[opensuse-factory] No updates of any description to 11.2 (MS6)?
I've had 11.2 MS6 installed for several days now and have the .../factory/repo/oss and ..../non-oss, as well as the other Community repos, installed. Yet over this period there have been no updates to any installed files. I only use YaST (and Online Update applet) to check for new updates. Is it a natural thing that there have not been any updates or is it because I am using the 'normal' built-in YaST update facility and should be using something else? BC -- "There are none so blind as those who will not see." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
fredag 04 september 2009 08.30.46 skrev Basil Chupin:
I've had 11.2 MS6 installed for several days now and have the .../factory/repo/oss and ..../non-oss, as well as the other Community repos, installed.
Yet over this period there have been no updates to any installed files.
I only use YaST (and Online Update applet) to check for new updates.
I actually have the same question for PackageKit (also the backend for Online Update applet?) applet. it never offers any updates, is it only supposed to show "official" updates from updates repo? and not from other repos?
Is it a natural thing that there have not been any updates or is it because I am using the 'normal' built-in YaST update facility and should be using something else?
BC
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Fredag den 4. september 2009 10:40:01 skrev Per Osbäck:
I actually have the same question for PackageKit (also the backend for Online Update applet?) applet.
it never offers any updates, is it only supposed to show "official" updates from updates repo? and not from other repos?
Yes it's only supposed to show patches by default - not "normal" package updates. I think the option to show all updates, may only be supported by the zypp backend. Personally I think it's good that the updater applet distinguishes between patches and random package updates that are likely to break things. People should use zypper dup for factory upgrades anyway. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Martin Schlander wrote:
Fredag den 4. september 2009 10:40:01 skrev Per Osbäck:
I actually have the same question for PackageKit (also the backend for Online Update applet?) applet.
it never offers any updates, is it only supposed to show "official" updates from updates repo? and not from other repos?
Yes it's only supposed to show patches by default - not "normal" package updates.
I think the option to show all updates, may only be supported by the zypp backend.
Personally I think it's good that the updater applet distinguishes between patches and random package updates that are likely to break things. People should use zypper dup for factory upgrades anyway.
Ah, is that what I am not doing right, "zypper dup". OK, I'll try it first thing tomorrow. Thanks. BC -- "There are none so blind as those who will not see." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
fredag 04 september 2009 11.23.44 skrev Basil Chupin:
Martin Schlander wrote:
Fredag den 4. september 2009 10:40:01 skrev Per Osbäck:
I actually have the same question for PackageKit (also the backend for Online Update applet?) applet.
it never offers any updates, is it only supposed to show "official" updates from updates repo? and not from other repos?
Yes it's only supposed to show patches by default - not "normal" package updates.
I think the option to show all updates, may only be supported by the zypp backend.
Personally I think it's good that the updater applet distinguishes between patches and random package updates that are likely to break things. People should use zypper dup for factory upgrades anyway.
hmm..ok..so I won't be notified about updates from build service repos either.. If I want to follow the latest KDE after 11.2 is released for example, I have to manually check for updates. Why can't the update applet do this? It doesn't make much sense to me..
Ah, is that what I am not doing right, "zypper dup". OK, I'll try it first thing tomorrow. Thanks.
BC
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On Friday 04 September 2009 11:48:45 Per Osbäck wrote:
hmm..ok..so I won't be notified about updates from build service repos either.. If I want to follow the latest KDE after 11.2 is released for example, I have to manually check for updates.
Why can't the update applet do this? It doesn't make much sense to me..
It can. Select the zypp plugin in the applet configuration. That will give you two tabs in the "details" view. Patches and Upgrades. Patches is security updates, and Upgrades is for all the other packages Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Martin Schlander wrote:
Fredag den 4. september 2009 10:40:01 skrev Per Osbäck:
I actually have the same question for PackageKit (also the backend for Online Update applet?) applet.
it never offers any updates, is it only supposed to show "official" updates from updates repo? and not from other repos?
Yes it's only supposed to show patches by default - not "normal"
On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:23:44 +1000, Basil Chupin
updates.
I think the option to show all updates, may only be supported by the zypp backend.
Personally I think it's good that the updater applet distinguishes between patches and random package updates that are likely to break things. People should use zypper dup for factory upgrades anyway.
hmm...ok..so I won't be notified about updates from build service repos then!? If I want to follow the latest KDE after 11.2 is released for example I have to manually check for updates using zypper up? Personally I think it should offer all available updates. It doesn't make sense that I have make use of several tools to update my system, especially when there is the build service that builds against 11.2. If I add a repo, I want to be notifed about updates from the repo.
Ah, is that what I am not doing right, "zypper dup". OK, I'll try it first thing tomorrow. Thanks.
BC
-- "There are none so blind as those who will not see."
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Fredag den 4. september 2009 11:58:36 skrev Per Osbäck:
hmm...ok..so I won't be notified about updates from build service repos then!?
If I want to follow the latest KDE after 11.2 is released for example I have to manually check for updates using zypper up?
Personally I think it should offer all available updates. It doesn't make sense that I have make use of several tools to update my system, especially when there is the build service that builds against 11.2. If I add a repo, I want to be notifed about updates from the repo.
It's a very old discussion, which has been had many times before. In my mind it makes perfect sense - you use zypper patch/kupdateapplet/YOU to *fix* your system (patches). Most users expect updates suggested by the updater applet to be safe to install. And you use zypper up/yast2 sw_single to *break* your system (packman, OBS repos). (and 'zypper dup' to distupgrade your factory which is usually about 50/50 breakage and fixage) >:-) It might be desirable for experts that the applet has the (non-default) option to show all updates, like it did with zypp backend, but I don't think the packagekit backend supports that, not sure whether the zypp backend is still available in 11.2. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Fredag den 4. september 2009 11:58:36 skrev Per Osbäck:
hmm...ok..so I won't be notified about updates from build service repos then!?
If I want to follow the latest KDE after 11.2 is released for example I have to manually check for updates using zypper up?
Personally I think it should offer all available updates. It doesn't make sense that I have make use of several tools to update my system, especially when there is the build service that builds against 11.2. If I add a repo, I want to be notifed about updates from the repo.
It's a very old discussion, which has been had many times before.
In my mind it makes perfect sense - you use zypper
to *fix* your system (patches). Most users expect updates suggested by the updater applet to be safe to install.
And you use zypper up/yast2 sw_single to *break* your system (packman, OBS repos).
(and 'zypper dup' to distupgrade your factory which is usually about 50/50 breakage and fixage) >:-)
It might be desirable for experts that the applet has the (non-default) option to show all updates, like it did with zypp backend, but I don't think
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:14:27 +0200, Martin Schlander
packagekit backend supports that, not sure whether the zypp backend is still available in 11.2.
yes I know it has been discussed before, though I don't think it's very clear how it works for the enduser. if a user is capable enough to add a repository he might also expect to be offered updates for it. on the other hand he might then also be capable of starting a terminal and doing zypper up. in my scenario where I "helped" someone to add a repo for openSUSE, I have to explain that "don't forget to manually check for updates every week/month". but if this is the wanted behaviour, like you say, maybe a checkbox in the updater to be able to get all updates with the explanation the this might break your system. per -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Fredag den 4. september 2009 13:33:15 skrev Per Osbäck:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:14:27 +0200, Martin Schlander
It's a very old discussion, which has been had many times before.
In my mind it makes perfect sense
yes I know it has been discussed before, though I don't think it's very clear how it works for the enduser. if a user is capable enough to add a repository he might also expect to be offered updates for it. on the other hand he might then also be capable of starting a terminal and doing zypper up.
in my scenario where I "helped" someone to add a repo for openSUSE, I have to explain that "don't forget to manually check for updates every week/month".
True. But I think this is a far smaller problem, than what they'll get updating everything from 5-10 OBS repos+Packman mindlessly every single day - maybe even thinking it's official, tested openSUSE updates :-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Per Osbäck wrote: <snip>
Personally I think it should offer all available updates. It doesn't make sense that I have make use of several tools to update my system, especially when there is the build service that builds against 11.2. If I add a repo, I want to be notifed about updates from the repo.
It seems to be a bit unclear to you what the difference is between security updates [1] and version upgrades [2] [1] zypper up [2] zypper dup or zypper up -t packages Patches or security updates: The updater applet and zypper up both do the same thing, they show and install patches, that is security updates, sometimes bug fixes. If you set up Automatic updates in YaST, it will add this to your crontab: zypper up -y -t patch --skip-interactive https://localhost:10000/cron/edit_cron.cgi?idx=1 This will automatically install patches (and answer "yes" to license questions) that do not need intervention. A kernel patch will require a reboot, i.e. intervention, so it will be skipped and a mail will be sent to root. Then it can be installed manually. Version upgrades: Zypper dup does version upgrades, that is newer versions of software. The same thing can be done with YaST software management > Package Groups > All > Update if newer version is available. These require the user to see and make choices what to install. It does not make any sense to upgrade everything every time there's something available, believe me. (The old "Don't fix it if it ain't broken" -routine) See also: man zypper Vahis -- "Sunrise 6:23am (EEST), sunset 8:13pm (EEST) at Espoo, Finland (13:49 hours daylight)" http://waxborg.servepics.com Linux 2.6.25.20-0.5-default #1 SMP 2009-08-14 01:48:11 +0200 x86_64 4:17pm up 13 days 21:39, 14 users, load average: 0.06, 0.15, 0.09 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:58:04 +0300, Vahis
Per Osbäck wrote: <snip>
Personally I think it should offer all available updates. It doesn't make sense that I have make use of several tools to update my system, especially when there is the build service that builds against 11.2. If I add a repo, I want to be notifed about updates from the repo.
It seems to be a bit unclear to you what the difference is between security updates [1] and version upgrades [2] [1] zypper up [2] zypper dup or zypper up -t packages
Patches or security updates: The updater applet and zypper up both do the same thing, they show and install patches, that is security updates, sometimes bug fixes. If you set up Automatic updates in YaST, it will add this to your crontab:
zypper up -y -t patch --skip-interactive https://localhost:10000/cron/edit_cron.cgi?idx=1
This will automatically install patches (and answer "yes" to license questions) that do not need intervention. A kernel patch will require a reboot, i.e. intervention, so it will be skipped and a mail will be sent to root. Then it can be installed manually.
Version upgrades: Zypper dup does version upgrades, that is newer versions of software. The same thing can be done with YaST software management > Package Groups > All > Update if newer version is available. These require the user to see and make choices what to install.
It does not make any sense to upgrade everything every time there's something available, believe me. (The old "Don't fix it if it ain't broken" -routine)
See also: man zypper
Vahis
thanks for the explaination, however, at least my zypper up also installs version updates from the repos I have added. what it doesn't do is changing repo for a installed package (which zypper dup does) looking at the confiugration UI for kpackagekit, I can select: "Check for updates": "Hourly" "Notify when updates are available" and I have the list of all added repos. How am I supposed to know that ticking "Notify when updates are available" will only notify me of updates from 1 single repo in the list? That is not very clear to me.
-- "Sunrise 6:23am (EEST), sunset 8:13pm (EEST) at Espoo, Finland (13:49 hours daylight)" http://waxborg.servepics.com Linux 2.6.25.20-0.5-default #1 SMP 2009-08-14 01:48:11 +0200 x86_64 4:17pm up 13 days 21:39, 14 users, load average: 0.06, 0.15, 0.09 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Per Osbäck wrote: <snip>
thanks for the explaination, however, at least my zypper up also installs version updates from the repos I have added.
Those packages are patched ones. Did you look at man zypper? Quote: update (up) [options] [packagename] ... Update installed packages with patches or newer version, where applicable. To update individual packages, specify one or more package names. You can use the '*' and '?' wildcard characters in the package names to specify multiple packages matching the pattern. NOTE: Zypper prefers to update only those packages for which a patch description exists, like on the SUSE update servers. To operate on all packages for which there is a better version instead, select --type package which is also the default in rug compatibility mode.
what it doesn't do is changing repo for a installed package (which zypper dup does)
Zypper dup does not change repos AFAIK. Quote: dist-upgrade (dup) [options] Perform a distribution upgrade. This command performs an update of all packages with a special resolver algorithm which takes care of package splits, pattern and product updates, etc. (But repos can be changed with zypper, man zypper) Vahis -- "Sunrise 6:23am (EEST), sunset 8:13pm (EEST) at Espoo, Finland (13:49 hours daylight)" http://waxborg.servepics.com Linux 2.6.25.20-0.5-default #1 SMP 2009-08-14 01:48:11 +0200 x86_64 5:32pm up 13 days 22:54, 15 users, load average: 0.06, 0.12, 0.19 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 17:34:49 +0300, Vahis
Per Osbäck wrote: <snip>
thanks for the explaination, however, at least my zypper up also installs version updates from the repos I have added.
Those packages are patched ones. Did you look at man zypper?
well...I'd rather trust what the output of "zypper up" shows than the manual then (though it says "or newer version"). I built and packaged the rpm myself in my home project in the build service. "update (up) [options] [packagename] ... Update all or specified installed packages with newer versions, if possible." I'd say that you are not running factory?
Quote: update (up) [options] [packagename] ... Update installed packages with patches or newer version, where applicable.
To update individual packages, specify one or more package names. You can use the '*' and '?' wildcard characters in the package names to specify multiple packages matching the pattern.
NOTE: Zypper prefers to update only those packages for which a patch description exists, like on the SUSE update servers. To operate on all packages for which there is a better version instead, select --type package which is also the default in rug compatibility mode.
what it doesn't do is changing repo for a installed package (which zypper dup does)
Zypper dup does not change repos AFAIK.
Quote: dist-upgrade (dup) [options] Perform a distribution upgrade. This command performs an update of all packages with a special resolver algorithm which takes care of package splits, pattern and product updates, etc.
(But repos can be changed with zypper, man zypper)
Vahis -- "Sunrise 6:23am (EEST), sunset 8:13pm (EEST) at Espoo, Finland (13:49 hours daylight)" http://waxborg.servepics.com Linux 2.6.25.20-0.5-default #1 SMP 2009-08-14 01:48:11 +0200 x86_64 5:32pm up 13 days 22:54, 15 users, load average: 0.06, 0.12, 0.19 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Per Osbäck wrote:
well...I'd rather trust what the output of "zypper up" shows than the manual then (though it says "or newer version"). I built and packaged the rpm myself in my home project in the build service.
"update (up) [options] [packagename] ... Update all or specified installed packages with newer versions, if possible."
I'd say that you are not running factory?
I am but this had not occurred there, sorry for my ignorance. I have only run zypper dup on my current factory. I changed the repos manually from M6's 11.2 to factory. Would zypper dup really have done that? I doubt it. (Because I don't understand why it would do it) Vahis -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Fredag den 4. september 2009 16:34:49 skrev Vahis:
Per Osbäck wrote: <snip>
thanks for the explaination, however, at least my zypper up also installs version updates from the repos I have added.
Those packages are patched ones. Did you look at man zypper?
I think it's you that's a bit outdated :-) 'zypper up' used to default to patches. But since 11.1 'zypper up' updates/upgrades packages, and 'zypper patch' patches. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Martin Schlander wrote:
Fredag den 4. september 2009 16:34:49 skrev Vahis:
Per Osbäck wrote: <snip>
thanks for the explaination, however, at least my zypper up also installs version updates from the repos I have added.
Those packages are patched ones. Did you look at man zypper?
I think it's you that's a bit outdated :-)
'zypper up' used to default to patches. But since 11.1 'zypper up' updates/upgrades packages, and 'zypper patch' patches.
O.K. Sorry everybody, I'm obviously behind my time. I'm running 11.0 "in production". I'm also running factory but I've only run zypper dup on that. I changed the repos of M6 manually from 11.2 to factory, though. Vahis -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
things. People should use zypper dup for factory upgrades anyway. Ah, is that what I am not doing right, "zypper dup". OK, I'll try it first thing tomorrow. Thanks. Before that don't forget to run "zypper refresh" in order to update package lists. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stefan Quandt wrote:
things. People should use zypper dup for factory upgrades anyway.
Ah, is that what I am not doing right, "zypper dup". OK, I'll try it first thing tomorrow. Thanks.
Before that don't forget to run "zypper refresh" in order to update package lists.
Thank you for this; I always run zypper refresh. However, running zypper dup produced the same result as produced by using YaST's Online Update: zilch- nothing to update. But please see my new post, "Disaster - was ..........". Things now are quite "serious" (don't know whether to put in a :-) or a :'( here). BC -- "There are none so blind as those who will not see." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Anders Johansson -
Basil Chupin -
Martin Schlander -
Per Osbäck -
Stefan Quandt -
Vahis