On Sat, Nov 29, 2014, at 03:01 PM, Jon Nelson wrote:

I have to say, on the laptops which run KDE, using network manager is *great*.

agreed.

It has stabilized and works very well. Not being able to have more than one VPN is a problem, but it's a bit on the esoteric side.

Not so esoteric, it's a frequent use case here. Which is why laptops have always (prior to 13.2/wicked) been config'd to switch between traditional ifup/down control & NM

I'm dismayed to see that systemd-networkd is not available as an alternative, but at least network manager works well enough.

NM can be made to work in some cases, certainly. Admittedly, it's a far better option than wicked currently is -- at least routing isn't flaky (I see similar issues), and tunnels are reliable. That said, NM is not a robust server solution and, at least here, will never be seen production servers. For all the whining about "global death & destruction" wrought by have systemd forced upon us with little alternative, (personally, I find it very useful), this wicked situation is far, far more destructive from our perspective. At least with systemd on opensuse, there was at a release cycle + where the previous alternative, sysVinit remained available and fully functional. Not so with wicked. Or, afaict. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/01/2014 04:31 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Jon Nelson [12-01-14 13:24]:

...

I have to say, on the laptops which run KDE, using network manager is *great*. It has stabilized and works very well. Not being able to have more than one VPN is a problem, but it's a bit on the esoteric side.

That said, wicked has caused me some real pain.

On my non-GUI machines (servers, etc), wicked has been a real problem:

- No support for if-up/if-down/if-services

openSUSE 13.2

# ifup wlp3s0 wlp3s0 up

rpm -qf `which ifup` wicked-service-0.6.12-1.1.x86_64

??

Verified here: finger@linux:~/rtl8188eu> sudo ifup enp0s25 wicked: ifup: no matching interfaces Configured here finger@linux:~/rtl8188eu> sudo ifup enp0s25 enp0s25 up finger@linux:~/rtl8188eu> sudo ifdown enp0s25 enp0s25 device-ready finger@linux:~/rtl8188eu> sudo ifup wlp4s0 wlp4s0 up finger@linux:~/rtl8188eu> ping -c 5 192.168.1.1 PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=3.96 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=2.79 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=2.60 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=2.31 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=2.47 ms --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics --- 5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 4006ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 2.317/2.831/3.962/0.590 ms Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi there, On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, 09:42:43 +0100, Freek de Kruijf wrote:

Op maandag 1 december 2014 17:31:58 schreef Patrick Shanahan:

...

* Jon Nelson [12-01-14 13:24]:

...

I have to say, on the laptops which run KDE, using network manager is *great*. It has stabilized and works very well. Not being able to have more than one VPN is a problem, but it's a bit on the esoteric side.

That said, wicked has caused me some real pain.

On my non-GUI machines (servers, etc), wicked has been a real problem:

- No support for if-up/if-down/if-services

openSUSE 13.2

# ifup wlp3s0 wlp3s0 up

rpm -qf `which ifup` wicked-service-0.6.12-1.1.x86_64

??

Easy. The file ifup is present in the package wicked-service. So you still can use the commands ifup, ifdown and other if... commands. Maybe the problem is the dash (-) in the above mentioned commands.

"normal" ifup/ifdown works, that's not the issue. wicked's ifup and ifdown however have silently removed support for scripts which are executed when an interface comes up or goes down. These scripts are typically stored in the /etc/sysconfig/network/if-{up,down}.d/ directories. Here is an excerpt from the ifup manual page on 13.1: /etc/sysconfig/network/if-{up,down}.d/ Scripts in these directories will be executed when any interface is started, if-up.d, and when any interface is stopped, if-down.d. They have to be exe- cutable and may also be binary. The execution of these programs is controlled by the variables GLOBAL_POST_UP_EXEC and GLOBAL_PRE_DOWN_EXEC in the network configuration file /etc/sysconfig/network/config These are not interface spe- cific, and can have any name. If you need interface/configfile specific scripts to be executed have a look at PRE_UP_SCRIPT, POST_UP_SCRIPT, PRE_DOWN_SCRIPTand POST_DOWN_SCRIPT. HTH, cheers. l8er manfred

Manfred Hollstein wrote:

Hi there,

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, 09:42:43 +0100, Freek de Kruijf wrote:

...

Op maandag 1 december 2014 17:31:58 schreef Patrick Shanahan:

...

* Jon Nelson [12-01-14 13:24]:

...

I have to say, on the laptops which run KDE, using network manager is *great*. It has stabilized and works very well. Not being able to have more than one VPN is a problem, but it's a bit on the esoteric side.

That said, wicked has caused me some real pain.

On my non-GUI machines (servers, etc), wicked has been a real problem:

- No support for if-up/if-down/if-services

openSUSE 13.2

# ifup wlp3s0 wlp3s0 up

rpm -qf `which ifup` wicked-service-0.6.12-1.1.x86_64

??

Easy. The file ifup is present in the package wicked-service. So you still can use the commands ifup, ifdown and other if... commands. Maybe the problem is the dash (-) in the above mentioned commands.

"normal" ifup/ifdown works, that's not the issue. wicked's ifup and ifdown however have silently removed support for scripts which are executed when an interface comes up or goes down. These scripts are typically stored in the /etc/sysconfig/network/if-{up,down}.d/ directories.

This was surely already reported as bug? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (5.2°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Noting the lack of info/comment suse/opensuse dev re: plans/progress on (m)any of the wicked related issues since 13.2 release -- either here, wicked list, or @ bugzilla, and taking a look at https://github.com/openSUSE/wicked/issues it's not clear to me what's prioritized, or timeframe for fixes -- soon? next release? never? Since we certainly can't make progress alone in a vaccuum, we're evaluating (comparing to alternatives) ripping wicked out, and reenabling traditional if-up/down network mgmt in an internal fork 13.2+. at best, it looks messy; but, we intend to have a working solution. b4 reinventing the wheel, thought I'd ask in here: is anyone here aware of any work already done in this direction? specifically, removing/replacing wicked with 'old, traditional' networking, either as an optional alternative or a complete replacement? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

John, On Sun, Feb 01, 2015 at 10:29:07PM +0000, John S wrote:

writes:

...

Upgrade from 13.1 -> 13.2 removed support for traditional/stable

if-up/if-down network control,

...

replacing it with wicked.

[...]

Any progress on replacing this horrible network management approach?

If this is about a defect in openSUSE 13.2 please use bugzilla to track the issue. It's also of some value to report the bug IDs back to the general openSUSE lists aka opensuse@opensuse.org No, we don't need 13.2 bug report IDs here. Also ensure to have the recent wicked update installed (0.6.14-4.1).

I have only ever used the traditional/stable if-up/if-down network control on my laptop. In previous versions, individuals could chose between a the largely broken NetworkManager and a reliable set of scripts. A horrible decision was made here to force users into a choice between a largely broken NetworkManager and the broken and untested wicked.

I highly doubt that anyone has done any serious code review on the project from a security perspective. This alone is reason for me to avoid it for years.

I'm using wicked with my openSUSE Factory install and it works reliable. But here the actual use case might make the difference.

Is there a plan to use update-alternatives to offer a choice between the reliable, working set of if-up/if-down network control and the "sexy", non-working wicked?

Please be more productive. Such general criticism - I could even name it FUD ;) - doesn't bring the project forward. Thanks, Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team + SUSE Labs SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany