Am Dienstag 29 September 2009 schrieb Per Jessen:

Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

Hi,

Milestone8 is not ready, there are some nasty issues. Most prominently the new kernel throwing OOPSes without acpi=off and KDE updates still don't work, so I won't release M8 in this state. How much delay this means I can't tell atm, but thursday is still possible.

I guess that means not much hope of having anything done about this one: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=538351 ?

You will have to fix the bug. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Dienstag 29 September 2009 schrieb Per Jessen:

Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

Am Dienstag 29 September 2009 schrieb Per Jessen:

...

Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

Hi,

Milestone8 is not ready, there are some nasty issues. Most prominently the new kernel throwing OOPSes without acpi=off and KDE updates still don't work, so I won't release M8 in this state. How much delay this means I can't tell atm, but thursday is still possible.

I guess that means not much hope of having anything done about this one: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=538351 ?

You will have to fix the bug.

Me? I think I'll stick to just reporting regressions such as this, thanks :-)

You can also do what Nikanth presented on the conference: http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/7/71/Buggykernel.pdf If you need help, subscribe to opensuse-kernel@opensuse.org Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

...

...

On 9/29/2009 at 15:31, Basil Chupin wrote: The question therefore has to be asked: what *DO* Novell/openSUSE staff contribute to the openSUSE distribution - apart from "You will have to fix the bug"?

Why do we keep considering Novell anything else than just a community member with big commitment? I think I'm allowed to say that, even if I am not a Novell employee, I feel this to be 'my' distribution. I feel as an integral part of the community and participate in different ways, offering a lot of time. As such: Novell offers the same to the openSUSE distribution as other contributors (I'd say even more: nobody else I've talked to offered us a BuildService and the infrastructure for example) About the case itself: Per is doing a great job in submitting reports and as I've seen he's also one that follows up on additional queries (not everybody does so unfortunately... Very often you see a 'file and bye' approach). But wouldn't it be great if we could just convince Per to go one step further? It's not that he is 'requested' to do so, but very often just giving often enough a hint in the right direction motivates people to look at something new / more. Don't take the 'help fix it' as offensive. It's a rather natural way of 'suggesting' that everybody can learn something new. Of course it might well be that Per does not have the time to invest in this specific case, or not the will. BUT maybe he is willing and just does not know how to get started for such a case? Why would we (community) not want to have him help out with all his knowledge, which, as hopefully nobody doubts, is of great value? Take this as a call for contribution: we all can help, in whatever way you can even think of... Programming / fixing code bugs is one way, reporting another appreciated. And many more tasks can be listed.... very often the step from reporting to fixing is actually not that big a gap as expected (not every fix involves code changes for example... ). Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 09/29/2009 11:42 PM, Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

...

...

...

On 9/29/2009 at 15:31, Basil Chupin wrote:

The question therefore has to be asked: what *DO* Novell/openSUSE staff contribute to the openSUSE distribution - apart from "You will have to fix the bug"?

Why do we keep considering Novell anything else than just a community member with big commitment?

Because Novell went out its way to acquire SuSE for its own benefit and not for the sake of a "community" effort.

I think I'm allowed to say that, even if I am not a Novell employee, I feel this to be 'my' distribution. I feel as an integral part of the community and participate in different ways, offering a lot of time. As such: Novell offers the same to the openSUSE distribution as other contributors (I'd say even more: nobody else I've talked to offered us a BuildService and the infrastructure for example)

You seem to treat this thing akin to a religious experience where "community" is some group of people adhering to one of the multitude of beliefs relating to some code of moral conduct as propounded by some religious enterprises. It is nothing of the sort. I have been an "adherant" and an "apostle" of SuSE (now openSUSE) for many years until recently. I am getting very, very close to converting to being an 'atheist' when it comes to oS.

About the case itself: Per is doing a great job in submitting reports and as I've seen he's also one that follows up on additional queries (not everybody does so unfortunately... Very often you see a 'file and bye' approach). But wouldn't it be great if we could just convince Per to go one step further? It's not that he is 'requested' to do so, but very often just giving often enough a hint in the right direction motivates people to look at something new / more.

Don't take the 'help fix it' as offensive. It's a rather natural way of 'suggesting' that everybody can learn something new. Of course it might well be that Per does not have the time to invest in this specific case, or not the will. BUT maybe he is willing and just does not know how to get started for such a case? Why would we (community) not want to have him help out with all his knowledge, which, as hopefully nobody doubts, is of great value?

Take this as a call for contribution: we all can help, in whatever way you can even think of... Programming / fixing code bugs is one way, reporting another appreciated. And many more tasks can be listed.... very often the step from reporting to fixing is actually not that big a gap as expected (not every fix involves code changes for example... ).

Per has been contributing for quite some time now but - and I do not even begin to assume that I convey his thoughts in any accurate way - I feel that he is now getting just a bit peed off (MY words, not his) about the situation with oS as it has been developing in recent times. I know that I am. I am not a programmer. I have no programming skills. All I can do is to report about hassles. And I do *NOT* mean having to submit "bug reports" about something which does not even work to begin with when it should work and should have been tested by the programmers/developers before the sheebang was released for download by the public- and cost the public time and money to download the crap (example: CDs which were (?)~400MB big when they should have been ~700MB big). 5 years ago I had pride in waiting to get my copy of the latest SuSE and I had spoken with confidence to my friends using anything other than SuSE about the joy of using SuSE. Now I keep my mouth shut, and if asked about Linux I point them towards Ubuntu/Kubuntu and, in recent times, towards Arch Linux.

Dominique

BC -- Never run yourself down - let other people do it instead. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 29 of September 2009, Jay Mistry wrote:

...

I am not a programmer. I have no programming skills. All I can do is to report about hassles.

Same here, from a non-technical (non-IT) background.

So you want to help, even if you have no programming skills? How about helping with bug triage then, for example? http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/BugSquashing , http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:KDE/Screening have instructions for KDE. Since you seem to use GNOME, I don't know if GNOME has such a page, but if you write to the opensuse-gnome list, I'm pretty sure Vincent and others will be happy to hear you'd like to help them with it.

Do you use openSUSE w/ Ubuntu ? I am using Ubuntu 9.04 alongwith openSUSE 11.1; though I find oS 11.1 is not as stable as Ubuntu. Sometime back I tried to change the Window Manager (am using GNOME as the default desktop in Ubuntu 9.04) from Metacity to Emerald using the Compiz Fusion Icon utility and ended-up with half the icons lost/not working as expected from the panels. After a reboot, the panel sorted itself out without any user intervention and the icons & shortcuts worked perfectly. Sadly, can't say the same about GNOME in openSUSE 11.1 at this point.

You do realize that Ubuntu 9.04 is about half a year newer than 11.1, with a newer GNOME version, and that as such this may have nothing to do with the actual distribution? -- Lubos Lunak KDE developer -------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 084 672 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

...

Same here, from a non-technical (non-IT) background.

 So you want to help, even if you have no programming skills? How about helping with bug triage then, for example?

 http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/BugSquashing , http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:KDE/Screening have instructions for KDE. Since you seem to use GNOME, I don't know if GNOME has such a page, but if you write to the opensuse-gnome list, I'm pretty sure Vincent and others will be happy to hear you'd like to help them with it.

Sure, would be glad to help (/ though in spare time only, which means weekends (mostly) /). I began Linux (about 1.5 years back) with openSUSE (11), after a couple of failed Fedora 9 install attempts due to monitor/display problems, having come from exclusive Windows-land. At that time, I did file a bug - https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=469256 and a more recent one for KDE - https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206577. The caveat for above being that I would not be able to contribute where technical knowledge is required - for example, the scripts and *advanced* cmd-line syntax on these lists goes over my head.

 You do realize that Ubuntu 9.04 is about half a year newer than 11.1, with a newer GNOME version, and that as such this may have nothing to do with the actual distribution?

Yes, but somehow I do not feel comfortable with GNOME in openSUSE, this problem started after I upgraded to GNOME 2.26. Hence what I said earlier: would prefer to wait for oS 11.2 and do a fresh install at that time, rather than doing part-by-part updates that don't seem to work properly. Jay -- Linux User 483705 | openSUSE 11.1, Ubuntu 9.04 (i686) w/ Windows XP Smolts Profile: http://www.smolts.org/client/show/?uuid=pub_b541a450-9bc1-45fd-beab-d46ee43a... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Please subscribe to the opensuse-gnome mailing list

Already have.

and share your experience with GNOME 2.26 there :-) (or make sure to open bugs)

I don't use GNOME with openSUSE 11.1 anymore, mostly KDE 4.3.1/3.5.10. As I said before, would prefer to wait for the stable openSUSE 11.2 release and install that in place of oS 11.1.

Thanks,

Vincent

Jay -- Linux User 483705 | openSUSE 11.1, Ubuntu 9.04 (i686) w/ Windows XP Smolts Profile: http://www.smolts.org/client/show/?uuid=pub_b541a450-9bc1-45fd-beab-d46ee43a... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am 29.09.2009 17:38, schrieb Lubos Lunak:

On Tuesday 29 of September 2009, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Because Novell went out its way to acquire SuSE for its own benefit and not for the sake of a "community" effort.

And then opened up a good part of it and keeps working on that.

Looks a bit like more a topic for -project? Anyway I "need" to comment on that. Yes, Novell opened up a good part of it. There is nothing wrong with it, it's actually perfectly fine. But what doesn't seem to work (looking from the outside) is the rate in which Novell decreases it's own commitment to openSUSE related to the rate we can attract community people to step in. Currently it seems that some areas in openSUSE are quite understaffed and the community is not (yet?) able to fill that gap. Just my thoughts and probably that's the kind of feeling some others have. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am 29.09.2009 20:11, schrieb Stephan Kulow:

On Tuesday 29 September 2009 19:23:01 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

Looks a bit like more a topic for -project? Anyway I "need" to comment on that.

Yes, Novell opened up a good part of it. There is nothing wrong with it, it's actually perfectly fine. But what doesn't seem to work (looking from the outside) is the rate in which Novell decreases it's own commitment to openSUSE related to the rate we can attract community people to step in. Currently it seems that some areas in openSUSE are quite understaffed and the community is not (yet?) able to fill that gap.

Well, I guess openSUSE just needs to stop offering lvm if it can't support it.

I'll take that as irony as in if openSUSE (including Novell) cannot support (and therefore ship it) we are doomed and other distributions will get some more users :-( Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Kulow wrote:

On Tuesday 29 September 2009 20:31:33 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

I'll take that as irony as in if openSUSE (including Novell) cannot support (and therefore ship it) we are doomed and other distributions will get some more users :-(

Well, what do you suggest? If noone can fix lvm bugs, how are we supposed to help it beside declaring lvm support as broken?

Is it me, or has this thread somehow taken a really stupid turn? I asked a question about an outstanding issue that I reported for M7. Stephan suggested I fix the bug myself, in which case I might as well not have bothered to report it at all. Why are we now discussing whether the openSUSE community can fix LVM problems? Also, AFAICT, the openSUSE community (as a whole) has yet to be charged with solving any of the problems reported in bugzilla, so how do you foresee the community helping with that, Stephan? /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hans-Peter Holler wrote:

No it isn't you. Your bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=538351 dated from 2009-09-11 has no response since. That's bad. But as you said there is no LVM involved, right? So this turn of this thread into accusing/defending has nothing to do with _your_ item. And it has nothing to do with Stephan's announcement about delaying M8. And this is mostly bad!

Stephan seemed to suggest that Thursday was still a possible for M8, which surprised me as my bugreport was a hard show-stopper for any testing on HP Proliants with SMART arrays. When Stephan suggested I just "fix it myself", I think it got everyones attention. I still think the thread has taken a stupid turn, even if Stephans suggestion did touch a nerve.

Hans-Peter PS: a simple new comment "Ping" into your bugzilla's could do it.

Hmm, I haven't tried that before - my bugreport was initially re-assigned to "nld10-bugs-qa@forge.provo.novell.com" - which part of the openSUSE community is that? (just wondering). /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.3°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

Stephan seemed to suggest that Thursday was still a possible for M8, which surprised me as my bugreport was a hard show-stopper for any testing on HP Proliants with SMART arrays.  When Stephan suggested I just "fix it myself", I think it got everyones attention.  I still think the thread has taken a stupid turn, even if Stephans suggestion did touch a nerve.

Part of it could be the age of the machine. There's been a definate trend to tell people to upgrade their machines over the last few years. I've been told to upgrade the RAM in my P3 laptops or buy new since a P3/500 isn't considered a reasonably useful system to many these days. The fact that it's fast enough to play movies and surf(without flash, which I despise anyway) seems to be lost on some people. I've been waiting for the minimum requirements to move to 512MB and 2GB be the recommended for a while now. Even Linus has recently be quoted complaining about code bloat and how it's making the system slower. I can't even run 11.0 with a GUI on a Powerbook G3/266 with 512MB RAM. It's way too slow. However, a G4/466 runs it just fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 10:14 AM, phanisvara das wrote:

On Wednesday 30 September 2009 07:16:13 pm Larry Stotler wrote:

...

I can't even run 11.0 with a GUI on a Powerbook G3/266 with 512MB RAM.  It's way too slow.  However, a G4/466 runs it just fine.

what's driving up the hardware requirement: operating system or desktop environment?

Desktop. firefox is a particularly bad offender. I rebooted my desktop yesterday, and top shows my top few ram users to be: (These are the standard top columns of:) VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 822m 213m 30m S 29 10.7 25:42.92 firefox 652m 208m 5904 S 16 10.5 22:13.78 Xorg 611m 55m 29m S 1 2.8 0:23.40 plasma-desktop 726m 50m 29m S 0 2.5 0:06.21 krunner I have 2 GB on this box now. I used to have only 1GB and it was always short of ram. ie. It was noticeably slower. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Larry Stotler wrote:

512MB should be fine for most users IMO.  If you can run XP with a 1Ghz P3 and 512MB well, then openSUSE should be usable as well.

For untweaked desktop machines reality does not agree. For instance I just launched a empty oowriter instance. No other OO apps running. It is using 140MB or ram. (80mb private ram, 60mb shared ram) I already posted that firefox and Xorg are using over 200mb each. 512MB is just not enough for the apps in OS 11.1 The same is true of XP. In fact, I have a machine that runs XP exclusively and one that runs suse 11.1 exclusively. Both had a GB of ram until 6 months ago. Both were being slowed down by the limited ram. I have upgraded both to 2GB. Neither use much pagefile space at all now. And more importantly, both are noticeably faster. I'd guess that 1.5GB is now the minimum for a untweaked desktop environment, but 2GB is easier to buy/install. Greg -- Greg Freemyer Head of EDD Tape Extraction and Processing team Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer Preservation and Forensic processing of Exchange Repositories White Paper - http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/tng_whitepaper_fpe.html The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer wrote:

For untweaked desktop machines reality does not agree. For instance I just launched a empty oowriter instance. No other OO apps running. It is using 140MB or ram. (80mb private ram, 60mb shared ram) I already posted that firefox and Xorg are using over 200mb each. 512MB is just not enough for the apps in OS 11.1

My five year old has a PC with 2.6GHz P4 and 512M - it does work very well, but then he's not exactly into running OO and FF and Java and lots of other stuff at the same time. I also think 512M is too little.

I'd guess that 1.5GB is now the minimum for a untweaked desktop environment, but 2GB is easier to buy/install.

My office machines still only have 1Gb, and that's entirely reasonable. I'm sure newer machines will come with 2Gb though. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (17.5°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 01 October 2009 17:02:00 Larry Stotler wrote:

Good question. Supposedly, KDE has gotten faster and uses less resources than ever.

I have seen benchmarks that clearly show KDE4 is less memory intensive than previous version. However (there's always on of these isn't there?) this was for early versions, and these made no effort to show the CPU resources used (which in my opinion is now considerable). Of course there was a refactoring round/release of KDE3 at some point if I recall correctly. Perhaps it's time for a cleanup in the KDE4 codebase? Though I suspect certain prominent KDE4 plasma devs will forge on with so much new code for 4.4 that we'll all be swimming in CPU quagmire for the forseaable future, sadly. Bottom line? KDE4: Uses less RAM (which nobody cares about), uses more CPU (which everyone cares about). -- “Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.” ☘ Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 02 October 2009 01:03:59 phanisvara das wrote:

well, people who run machines with 512 MB do...

And there are suitable alternatives for these people. Contemporary desktops should not be held back by limited resource devices or pseudo Luddites. Neither should the adoption of the contemporary desktops be held back by "certain prominent plasma devs" who are more than eager to thrash your CPU with new code rather than commit to a much needed stabilisation/refactoring release. -- “Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.” ☘ Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Op 02-10-09 09:59, Hans Witvliet schreef:

On Friday 02 October 2009 01:03:59 phanisvara das wrote:

...

...

well, people who run machines with 512 MB do...

And that ain't vintage systems. Just got a _new_ netbook (Acer aspire one) that only has 512MB mem, which can not (easily, like desktop server) be upgraded.

If it is DDR3, it could be enough, but i guess not with every app running at the same time...

-- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (M9.) (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.31-8-desktop x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: oddball@AMD64x2-SFN1 Systeem: openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 7 (x86_64) KDE: 4.3.1 (KDE 4.3.1) "release 2" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hey, Le vendredi 02 octobre 2009, à 11:08 +0200, Per Jessen a écrit :

Hans Witvliet wrote:

...

I'm not going to install SuSElinux_7.1, that would run in 64MB (yes, you read it correct: a humble sixtyfour MB) WITH KDE, allbeit KDE1.

Oh, SuSE Linux 7.1 would fine run in just 24Mb. I had it running as a firewall for 6-7 years on a 486 with 24Mb.

I think a couple of people have already pointed it out, but even so - it's not right pointing the finger at openSUSE as a distro, when the resource consumption is really caused by modern applications such as Firefox etc. I recently installed openSUSE 11.1 on a Pentium90 with 256Mb. After installation I reduced the RAM to 96Mb - the system is running fine. It serves no practical purpose of course, but it shows that openSUSE 11.1 will run quite well even on that very minimal hardware - but it won't run KDE nor Firefox.

I think this discussion is interesting, but it doesn't really belong to this mailing list where it can unfortunately hide some important discussion about Factory itself (especially with the current "Status: distribution" subject of the mail thread). I'd suggest you continue on some other mailing list, like the opensuse@ one. (replying to the latest mail I received on this thread, so that's really nothing against Per or Hans, or anybody else who participated in this thread) Thanks, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 02 October 2009 09:59:44 Hans Witvliet wrote:

Such as... pen-and-paper, abacus?

Stop being a pedant. If you have an older machine with limited resources you have a few choices. There are lightweight desktop environments such as fluxbox and xfce but I think you probably already know about these. You have no right to expect that a personal computer will run *all* software written in the next 20 years efficiently, or at all.

People writing bloatware, that claim even more resources without adding functionality or the chance to alternatives should be flogged in public.

No, people using free software then bitching because your computer is too old to run it efficiently should be flogged in public. Nobody is forcing you to use this software. Either use software that it *can* run efficiently, write your own software, upgrade your hardware or STFU. -- “Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.” ☘ Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

my experience with KDE 4.1 - 3 is that it's gotten a lot more efficient recently. kwin & plasma used to run away with my CPU frequently, but that's a lot better now.

I'd agree. I'm running KDE 4.3.1 on an EeePC Netbook (1005HA-H) with 2GB RAM and it's fine. I can watch full screen video, and have Compiz turned on with no real noticeable impact on performance. Admitedly though, Gnome does run slightly better than KDE4.3.1 on this machine.... but only marginally... not enoguh to make a real difference in day-to-day stuff. I'm hoping to try out 11.2 on this netbook :-) C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

My computer has an Alps touchpad that actually works better using the Synaptics driver. Something in my hands force me to turn off tapping on all touchpads, no matter the OS. In 11.1, I could change the driver with the YaST GUI and disable tapping using a MaxTapTime parameter of 0 in xorg.conf. In 11.2, xorg.conf has disappeared, and I have not located where the parameter to disable tapping is located. Any suggestions? I have a workaround that involves copying xorg.conf from my 11.1 installation, but would like to know the approved method. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 10/02/2009 12:03 PM, Stefan Dirsch wrote:

On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 11:25:41AM -0500, Larry Finger wrote:

...

My computer has an Alps touchpad that actually works better using the Synaptics driver. Something in my hands force me to turn off tapping on all touchpads, no matter the OS. In 11.1, I could change the driver with the YaST GUI and disable tapping using a MaxTapTime parameter of 0 in xorg.conf.

In 11.2, xorg.conf has disappeared, and I have not located where the parameter to disable tapping is located. Any suggestions? I have a workaround that involves copying xorg.conf from my 11.1 installation, but would like to know the approved method.

Either use synclient (preferred, works immediately) or add the option to

/usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/11-x11-synaptics.fdi

If you do the latter you probably need to remove /var/cache/hald/fdi-cache and restart hald. Of course you need to restart your Xserver.

The synclient method worked for me. Thanks, Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 11:25:41 -0500 Larry Finger wrote:

In 11.2, xorg.conf has disappeared,

if you run SaX2 - hit 'OK' and select 'Test' and afterwards 'Save' - your xconf.conf file will be created. Regards JAmes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Larry Stotler wrote:

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Stephan seemed to suggest that Thursday was still a possible for M8, which surprised me as my bugreport was a hard show-stopper for any testing on HP Proliants with SMART arrays.  When Stephan suggested I just "fix it myself", I think it got everyones attention.  I still think the thread has taken a stupid turn, even if Stephans suggestion did touch a nerve.

Part of it could be the age of the machine. There's been a definate trend to tell people to upgrade their machines over the last few years.

Could be, but it worked fine with M6 (previous milestone).

I've been told to upgrade the RAM in my P3 laptops or buy new since a P3/500 isn't considered a reasonably useful system to many these days.

There are many things for which such a system is perfectly well suited. I have a test-system cluster made up of 2+4 P3/500 machines, it does a fine job. Granted, for personal/workstation use, I would also deem a P3/500 to be way below reasonable spec. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.0°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 09/29/2009 02:55 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

On Tuesday 29 September 2009 20:31:33 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

I'll take that as irony as in if openSUSE (including Novell) cannot support (and therefore ship it) we are doomed and other distributions will get some more users :-(

Well, what do you suggest? If noone can fix lvm bugs, how are we supposed to help it beside declaring lvm support as broken?

Is it me, or has this thread somehow taken a really stupid turn? I asked a question about an outstanding issue that I reported for M7. Stephan suggested I fix the bug myself, in which case I might as well not have bothered to report it at all. Why are we now discussing whether the openSUSE community can fix LVM problems? Also, AFAICT, the openSUSE community (as a whole) has yet to be charged with solving any of the problems reported in bugzilla, so how do you foresee the community helping with that, Stephan?

/P

No its not you there are flamers and trolls that need to go elsewhere -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

* Lubos Lunak [09-29-09 11:39]:

On Tuesday 29 of September 2009, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Now I keep my mouth shut

No, sadly you don't. For some unknown reason you repeatedly find the time to only complain and demean the work of others who create something. Seriously, the people making openSUSE worse are actually people like you. If you don't want to be part of the solution, at least don't be part of the problem.

Well put and very accurate. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hi, Basil Chupin wrote:

On 09/30/2009 07:12 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Lubos Lunak [09-29-09 11:39]:

...

On Tuesday 29 of September 2009, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Now I keep my mouth shut

No, sadly you don't. For some unknown reason you repeatedly find the time to only complain and demean the work of others who create something. Seriously, the people making openSUSE worse are actually people like you. If you don't want to be part of the solution, at least don't be part of the problem.

Well put and very accurate.

So I expect that you will be putting forward in the very near future a dictum to be adopted by Novell - sorry, the *Community* - called *The openSUSE Patriot Act*

We already have that. Its called the openSUSE Guiding Principles. If i may quote part of it: "... respect for other persons and their contributions, for other opinions and beliefs. We listen to arguments and address problems in a constructive and open way. We believe that a diverse community based on mutual respect is the base for a creative and productive environment enabling the project to be truly successful. We don't tolerate social discrimination and aim at creating an environment where people feel accepted and safe from offense." You frequently fail to do this. You are always very provocative and mostly just offensive. I don't know a single email from you that has any positive content about the openSUSE distribution, the project or the people doing the work. You value nothing we do. You only despise us for our errors. Most people ignore you because they feel demeaned by your statements. And this will only get worse. You should seriously think about other ways to contribute or about leaving this project. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Why do we keep considering Novell anything else than just a community member with big commitment? Because Novell went out its way to acquire SuSE for its own benefit and not for the sake of a "community" effort.

Well, things can change, can't they? And things have changed a _lot_ since November 2003 when the acquisition was announced. One of those changes being that now _everyone_ can contribute, and increasingly easily so.

5 years ago I had pride in waiting to get my copy of the latest SuSE and I had spoken with confidence to my friends using anything other than SuSE about the joy of using SuSE.

Basil, it occurs to me that openSUSE FACTORY simply might not be the best choice for you. I am wondering whether openSUSE 11.1 (and 11.2 when it's been released or closer to the actual release) might be the better option? You mention that you were a happy SUSE Linux user eagerly awaiting the next release, and I think if you go for openSUSE releases instead of snapshots you may have a much better experience. Don't get me wrong, we in the openSUSE project also gladly welcome testers and users of our FACTORY distribution. It's just not fair to compare one with the other. Gerald -- Dr. Gerald Pfeifer E gp@novell.com SUSE Linux Products GmbH Director Product Management F +49(911)74053-483 HRB 16746 (AG Nuremberg) SUSE Linux Enterprise, openSUSE, Appliances GF Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 29 September 2009 15:31:12 Basil Chupin wrote:

And if you look at any application name in YaST2 Software Manager you will see that each entry (from all the ones I have looked at) show the entry, "Supportability: unknown".

Now, this is most telling because the YaST2 rpm itself, which I understand is something written by the SuSE people for SuSE/openSUSE, has this description (Supportability: unknown) attached to it!

Now for this particular issue, would you mind filing a bug (enhancement) so as not to display the information about package supportability on openSUSE? Or to display it in some better way as it is pretty much useless in its current form. To explain in more detail, 'Supportability: unknown' does not mean that the package is unsupported. It only means that openSUSE repositories most likely do not contain metadata about package supportability and I doubt they ever will. This is because data such as 'this package has L[123] support (no customer support, respectively)' are irrelevant to openSUSE users as (unlike enterprise products) there is no such thing like L[123] support for openSUSE. Thus it makes little sense to show that bit of information in the package description. hB. -- \\\\\ Katarina Machalkova \\\\\\\__o YaST developer __\\\\\\\'/_ & hedgehog painter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org