some incomprehensible diatribe on this and it is up to you to go and search for it because I don't know where it is not will I tell you if I knew.

But then why doesn't it have all the available repositories available to it for people to use? For example there are: Well, that's up to the people that create those repos.

...

Translation: It's someone else's fault - fine. But who is responsible for managing those "people who create those repos."? It's a free world.

No, it isn't you know. The only thing which is free is the oxygen which we breath. And this is only free because they haven't yet figured out how to privatise it and make a profit on it. But they are working very hard on a solution by polluting the air as the first step.......... BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.3 & kernel 3.18.5-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

* Basil Chupin [01-29-15 02:00]: [...]

Oh, this is a new one. "Automated tests", eh? But doesn't EVERYTHING go thru "automated tests" before being made available in a repository?

No.

If what you say is true (only "automated tests") then the wording in the Tumbleweed Portal is goobly-dook and would not pass the 'truthfullness' test if it was a commercial on the TV.

Not so and to my recall, never intended for any representation on "TV" in any form other than serving or building displays.

...

But then why doesn't it have all the available repositories available to it for people to use? For example there are: Well, that's up to the people that create those repos.

Translation: It's someone else's fault - fine. But who is responsible for managing those "people who create those repos."?

No, Translation: People who create "those" repos control what destinations are published. Someone else's fault would apply to your failure to research the structure and intent of Tw.

...

download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Extra/openSUSE_Tumbleweed

download.opensuse.org/repsitories/games/openSUSE_Tumbleweed

but there is not mention of them: they don't appear in the list of repositories in YaST nor are they mentioned in the Tumbleweed Portal. Not all repos are listed everywhere for all distributions. And the structure changes without documentation update.

Sorry, but you are trying to defend the indefensible here. If 13.1, 13.2, and earlier, can have the repos shown in YaST then Tumbleweed should also have the repos applicable to it shown.

And the same applies to your search for an "update" repo labled Tw, but Tw by definition is an "update" repo with no need for "another update" repo. And Tw repos for 13.1/13.2/.... are redundant as Tw is already quite past those repos as it is as up-to-date/current as possible w/o actually using unstable version of Factory. You either completely mis-understand the intent of Tw or are again arguing for the sake of argument. :Y) paka waiting for the hammer to fall. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 30/01/15 01:09, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Basil Chupin [01-29-15 02:00]: [...]

...

Oh, this is a new one. "Automated tests", eh? But doesn't EVERYTHING go thru "automated tests" before being made available in a repository? No.

...

If what you say is true (only "automated tests") then the wording in the Tumbleweed Portal is goobly-dook and would not pass the 'truthfullness' test if it was a commercial on the TV.

Not so and to my recall, never intended for any representation on "TV" in any form other than serving or building displays.

Oh Patrick, the reference to TV was not intended to mean that openSUSE/Tumbleweed will appear in a TV commercial :-( .

But then why doesn't it have all the available repositories available to it for people to use? For example there are: Well, that's up to the people that create those repos.

...

Translation: It's someone else's fault - fine. But who is responsible for managing those "people who create those repos."? No, Translation: People who create "those" repos control what destinations are published.

Someone else's fault would apply to your failure to research the structure and intent of Tw.

Sorry, ol' boy! But why should *I* go researching the structure and intent on TW?! The bloody thing is available for download from the official openSUSE site and there are instructions on how to install it and all that jazz. If openSUSE want to release something like Tumbleweed AND also have Kulow have a presentation on the forthcoming "Expo" then Tumbleweed is something which openSUSE considers to be a MAJOR piece of software. And you don't spend human and computer and financial resources in pushing a piece of crap.

...

...

download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Extra/openSUSE_Tumbleweed

download.opensuse.org/repsitories/games/openSUSE_Tumbleweed

but there is not mention of them: they don't appear in the list of repositories in YaST nor are they mentioned in the Tumbleweed Portal. Not all repos are listed everywhere for all distributions. And the structure changes without documentation update. Sorry, but you are trying to defend the indefensible here. If 13.1, 13.2, and earlier, can have the repos shown in YaST then Tumbleweed should also have the repos applicable to it shown. And the same applies to your search for an "update" repo labled Tw, but Tw by definition is an "update" repo with no need for "another update" repo. And Tw repos for 13.1/13.2/.... are redundant as Tw is already quite past those repos as it is as up-to-date/current as possible w/o actually using unstable version of Factory.

You either completely mis-understand the intent of Tw or are again arguing for the sake of argument. :Y)

I cannot help concluding that it is you who are misunderstanding the situation.

paka waiting for the hammer to fall.

Consider it fallen :-) . BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.3 & kernel 3.18.5-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

<snip>

...

My posts also raises 2 questions:

1) if Tumbleweed comes from Factory then why are there so many problems being reported re Tumbleweed when people try it? The Portal states, as you show above, that TW is updated after "......software has been integrated, stabilized and tested. ....." See for example the comments to the announcement that the snapshot 20150126 has just been released. Automated tests, not human based tests. When a new failure is found, someone has to design and implement a new automated test to catch it.

Oh, this is a new one. "Automated tests", eh? But doesn't EVERYTHING go thru "automated tests" before being made available in a repository?

No, Everything has to build cleanly and there are a number of static "rpmlint" tests. For home and devel repositories it is not even guaranteed a new package can be installed, let alone that the executables execute. The OBS process for home / devel projects is simply: - build a RPM - run rpmlint - if no major errors, publish Note the total absence of installing the rpm or invoking any of the executables.

If what you say is true (only "automated tests") then the wording in the Tumbleweed Portal is goobly-dook and would not pass the 'truthfullness' test if it was a commercial on the TV.

The set of automated tests is pretty impressive. Take 15 minutes and review: https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/ Click on the links, pull-downs, etc. There is a lot of meat on those bones and new meat is being added over time. You may recall 13.1 to 13.2 took a full 12 months. One of the major reasons for the extra 4 months was to allow autoQA/openQA to be truly integrated into the OBS factory release process. So don't blow this off as a minor issue. autoQA / openQA is a major openSUSE feature and it significantly grew in power in the last 12 months. One could easily argue that the new autoQA/openQA model is why the Tumbleweed development meant model was totally transformed. I don't know how it compares to how other distros do testing. fyi: The new "tumbleweed" process is still being implemented. The goal as I understand it is to have all repos named after Tumbleweed, not factory by early May. As the process matures, one assumes more Tumbleweed devel repos will be published, etc. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

On Thursday 2015-01-29 19:27, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

The OBS process for home / devel projects is simply:

- build a RPM - run rpmlint - if no major errors, publish

Note the total absence of installing the rpm or invoking any of the executables.

That is incorrect; as part of rpmlint (or was it post-build-checks, who knows), the RPMs get installed to see if the install-uninstall cycle is idempotent. Search for that exact last word in your build log.

Then how do packages with non-satisfied "Requires" statements get published? As an example I just branched a package: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:gregfreemyer:branches:security/... I added "Requires: non-existent-junk" to the specfile. Yet, the package built and is now published. If the RPM was installed prior to publishing, it must have used a force option to ignore required packages. In fact if you look at: https://build.opensuse.org/package/binary/home:gregfreemyer:branches:security/python-plaso?arch=x86_64&filename=python-plaso-1.2.0-10.1.noarch.rpm&repository=openSUSE_13.2 you can see there are 7 different "Requires:" statements that can't be satisfied. (The other 6 are in security:forensics, but not in factory. The home project I added the branch to is not using security:forensics to satisfy Requires: statements.) fyi: I would prefer this build to fail. Maybe it is nice in home projects to let packages build that don't have all the "required" external packages, but in devel projects in particular, I think the build should fail. They don't. Thanks Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 3:24 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-01-29 21:11, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

...

On Thursday 2015-01-29 19:27, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

...

...

Note the total absence of installing the rpm or invoking any of the executables.

That is incorrect; as part of rpmlint (or was it post-build-checks, who knows), the RPMs get installed to see if the install-uninstall cycle is idempotent. Search for that exact last word in your build log.

Then how do packages with non-satisfied "Requires" statements get published?

Just a guess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idempotence

«Idempotence (/ˌaɪdɨmˈpoʊtəns/ EYE-dəm-POH-təns) is the property of certain operations in mathematics and computer science, that can be applied multiple times without changing the result beyond the initial application. The concept of idempotence arises in a number of places in abstract algebra (in particular, in the theory of projectors and closure operators) and functional programming (in which it is connected to the property of referential transparency). The request methods of the HyperText Transfer Protocol (HTTP) computer protocol are a common example of idempotence, in that data retrieval operations can be performed without changing or otherwise affecting the data.»

So I guess it is simply installed without deps, to just check that it can be installed and removed.

I'd find it more valuable if it confirmed the deps could be satisfied. As it is now a typo in a "Requires" statement isn't picked up until you manually try to install the RPM. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

On Thu, 2015-01-29 at 15:46 -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

I'd find it more valuable if it confirmed the deps could be satisfied. As it is now a typo in a "Requires" statement isn't picked up until you manually try to install the RPM.

The problem with that is that any Requires would forcibly need to be available in the buildroot (so a BuildRequires)... whereas this is often the case, there are many cases where this assumption would only lead to much larger build cyles (especially true with python stuff - you need close to nothing to build/install it, but to run you might need a lot more).

When forwarding stuff to TW, though, it is ensured that at the time it is accepted, it is installable. Of course this can change over time (think changed libraries, wrongly executed package renames)

Cheers,

-- Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger

"ensured" ? Just this morning I had a package accepted (by you!) to factory that didn't have all the BuildRequires accepted yet. The missing BuidRequire has been in staging for a couple weeks and should show up in factory at some point, so I'm not complaining. https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/openSUSE:Factory/libfvalue Regardless, I'd love to see a mechanism to force a installability test in the devel/home projects. We currently have build / publish. I'm talking a flag in the metadata that if set would say build / test requires satisfied / publish. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

<snip>

...

Regardless, I'd love to see a mechanism to force a installability test in the devel/home projects.

<snip>

For such a feature, I'd recommend to go to the OBS team and actually ASK for it. Just wishing for it without expressing the wish to the devs in question won't make it happen.

Is that an email to opensuse-buildservice ? Or somewhere else?

Oh, by the way: here is a list of install-issues currently in Tumbleweed: https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/openSUSE:Factory:Staging/dashbo...

Uhggg... Surprisingly long. I hope that isn't routine. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hello, Am Samstag, 31. Januar 2015 schrieb Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger:

On Fri, 2015-01-30 at 12:49 -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

...

Oh, by the way: here is a list of install-issues currently in Tumbleweed: https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/openSUSE:Factory:Stag ing/dashboard/installcheck?expand=1> Uhggg...

Surprisingly long. I hope that isn't routine.

Given the number of packages we have in factory, I wouldn't call that list "long", but of course it should be shortened to 0 lines ;-) Actually the list is shorter than it looks because many of the failures boil down to nothing provides libgif.so.6()(64bit) needed by $whatever so if someone fixes this, half of the install problems will be fixed.

Somebody needs to do the 'boring' work of fixing the issues; seems nobody actually wants to do that. Or it's all packages people don't care for and don't realize they have issues; we could as well delete them :)

Well, at least in the "obsoleted by $otherpackage" cases, a delete request is probably a valid solution ;-) - but please note that there are also some "strange" obsoltes which need to be checked/fixed instead of deleting the package (for example, dapl-debug obsoleted by dapl sounds interesting[tm]). Regards, Christian Boltz --

Führst Du schon Selbstgespräche? ;-) Hm. Kann sein. Was meinst du? Nein, glaube ich nicht. Sicher? Ganz sicher. Nein, tun wir nicht. [> Christian Boltz und Ratti in fontlinge-devel]

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

...

...

...

...

"Jan" == Jan Engelhardt writes:

Jan> On Saturday 2015-01-31 16:55, Christian Boltz wrote: >>> On Fri, 2015-01-30 at 12:49 -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote: >> >>> > > Oh, by the way: here is a list of install-issues currently in > > >>> Tumbleweed: > > >>> https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/openSUSE:Factory:Stag > > >>> ing/dashboard/installcheck?expand=1> > Uhggg... >>> > >>> > Surprisingly long. I hope that isn't routine. >> >> Given the number of packages we have in factory, I wouldn't call that >> list "long", but of course it should be shortened to 0 lines ;-) >> >> Actually the list is shorter than it looks because many of the failures >> boil down to >> nothing provides libgif.so.6()(64bit) needed by $whatever >> so if someone fixes this, half of the install problems will be fixed. Jan> There is already a request for windowmaker. But the maintainers of Jan> that package seem AWOL (away on leave - aka vacation ;) And I just accepted and send to factory with sr #283600 -- Life is endless possibilities -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 28.01.15 Basil Chupin wrote:

but there is not mention of them: they don't appear in the list of repositories in YaST nor are they mentioned in the Tumbleweed Portal.

Not all repositories are suitable for 'end users'. Some contain unstable packages, or packages being developed before they get submitteld to factory. Not sure about the ones you listed, though. If I understand correctly, ideally all stable packages should be submitted to factory, after being developed in the devel projects. That way 'normal users', i.e. users not being able or willing to do bug reports etc. are not harmed. Corrections welcome. Regards, Johannes - -- `But he knows your dad was right all along now about Voldemort being back -´ `Dumbledore says people find it far easier to forgive others for being wrong than being right,´ said Hermione. (Ron and Hermione in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with SeaMonkey - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlTI2fMACgkQzi3gQ/xETbKilACfVJ8zCvJL45fQxvBVqtkf8a7y C4cAnAtkgcbDbA2xhwTXH1CeSmH5RpIf =PAbo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 28.01.15 Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

...

If I understand correctly, ideally all stable packages should be submitted to factory, after being developed in the devel projects. That way 'normal users', i.e. users not being able or willing to do bug reports etc. are not harmed.

Corrections welcome.

Packman should at least be there, they have a TW branch.

Right, thanks for the correction. I change the above to: ...ideally, all stable packages, that are legally allowed to be put on obs, ... Regards, Johannes - -- ...Unix, MS-DOS, and Windows NT (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly). (Matt Welsh) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with SeaMonkey - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlTI4XkACgkQzi3gQ/xETbJMrwCgkJaQ1iw4Q1XTSHRE1zZtidNh Rh0An2JfZWmmta/m6/mC8Qw/Qgo3WZi0 =EH9n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 29/01/15 00:09, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

On 01/28/2015 07:45 AM, Johannes Kastl wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 28.01.15 Basil Chupin wrote:

...

but there is not mention of them: they don't appear in the list of repositories in YaST nor are they mentioned in the Tumbleweed Portal.

Not all repositories are suitable for 'end users'. Some contain unstable packages, or packages being developed before they get submitteld to factory. Not sure about the ones you listed, though.

If I understand correctly, ideally all stable packages should be submitted to factory, after being developed in the devel projects. That way 'normal users', i.e. users not being able or willing to do bug reports etc. are not harmed.

Corrections welcome.

Packman should at least be there, they have a TW branch.

Packman is not there. Libdvdcss is not there. These 2 can only be obtained by using the 1-click Install to be able to use Media apps. And these 2 are not there, as I already mentioned: download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Extra/openSUSE_Tumbleweed download.opensuse.org/games/openSUSE_Tumbleweed Why are they missing? Nobody knows. And TW is supposed to be "bleeding edge" after the latest release of openSUSE. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.3 & kernel 3.18.5-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 17:29:54 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:

So, Tumbleweed is really a continuation of 13.2 which was spawned from Factory, right?

No. There's nothing in the paragraph that precedes the one I cited that changes the meaning to be anything other than Factory. Factory is the basis for Tumbleweed, 13.2 is not. Factory is a "main" branch, think of it that way. Each release (13.1, 13.2, 14.0, whatever) is a fork of factory at a particular point. Tumbleweed is a release based on the main branch. Patches may be/are (to use a git term) cherry-picked from one to the other (one of the devs would have to describe how this is done more specifically). Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun, 01 Feb 2015 17:17:15 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:

Thanks Jim, but this business of "one of the devs would have to describe how this is done more specifically" and the use of "cherry-picked" does not sound like a solid explanation of an openSUSE distribution which is taking up resources in both man-hour and computer resources.

You're making this far too complicated. It's not that difficult. Factory = main branch. 13.x releases (for example) = forks off the main branch. Tumbleweed = checkpoints in the main branch. Patches are applied to the branches as appropriate, depending on the need. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about that. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

* Basil Chupin [02-09-15 00:47]:

On 02/02/15 08:17, Jim Henderson wrote:

...

On Sun, 01 Feb 2015 17:17:15 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Thanks Jim, but this business of "one of the devs would have to describe how this is done more specifically" and the use of "cherry-picked" does not sound like a solid explanation of an openSUSE distribution which is taking up resources in both man-hour and computer resources. You're making this far too complicated.

It's not that difficult.

Factory = main branch.

13.x releases (for example) = forks off the main branch.

Tumbleweed = checkpoints in the main branch.

Patches are applied to the branches as appropriate, depending on the need.

I don't see what's so difficult to understand about that.

Jim

I am trying to figure out if you are saying this with tongue-in-cheek or are being deadly serious.

Oh, you already know the answer. This is *just* a test. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

If you're lucky enough to attending FOSDEM this weekend, Coolo has a talk on Sunday about how Tumbleweed became the rolling release we know today.. might be a good opportunity if people are still getting confused after all the Merger announcements over the last months :) On 27 January 2015 at 22:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-01-27 07:42, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

What is Tumbleweed based on? I was under the assumption that TW was based on oS 13.2 and that it was the "rolling version" of oS 13.2. But is it?

No.

That was the case about half a year ago, with 13.1. No longer.

-- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 2015-01-27 23:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-01-27 23:19, Richard Brown wrote:

...

If you're lucky enough to attending FOSDEM this weekend, Coolo has a talk on Sunday about how Tumbleweed became the rolling release we know today.. might be a good opportunity if people are still getting confused after all the Merger announcements over the last months :)

Unfortunately, travel is not cheap. Brussels? I can't justify the expense. If it were Madrid, yes. But then it would be more expensive for others...

Distance is not measured in kilometers, but euros.

And then, time. That is, if you are willing to trains, and then local trains only. ;) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 30 January 2015 at 08:32, Hans Witvliet wrote:

On Tue, 2015-01-27 at 23:33 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2015-01-27 23:19, Richard Brown wrote:

...

If you're lucky enough to attending FOSDEM this weekend, Coolo has a talk on Sunday about how Tumbleweed became the rolling release we know today.. might be a good opportunity if people are still getting confused after all the Merger announcements over the last months :)

Unfortunately, travel is not cheap. Brussels? I can't justify the expense. If it were Madrid, yes. But then it would be more expensive for others...

Distance is not measured in kilometers, but euros.

Well, with regards to FOSDEM.... The good thing is that most sessions will be recorded. Unfortunately, I have to observe that (open)SUSE's presence decreases every year.

Hans

Decreases? SUSE have a busload of people coming, the community has more coming than usual.. we got merchandise, DVDs, USB sticks, and beer... What planet are you on? :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org