Hello,
With all the great discussion on the topic, We need to get it going. I like the IRC, but really think a summeray is needed on the email list to keep consistency across time zone.
-- Boyd Gerber gerberb@zenez.com ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Il giorno sab, 03/03/2007 alle 12.07 -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber ha scritto:
Hello,
With all the great discussion on the topic, We need to get it going. I like the IRC, but really think a summeray is needed on the email list to keep consistency across time zone.
Yes of course. I called this "planning" ;-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Alberto Passalacqua schreef:
Il giorno sab, 03/03/2007 alle 12.07 -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber ha scritto:
Hello,
With all the great discussion on the topic, We need to get it going. I like the IRC, but really think a summeray is needed on the email list to keep consistency across time zone.
Yes of course. I called this "planning" ;-)
Can anybody mail the #channel? (when decided) I have to attend the family affairs now.... About timezone: over here it is: 20:55.. - --
Have a nice day,
M9. Now, is the only time that exists.
OS: Linux 2.6.18.2-34-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@tribal-sfn2 Systeem: openSUSE 10.2 (X86-64) KDE: 3.5.5 "release 45.2"
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Boyd Lynn Gerber schreef:
Hello,
With all the great discussion on the topic, We need to get it going. I like the IRC, but really think a summeray is needed on the email list to keep consistency across time zone.
Offcourse, that is unavoidable, or enevedible, and nessesary...
-- Boyd Gerber gerberb@zenez.com ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
- --
Have a nice day,
M9. Now, is the only time that exists.
OS: Linux 2.6.18.2-34-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@tribal-sfn2 Systeem: openSUSE 10.2 (X86-64) KDE: 3.5.5 "release 45.2"
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 03 March 2007 19:07:19 Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
Hello,
With all the great discussion on the topic, We need to get it going. I like the IRC, but really think a summeray is needed on the email list to keep consistency across time zone.
I don't see any problem with adding a summary sometime to the list as well, though if people temporarily subscribe to the bug list too they'll get a rundown.
Just a note that I don't necessarily think that the Bug triage day(s) should happen just yet -- I think the ideal time is just a couple or so months before release, where changes can still be made, but there's feature freeze etc. That would be the most productive time for it, I believe.
Kind thoughts,
Il giorno dom, 04/03/2007 alle 13.18 +0000, Francis Giannaros ha scritto:
Just a note that I don't necessarily think that the Bug triage day(s) should happen just yet -- I think the ideal time is just a couple or so months before release, where changes can still be made, but there's feature freeze etc. That would be the most productive time for it, I believe.
Yes! I agree on this. Doing them now is premature in my opinion because too many changes and features still have to be introduced.
Regards, Alberto
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 March 2007 08:56, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
Il giorno dom, 04/03/2007 alle 13.18 +0000, Francis Giannaros ha
scritto:
Just a note that I don't necessarily think that the Bug triage day(s) should happen just yet -- I think the ideal time is just a couple or so months before release, where changes can still be made, but there's feature freeze etc. That would be the most productive time for it, I believe.
Yes! I agree on this. Doing them now is premature in my opinion because too many changes and features still have to be introduced.
Any day is good to start. Can we move a bit at least last 4 that are marked critical, please see my answer to Boyd. None seems to be really high priority and can be good for a warmup.
Regards, Alberto
Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
Il giorno dom, 04/03/2007 alle 13.18 +0000, Francis Giannaros ha scritto:
Just a note that I don't necessarily think that the Bug triage day(s) should happen just yet -- I think the ideal time is just a couple or so months before release, where changes can still be made, but there's feature freeze etc. That would be the most productive time for it, I believe.
Yes! I agree on this. Doing them now is premature in my opinion because too many changes and features still have to be introduced.
Regards, Alberto
I disagree with this,
I think that a bug review should be scheduled as soon as reasonable. While your statements about it being too early are true for the bugs listed against the 10.3 release, the bugs listed against the older releases should really be addressed as quickly as possible so that they stand a chance of making it into the 10.3 at all.
If you wait too long on this, they will skip yet another release cycle.
I think that the early alpha time frame is ideal to review bugs against the older releases otherwise fixing them might introduce too much churn to be included after a feature freeze.
Thoughts?
Il giorno mer, 07/03/2007 alle 13.50 -0700, Ted Bullock ha scritto:
Alberto Passalacqua wrote: I disagree with this,
I think that a bug review should be scheduled as soon as reasonable. While your statements about it being too early are true for the bugs listed against the 10.3 release, the bugs listed against the older releases should really be addressed as quickly as possible so that they stand a chance of making it into the 10.3 at all.
If you wait too long on this, they will skip yet another release cycle.
I think that the early alpha time frame is ideal to review bugs against the older releases otherwise fixing them might introduce too much churn to be included after a feature freeze.
Thoughts?
First we should understand if these bugs are suse-specific or are present in the upstream code. And, if so, we should verify if they have been already solved there.
With kind regards, Alberto
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Den Wednesday 07 March 2007 21:50:52 skrev Ted Bullock:
I think that a bug review should be scheduled as soon as reasonable. While your statements about it being too early are true for the bugs listed against the 10.3 release, the bugs listed against the older releases should really be addressed as quickly as possible so that they stand a chance of making it into the 10.3 at all.
If you wait too long on this, they will skip yet another release cycle.
I think that the early alpha time frame is ideal to review bugs against the older releases otherwise fixing them might introduce too much churn to be included after a feature freeze.
I agree. A bugday relatively soon could be useful and good fun. It seems the devs need help with getting around the ~1200 bugs open for 10.2.
Though I realize that everybody is busy working on the service pack. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 07 March 2007 20:50:52 you wrote:
Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
Il giorno dom, 04/03/2007 alle 13.18 +0000, Francis Giannaros ha
scritto:
Just a note that I don't necessarily think that the Bug triage day(s) should happen just yet -- I think the ideal time is just a couple or so months before release, where changes can still be made, but there's feature freeze etc. That would be the most productive time for it, I believe.
Yes! I agree on this. Doing them now is premature in my opinion because too many changes and features still have to be introduced.
Regards, Alberto
I disagree with this,
I think that a bug review should be scheduled as soon as reasonable. While your statements about it being too early are true for the bugs listed against the 10.3 release, the bugs listed against the older releases should really be addressed as quickly as possible so that they stand a chance of making it into the 10.3 at all.
If you wait too long on this, they will skip yet another release cycle.
I think that the early alpha time frame is ideal to review bugs against the older releases otherwise fixing them might introduce too much churn to be included after a feature freeze.
Thoughts?
The point of course is to not way *too* long, so that changes can still be put into effect, but not too early, before the features and new packages are in. If that happens, then we'll start fixing/cleaning up places of bugs, but then a whole horde of other ones might be created before release. A couple of months before release time sounds good to me.
Kind thoughts,
Il giorno gio, 08/03/2007 alle 12.20 +0000, Francis Giannaros ha scritto:
A couple of months before release time sounds good to me.
I agree with Francis on this. If the release is on september, June-July should be OK, considering the off-work period of August 8-)
Regards, Alberto
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 13:13 +0100, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
Il giorno gio, 08/03/2007 alle 12.20 +0000, Francis Giannaros ha scritto:
A couple of months before release time sounds good to me.
I agree with Francis on this. If the release is on september, June-July should be OK, considering the off-work period of August 8-)
How about if we start going through the bugs for 10.1 and 10.2 (not all bugs need fixing in those versions but could be fixed in 10.3. Some of them would need fixing in those versions and we would leave them alone) prior to June/July and reassign/close/raise them as needed? We could do a session and involve someone from SUSE to make sure that we're doing the right thing (tm).
If so, we need a list of bugs to start with (ie. any bug that has status open, needinfo, assigned, reopened and belongs to 10.1 and 10.2 AND have a resolution of later, remind and moved)
Regards, Alberto
Cheers, Magnus
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Magnus Boman wrote:
How about if we start going through the bugs for 10.1 and 10.2
yes
NO bug should stay for old version open if nobody works on it.
Old bugs should be noted:
wontfix if fixing is not an issue critical is this one needs really be solved even on this old version moved to the upper version if important and still present
and this must be done with comment.
nobody should leave a house uncleaned :-)))
jdd
On Friday 09 March 2007 07:41, jdd wrote:
NO bug should stay for old version open if nobody works on it.
Old bugs should be noted:
The problem is that bugs are there and simply closing is not good option, as even very old ones are usually just carried over: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=189655 is still there and here is the mail thread http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2007-03/msg00513.html
That is something in the kernel driver for that particular card and it is not fixed, obviously.
BTW, is there any other activity, except this here.
On Saturday 10 March 2007 03:57:29 Rajko M. wrote:
BTW, is there any other activity, except this here.
I haven't really announced it anywhere yet, but I've got a bugbot (information at http://francis.giannaros.org/bugbot) in #openSUSE-bugs (on Freenode of course) where it reports all new bugs/changes. I was thinking also that the channel will eventually (whenever we have a bug day) become the place for the bug triaging efforts.
Kind thoughts,
Now is probably the latest time to run this bug day thing if it is going to have any sizable effect on 10.3. Alpha period is almost over (only two alpha releases left to make changes in).
Suggessted Wiki Node for Bug Triage Day (http://en.opensuse.org/Bug:Triage_Day)
I'd like to schedule this for next week/weekend
-Ted
Ted Bullock wrote:
Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
Il giorno dom, 04/03/2007 alle 13.18 +0000, Francis Giannaros ha scritto:
Just a note that I don't necessarily think that the Bug triage day(s) should happen just yet -- I think the ideal time is just a couple or so months before release, where changes can still be made, but there's feature freeze etc. That would be the most productive time for it, I believe.
Yes! I agree on this. Doing them now is premature in my opinion because too many changes and features still have to be introduced.
Regards, Alberto
I disagree with this,
I think that a bug review should be scheduled as soon as reasonable. While your statements about it being too early are true for the bugs listed against the 10.3 release, the bugs listed against the older releases should really be addressed as quickly as possible so that they stand a chance of making it into the 10.3 at all.
If you wait too long on this, they will skip yet another release cycle.
I think that the early alpha time frame is ideal to review bugs against the older releases otherwise fixing them might introduce too much churn to be included after a feature freeze.
Thoughts?
Well, yes. Bug day(s) is very important for our project.
Il giorno ven, 01/06/2007 alle 07.34 -0600, Ted Bullock ha scritto:
Now is probably the latest time to run this bug day thing if it is going to have any sizable effect on 10.3.
We still are in alpha stage. I'd wait for the latest alpha first, and then plan it.
With kind regards, A.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Why do you believe that waiting until later is a good idea?
Novell/openSUSE are not agile. If the bug day(s) identify anything that will require major changes, it needs to occur BEFORE or during early alpha (like when this idea was first floated several months ago).
Waiting until beta is FAR to late to have an impact on 10.3, since things will be frozen. This should not be just house cleaning for bugzilla, this should be a real drive to improve the quality of the release by fixing bugs that have persisted for ages.
As it is, I believe there simply is not enough time to handle major fixes and churn before the planned release date in October.
This coming week is the PERFECT time to schedule the community triage activity since there are still two alpha releases left before the freezes start happening.
I'm going to start Monday afternoon after work from 10.0 and make my way forward. I'll try to put a bug list together tonight. Watch http://en.opensuse.org/Bug:Triage_Day for more information sometime before the close of the weekend.
-Ted
Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
Il giorno ven, 01/06/2007 alle 07.34 -0600, Ted Bullock ha scritto:
Now is probably the latest time to run this bug day thing if it is going to have any sizable effect on 10.3.
We still are in alpha stage. I'd wait for the latest alpha first, and then plan it.
With kind regards, A.
.
Den Sunday 03 June 2007 01:19:55 skrev Ted Bullock:
Why do you believe that waiting until later is a good idea?
AJ said he'd like a bugday sometime before feature freeze. So sometime between last alpha and first beta, seems a good idea.
Having an earlier bugday too might be doable and would be good practice.
This should not be just house cleaning for bugzilla, this should be a real drive to improve the quality of the release by fixing bugs that have persisted for ages.
That would mean the devs are aware of them and haven't been able to fix them for ages? Do you mean community people should be able to fix them in an afternoon? If not all we can do is provide info and perhaps alter status of some bugs.. house cleaning. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Martin Schlander wrote:
That would mean the devs are aware of them and haven't been able to fix them for ages? Do you mean community people should be able to fix them in an afternoon? If not all we can do is provide info and perhaps alter status of some bugs.. house cleaning.
don't forget many open bugs are for previous distros. This should be cleaned up, because most of them wont ever be fixed. If the bug is still present in last alpha, it should be moved and if not closed as fixed on more recent distro
jdd
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
jdd schreef:
Martin Schlander wrote:
That would mean the devs are aware of them and haven't been able to fix them for ages? Do you mean community people should be able to fix them in an afternoon? If not all we can do is provide info and perhaps alter status of some bugs.. house cleaning.
don't forget many open bugs are for previous distros. This should be cleaned up, because most of them wont ever be fixed. If the bug is still present in last alpha, it should be moved and if not closed as fixed on more recent distro
jdd
Yes, this is not so hard. The reporters get a mail, whenever somebody writes something to their bug(s). So if there is asked if the bug still persists, or is present, and time is given to react, the bug can be closed after negative, or no response in the given time. (It can be reopend, or a new bug will be filed.)
- --
Have a nice day,
M9. Now, is the only time that exists.
OS: Linux 2.6.18.8-03-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@tribal-sfn2 Systeem: openSUSE 10.2 (X86-64) KDE: 3.5.5 "release 45.4"
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
That would mean the devs are aware of them and haven't been able to fix them for ages?
Ignored is the right word, at least for many of them.
Do you mean community people should be able to fix them in an afternoon? If not all we can do is provide info and perhaps alter status of some bugs.. house cleaning.
Community can't fix much if the openSUSE developers won't have an active part in the bug triage days.
Regards, A.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Il giorno sab, 02/06/2007 alle 17.19 -0600, Ted Bullock ha scritto:
Why do you believe that waiting until later is a good idea?
Because many of the most important changes still have to take place in openSUSE 10.3.
Regards, A.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi Ted,
On Friday 01 June 2007 08:34, Ted Bullock wrote:
Now is probably the latest time to run this bug day thing if it is going to have any sizable effect on 10.3. Alpha period is almost over (only two alpha releases left to make changes in).
Suggessted Wiki Node for Bug Triage Day (http://en.opensuse.org/Bug:Triage_Day)
Colon is in Mediawiki used to mark namespaces. Considering that our wiki is used for different purpose than Mediawiki software was developed for it is possible to introduce namespace Bug: and use for debugging related articles.
To see this happen we need just few more votes on opensuse-wiki mail list.
I'd like to schedule this for next week/weekend
-Ted
I think this way: Any day is good with followups on above page used to prevent duplicate effort.
Take ownership of few bugs, look around, mail to software developers, mail to bug reporter, solve what is possible by yourself, in short take care of what is possible to be solved.
The example, how I would organize this is written on http://en.opensuse.org/Bug:Triage_Day ;-) In example list GIMP I know that one of bugs is already solved upstream ;-)
....
Thoughts?
Do you agree with proposal?
So, what needs to be done to get this going (besides announcing a day)?
I'm in favor of doing it soon - and repeat if needed ;-)
Andreas
....To the right list this time; this reply-to business will really be the death of me ;)
On 6/4/07, Andreas Jaeger aj@suse.de wrote:
So, what needs to be done to get this going (besides announcing a day)?
I'm in favor of doing it soon - and repeat if needed ;-)
Andreas
After speaking quickly to a few people on IRC we're thinking of the weekend on the 16-17 of June. This is only one day after alpha5, but I'm not sure we should wait a whole week later for the next weekend.
So, to sum up, the plan would be: * Have one bug day for clearing out old bugs (say, from 10.1) which would be just after alpha5 time. Also encourage users to file enhancement requests for 10.3 at this time, otherwise they may not be implementable later.
* Have another bug day after beta1 time (we don't have to think about the date yet) for trying to really concentrate on all 10.3 bugs.
* Can take place in #opensuse-bugs. bugbot currently reports all openSUSE bug changes in there, but we'll change it at the time to only report _new_ bugs to get the traffic down.
I'm thinking we should only announce a day or two before the bug day, so it's fresh in people's minds :).
Thoughts?
Regards, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
"Francis Giannaros" francisg@gmail.com writes:
....To the right list this time; this reply-to business will really be the death of me ;)
On 6/4/07, Andreas Jaeger aj@suse.de wrote:
So, what needs to be done to get this going (besides announcing a day)?
I'm in favor of doing it soon - and repeat if needed ;-)
Andreas
After speaking quickly to a few people on IRC we're thinking of the weekend on the 16-17 of June. This is only one day after alpha5, but I'm not sure we should wait a whole week later for the next weekend.
So, to sum up, the plan would be:
- Have one bug day for clearing out old bugs (say, from 10.1) which
would be just after alpha5 time. Also encourage users to file enhancement requests for 10.3 at this time, otherwise they may not be implementable later.
- Have another bug day after beta1 time (we don't have to think about
the date yet) for trying to really concentrate on all 10.3 bugs.
- Can take place in #opensuse-bugs. bugbot currently reports all
openSUSE bug changes in there, but we'll change it at the time to only report _new_ bugs to get the traffic down.
I'm thinking we should only announce a day or two before the bug day, so it's fresh in people's minds :).
Do we need to write some policies for this? Or is what we have sufficient?
Andreas
On Mon, 2007-06-04 at 14:47 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
"Francis Giannaros" francisg@gmail.com writes:
....To the right list this time; this reply-to business will really be the death of me ;)
On 6/4/07, Andreas Jaeger aj@suse.de wrote:
So, what needs to be done to get this going (besides announcing a day)?
I'm in favor of doing it soon - and repeat if needed ;-)
Andreas
After speaking quickly to a few people on IRC we're thinking of the weekend on the 16-17 of June. This is only one day after alpha5, but I'm not sure we should wait a whole week later for the next weekend.
So, to sum up, the plan would be:
- Have one bug day for clearing out old bugs (say, from 10.1) which
would be just after alpha5 time. Also encourage users to file enhancement requests for 10.3 at this time, otherwise they may not be implementable later.
- Have another bug day after beta1 time (we don't have to think about
the date yet) for trying to really concentrate on all 10.3 bugs.
- Can take place in #opensuse-bugs. bugbot currently reports all
openSUSE bug changes in there, but we'll change it at the time to only report _new_ bugs to get the traffic down.
I'm thinking we should only announce a day or two before the bug day, so it's fresh in people's minds :).
Do we need to write some policies for this? Or is what we have sufficient?
I think you made it clear in the status meeting, no? If there's a bug that we can not decide what to do with it, then we'll assign it to you? I guess my concern is, what if a bug is already assigned? As I see it, we have a few options on what to do with each bug;
1. Close it if it's a "silly" bug (who decides what is silly?) 2. Move the bug forward to Factory if we think it's important for the next version, but to big to be fixed for the current version 3. Ping the assigned developer (if there's an assigned developer. Else, assign to AJ@suse.de and ping) 4. Close bug if people's involved can not reproduce and "need info" has not been replied to in 1-6 months
Andreas
I probably missed other scenarios but...
Cheers, Magnus
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Do we need to write some policies for this? Or is what we have sufficient?
"scan the bug list right now and add you as bugs mail recipient (fix this sentence, I don't know the exact wording) to be up and running when the day begin"
jdd
On Saturday 03 March 2007 13:07, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
Hello,
With all the great discussion on the topic, We need to get it going. I like the IRC, but really think a summeray is needed on the email list to keep consistency across time zone.
You are right. While presence of bug owners gives better chance to go in right direction we can look in: https://bugzilla.novell.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc... and try to find out where to start with.
Bug 250741 - X11 window manager will not start from GDM screen. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=250741 It seems that it affects only GNOME installation updated using Smart Package Manager.
Bug 250428 - leak of advansys.ko module in 64 bit kernel https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=250428 It affects not so many, but those that are affected are good buyers.
Bug 250310 - Lock-up during activating "device mapper" if wireless card was disabled via hardware https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=250310 Anybody with HP pavilion 5200 with a Intel wireless card (ipw3945)?
Bug 249870 - No sound on Lenovo 3000 C200 laptop with open SUSE 10.2 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=249870 What is music, and what is sound?
-
Alberto Passalacqua -
Alexey Eremenko -
Andreas Jaeger -
Boyd Lynn Gerber -
Francis Giannaros -
jdd -
M9. -
Magnus Boman -
Martin Schlander -
Rajko M. -
Ted Bullock