25 Nov
2008
25 Nov
'08
20:36
Hi:
I was wondering where is the "sled_beta" mailing list?
Regards,
Andrew
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25 Nov
25 Nov
20:40
Am Dienstag 25 November 2008 schrieb Andrew Joakimsen:
Hi:
I was wondering where is the "sled_beta" mailing list?
You're asking the wrong audience. Whoever gave you the download
URL for SLED, should have given you the other details too.
Greetings, Stephan
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8 Dec
8 Dec
06:52
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 14:40, Stephan Kulow <coolo(a)novell.com> wrote:
Am Dienstag 25 November 2008 schrieb Andrew
Joakimsen:
That person was Chuck Irwin <CIrwin(a)novell.com>om>, the "Beta Project
Manager" and I did attempt to contact him, but it says his email
address is invalid:
----- The following address had a permanent error -----
<CIrwin(a)novell.com>om>; originally to <cirwin(a)novell.com>
The recipient 'cirwin' is unknown at domain 'novell.com'.
----- the delivery transcript -----
Service not available, closing transmission channel
I am seriously thinking, as much as I like the distribution, to drop
any SUSE support much less test your products. You have people that
are willing to test and all they want in return is the ability to test
your product, a place to report bugs (unless you don't want that) and
a place to discuss it with other testers. This is Linux, there is no
huge "trade secret" at risk... you loose nothing and gain the world
over in terms of usability and debugging when you have a more open
beta test. Instead of welcoming them with open arms you make them jump
through hoops, insult them and are generally not cooperative. I
understand you must be busy, but how hard is it to point someone to a
mailing list and add them to the ACL by their Novell account? Notice I
am not just sending you the questions I actually have, I just want to
be told where to ask them.
When I say you, don't take it personally, I mean the collective of
Novell and SUSE people I have been dealing with. FWIW Chick was the
most helpful person, is that what you do, fire helpful people?
Warmest regards,
Andrew H. Joakimsen
P.S.: If you prefer, feel free to call me on +1.352.3782778
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Hi:
I was wondering where is the "sled_beta" mailing list?
You're asking the wrong audience. Whoever gave you the download
URL for SLED, should have given you the other details too. 
10:02
Andrew Joakimsen schreef:
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 14:40, Stephan Kulow
<coolo(a)novell.com> wrote:
Helas i am also experiencing this atitude more and more lately...
I can imagine that these things are caused by the fact that far to few
people have to make things happen, as the aimed effect of M$, when it
took over SUSE from Novell earlier...(if you cann't beat them, buy
them).. seems they are closer to their goal now...: shut-, or at least,
slow down the speed of the developments of the openSUSE team...
Many people felt SUSE has become part of the 'enemy' now, and turned to
other distros..( a very nasty, and well-aimed side-effect)
So to few people, that have to make/want too many changes at once, which
is always almost impossible, but with this scenario, most certainly,
have to be aware of that, get used to that new fact, and act according
to it, (untill things change for the better again, if, in the worst
case, that will ever happen...)
What would be the most wanted right now, is creating the circumstances
to gain trust, and work hard.
(don't turn against people that want to help, and stay loyal, even now.
Everyone reacting in the mailinglists, means to help, from their point
of vieuw.
Sometimes that causes extra stress..
But it is all energy, to be bent, or transformed to be usefull.. ;)
Now the bugs that had to be out after alpha stage, appear in the last
betas, and the rc's..
This is not what we all wanted, i guess..
If we want to turn this tide, there is only one solution: stick
together, and DONOT want to make more changes than can be handled, to
close to rc stage...
Plan changes carefully, don't take too much hay on the fork, so to speak...
Please take these words to hearth, they are meant to heal, not to hurt.. ;)
(a loyal tester and bugseeker)
--
Enjoy your time around,
Oddball (M9.) (Now or never...)
OS: Linux 2.6.27.7-8-default x86_64
Huidige gebruiker: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1
Systeem: openSUSE 11.2 Alpha 0 (x86_64)
KDE: 4.1.3 (KDE 4.1.3) "release 4.6"
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Am Dienstag 25 November 2008 schrieb Andrew
Joakimsen:
That person was Chuck Irwin <CIrwin(a)novell.com>om>, the "Beta Project
Manager" and I did attempt to contact him, but it says his email
address is invalid:
----- The following address had a permanent error -----
<CIrwin(a)novell.com>om>; originally to <cirwin(a)novell.com>
The recipient 'cirwin' is unknown at domain 'novell.com'.
----- the delivery transcript -----
Service not available, closing transmission channel
I am seriously thinking, as much as I like the distribution, to drop
any SUSE support much less test your products. You have people that
are willing to test and all they want in return is the ability to test
your product, a place to report bugs (unless you don't want that) and
a place to discuss it with other testers. This is Linux, there is no
huge "trade secret" at risk... you loose nothing and gain the world
over in terms of usability and debugging when you have a more open
beta test. Instead of welcoming them with open arms you make them jump
through hoops, insult them and are generally not cooperative. I
understand you must be busy, but how hard is it to point someone to a
mailing list and add them to the ACL by their Novell account? Notice I
am not just sending you the questions I actually have, I just want to
be told where to ask them.
When I say you, don't take it personally, I mean the collective of
Novell and SUSE people I have been dealing with. FWIW Chick was the
most helpful person, is that what you do, fire helpful people?
Warmest regards,
Andrew H. Joakimsen
P.S.: If you prefer, feel free to call me on +1.352.3782778
Hi:
I was wondering where is the "sled_beta" mailing list?
You're asking the wrong audience. Whoever gave you the download
URL for SLED, should have given you the other details too.
10:12
Am Montag 08 Dezember 2008 schrieb Oddball:
Please take these words to hearth, they are meant to heal, not to hurt.. ;)
(a loyal tester and bugseeker)
Not sure what you said has anything to do with Andrew's problems with
a completely different product.
Greetings, Stephan
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10:27
Stephan Kulow schreef:
Am Montag 08 Dezember 2008 schrieb Oddball:
What i said there is not about a problem with another product, it is
about (the probable cause) of the reaction towards people that want to
help in some way;)
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OS: Linux 2.6.27.7-8-default x86_64
Huidige gebruiker: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1
Systeem: openSUSE 11.2 Alpha 0 (x86_64)
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Please take these words to hearth, they are meant
to heal, not to hurt.. ;)
(a loyal tester and bugseeker)
Not sure what you said has anything to do with Andrew's problems with
a completely different product.
Greetings, Stephan
11:45
You're borking up the wrong tree. Novell has different beta programs
with different ways of interaction and those have special roles and
special support to deliver specific results - and you were not approved
(as many others) for one of these.
There's not much we can help you here. Your initial comments have been
forwarded and it's clear now to everybody it does not make sense to have
a download for SLED without any feedback.
Sorry, I can't help you any further here with SLED.
If you have specific problems with openSUSE, you're more than welcome!
Andreas
--
Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj(a)suse.de
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
14:03
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Monday, 2008-12-08 at 11:45 +0100, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
You're borking up the wrong tree. Novell has
different beta programs
with different ways of interaction and those have special roles and
special support to deliver specific results - and you were not approved
(as many others) for one of these.
This is not an answer to what he says his contact person at Novell appears
to have been fired, and his mail is not forwarded to another contact
person. As far as it appears with the posted data, it seems he was
approved by that contact person.
There's not much we can help you here.
You could forward him to another contact person.
- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
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9 Dec
9 Dec
04:25
On Mon, 2008-12-08 at 00:52 -0500, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:
I am seriously thinking, as much as I like the
distribution, to drop
any SUSE support much less test your products. You have people that
are willing to test and all they want in return is the ability to test
your product, a place to report bugs (unless you don't want that) and
a place to discuss it with other testers. This is Linux, there is no
huge "trade secret" at risk... you loose nothing and gain the world
over in terms of usability and debugging when you have a more open
beta test. Instead of welcoming them with open arms you make them jump
through hoops, insult them and are generally not cooperative. I
understand you must be busy, but how hard is it to point someone to a
mailing list and add them to the ACL by their Novell account? Notice I
am not just sending you the questions I actually have, I just want to
be told where to ask them.
First, there's a possibility that Coolo is asking you to contact your
contact person because he doesn't know what all the different
mailinglists for SLED testing is, since after all this is the openSUSE
Project, which to my knowledge has little to nothing to do with the
internal Novell product beta testing program. Even inside Novell I'm
almost certain the SLED & openSUSE teams are different.
As far as for opening the SLED beta testing system, once again I think
you're misdirecting your words. There's nothing we can do about that,
you'd have to take that up with the leaders of the SLED team. All I can
say is that Novell knows the benefits and risks of open testing, after
all they do have openSUSE. If they thought that it would make business
sense for them, they would do it, I'm sure.
On the topic of the missing email address, with who or where did you
original sign up to test SLED? Can you go back to them and see what
happened to Mr. Irwin? Perhaps there's a simple system error, or emails
have changed. If he really has left the company, then I'm sure they'll
assign you to another contact person.
When I say you, don't take it personally, I mean
the collective of
Novell and SUSE people I have been dealing with. FWIW Chick was the
most helpful person, is that what you do, fire helpful people?
As I said earlier, why do you automatically jump to assuming he's been
fired?
--
Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy - openSUSE Member
Public Mail: <kevin.dupuy(a)opensuse.org>
Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays from the Yeaux!
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04:32
On Mon, 2008-12-08 at 10:02 +0100, Oddball wrote:
Helas i am also experiencing this atitude more and
more lately...
I can imagine that these things are caused by the fact that far to few
people have to make things happen, as the aimed effect of M$, when it
took over SUSE from Novell earlier...(if you cann't beat them, buy
them).. seems they are closer to their goal now...: shut-, or at least,
slow down the speed of the developments of the openSUSE team...
Uh... what? Are you seriously bringing up the dead horse of Microsoft
again? How exactly would you purport that the openSUSE development is
getting worse?
Many people felt SUSE has become part of the
'enemy' now, and turned to
other distros..( a very nasty, and well-aimed side-effect)
This was an early act of some radicals that apparently didn't bother to
look up and believe the openSUSE devs when they said that nothing would
change in the OS being free because of the deal.
So to few people, that have to make/want too many
changes at once, which
is always almost impossible, but with this scenario, most certainly,
have to be aware of that, get used to that new fact, and act according
to it, (untill things change for the better again, if, in the worst
case, that will ever happen...)
What would be the most wanted right now, is creating the circumstances
to gain trust, and work hard.
(don't turn against people that want to help, and stay loyal, even now.
Everyone reacting in the mailinglists, means to help, from their point
of vieuw.
Sometimes that causes extra stress..
But it is all energy, to be bent, or transformed to be usefull.. ;)
Now the bugs that had to be out after alpha stage, appear in the last
betas, and the rc's..
This is not what we all wanted, i guess..
If we want to turn this tide, there is only one solution: stick
together, and DONOT want to make more changes than can be handled, to
close to rc stage...
Plan changes carefully, don't take too much hay on the fork, so to speak...
Please take these words to hearth, they are meant to heal, not to hurt.. ;)
Now this is confusing. You implied that you were upset about the
openSUSE development being hurt, but here you're talking about testers
being turned away, etc., which does not involve the openSUSE
development. Are you referring to the development of SLED or openSUSE?
--
Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy - openSUSE Member
Public Mail: <kevin.dupuy(a)opensuse.org>
Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays from the Yeaux!
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08:13
Kevin Dupuy schreef:
It was not about the OS being free, but people that go away do not come
back easy...
Large profits have been made by Novell last year in the linux division...
as effect of the M$ deal...
Not only testers went away..
I am not upset, i just register the facts that lead to a situation, and
point a way out..
It is all about energy, and how to transform it to have usefull effect,
instead of a destroying one, nothing more..
Forget it, it might not be suitable for a large mailinglist..
--
Enjoy your time around,
Oddball (M9.) (Now or never...)
OS: Linux 2.6.27.7-8-default x86_64
Huidige gebruiker: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1
Systeem: openSUSE 11.2 Alpha 0 (x86_64)
KDE: 4.1.3 (KDE 4.1.3) "release 4.6"
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On Mon, 2008-12-08 at 10:02 +0100, Oddball wrote:
No not worse, just less people to do the the job than before..
About dead horses: They become smellier when dead longer....
as we all are dependable on the laws of cause and effect...
Helas i am also experiencing this atitude more
and more lately...
I can imagine that these things are caused by the fact that far to few
people have to make things happen, as the aimed effect of M$, when it
took over SUSE from Novell earlier...(if you cann't beat them, buy
them).. seems they are closer to their goal now...: shut-, or at least,
slow down the speed of the developments of the openSUSE team...
Uh... what? Are you seriously bringing up the dead horse of Microsoft
again? How exactly would you purport that the openSUSE development is
getting worse?
Many people felt SUSE has become part of the
'enemy' now, and turned to
other distros..( a very nasty, and well-aimed side-effect)
This was an early act of some radicals that apparently didn't bother to
look up and believe the openSUSE devs when they said that nothing would
change in the OS being free because of the deal.
So to few people, that have to make/want too many
changes at once, which
is always almost impossible, but with this scenario, most certainly,
have to be aware of that, get used to that new fact, and act according
to it, (untill things change for the better again, if, in the worst
case, that will ever happen...)
What would be the most wanted right now, is creating the circumstances
to gain trust, and work hard.
(don't turn against people that want to help, and stay loyal, even now.
Everyone reacting in the mailinglists, means to help, from their point
of vieuw.
Sometimes that causes extra stress..
But it is all energy, to be bent, or transformed to be usefull.. ;)
Now the bugs that had to be out after alpha stage, appear in the last
betas, and the rc's..
This is not what we all wanted, i guess..
If we want to turn this tide, there is only one solution: stick
together, and DONOT want to make more changes than can be handled, to
close to rc stage...
Plan changes carefully, don't take too much hay on the fork, so to speak...
Please take these words to hearth, they are meant to heal, not to hurt.. ;)
Now this is confusing. You implied that you were upset about the
openSUSE development being hurt, but here you're talking about testers
being turned away, etc., which does not involve the openSUSE
development. Are you referring to the development of SLED or openSUSE?
10 Dec
10 Dec
05:52
Oddball escribió:
No not worse, just less people to do the the job than
before..
Do you have any evidence to backup your statements or you are just
ranting ? eh ?
It was not about the OS being free, but people that go
away do not come
back easy...
blabla..
Large profits have been made by Novell last year in
the linux division...
as effect of the M$ deal...
Do you think it was done for other reasons ? works as expected :P
--
"We have art in order not to die of the truth" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Cristian Rodríguez R.
Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH
Research & Development
http://www.opensuse.org/
05:56
Carlos E. R. escribió:
This is not an answer to what he says his contact
person at Novell
appears to have been fired,
Cool, let's continue developing random theories ! how you know he was
"fired" eh ? isnt people able to purse different interests ?
and his mail is not forwarded to another
contact person.
So you want to contact the same address and get a reply from a different
person ? that's not the way __personal__ email address work...
--
"We have art in order not to die of the truth" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Cristian Rodríguez R.
Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH
Research & Development
http://www.opensuse.org/
08:00
Cristian Rodríguez schreef:
hmmm.... well, lives continue... if changes have been made, the paths
follow..nothing to be done about that.., simple cause and effect. (i did
not make this law..)
i spoke many... the dissappontment was tremendous at the time...
But, whatever one says, there will always be people that do not agree, i
am aware of
that, and it does not disturb me..
if you do not like what i say, do not get upset by reading it, upsetting
or ranting is not my intention, you are free to choose..
Offcourse it was done for that reason, but that doesn't change other
effects, like it or not.
--
Enjoy your time around,
Oddball (M9.) (Now or never...)
OS: Linux 2.6.27.7-8-default x86_64
Huidige gebruiker: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1
Systeem: openSUSE 11.2 Alpha 0 (x86_64)
KDE: 4.1.3 (KDE 4.1.3) "release 4.6"
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Oddball escribió:
? Did you read what i wrote?
No not worse, just less people to do the the job
than before..
Do you have any evidence to backup your statements or you are just
ranting ? eh ?
It was not about the OS being free, but people
that go away do not come
back easy...
blabla..
Large profits have been made by Novell last year
in the linux division...
as effect of the M$ deal...
Do you think it was done for other reasons ? works as expected :P
08:13
Cristian Rodríguez schreef:
Carlos E. R. escribió:
Cristian, you should take some distance from your job, and realy learn
how to read...
--
Enjoy your time around,
Oddball (M9.) (Now or never...)
OS: Linux 2.6.27.7-8-default x86_64
Huidige gebruiker: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1
Systeem: openSUSE 11.2 Alpha 0 (x86_64)
KDE: 4.1.3 (KDE 4.1.3) "release 4.6"
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and his mail is not forwarded to another
contact person.
So you want to contact the same address and get a reply from a different
person ? that's not the way __personal__ email address work...
17:15
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Content-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.00.0812101658500.25162(a)nimrodel.valinor>
On Wednesday, 2008-12-10 at 01:56 -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
Sorry, but to us (users) your address is a business address - even if it
can be used for others uses (I try not to with mine's). It was an address
@novell, which this time was used strictly for business.
If a person leaves the company, for whatever reason, that address remains
with the company, and is the responsibility of the company to give some
kind of redirection help to the users or clients still posting to the now
not working business address. It is typical to put an autoresponder with
contact info: it can be the general info contact address, to whom you
write, and they tell you the new person for that task - so as not to hand
out indiscriminately addresses.
But your current behavior of ignoring the issue or downtalking people
when you don't like their criticism is not... I don't have words to
classify that behavior. Disgusting.
The issue so far is:
A person complains that he had a contact person at novell from whom he got
SLES for betatesting, that contact person disappeared, and nobody at
novell wants to tell him who to speak to now.
Nice.
That is what has been said here. If that is not true, then the OP can tell
otherwise, or someone from novell can say "yes, we contacted him in
private, all is solved". No need to specify here your "secrets".
- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
Carlos E. R. escribió:
I don't know. I said "appears".
However, if a person leaves voluntarily, hopefully he has enough time to
inform all his clients who will be the new contact person, don't you
think?
This is not an answer to what he says his contact
person at Novell
appears to have been fired,
Cool, let's continue developing random theories ! how you know he was
"fired" eh ? isnt people able to purse different interests ? and his mail
is not forwarded to another
contact person.
So you want to contact the same address and get a reply from a different
person ? that's not the way __personal__ email address work... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
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=5/Ge
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17:20
On Wed December 10 2008 11:15:21 am Carlos E. R. wrote:
Content-ID:
<alpine.LSU.2.00.0812101658500.25162(a)nimrodel.valinor>
On Wednesday, 2008-12-10 at 01:56 -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
Sorry, but to us (users) your address is a business address - even if it
can be used for others uses (I try not to with mine's). It was an address
@novell, which this time was used strictly for business.
If a person leaves the company, for whatever reason, that address remains
with the company, and is the responsibility of the company to give some
kind of redirection help to the users or clients still posting to the now
not working business address. It is typical to put an autoresponder with
contact info: it can be the general info contact address, to whom you
write, and they tell you the new person for that task - so as not to hand
out indiscriminately addresses.
But your current behavior of ignoring the issue or downtalking people
when you don't like their criticism is not... I don't have words to
classify that behavior. Disgusting.
The issue so far is:
A person complains that he had a contact person at novell from whom he got
SLES for betatesting, that contact person disappeared, and nobody at
novell wants to tell him who to speak to now.
Nice.
That is what has been said here. If that is not true, then the OP can tell
otherwise, or someone from novell can say "yes, we contacted him in
private, all is solved". No need to specify here your "secrets".
+1
Richard
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Carlos E. R. escribió:
I don't know. I said "appears".
However, if a person leaves voluntarily, hopefully he has enough time to
inform all his clients who will be the new contact person, don't you
think?
This is not an answer to what he says his contact
person at Novell
appears to have been fired,
Cool, let's continue developing random theories ! how you know he was
"fired" eh ? isnt people able to purse different interests ? and his
mail is not forwarded to another
contact person.
So you want to contact the same address and get a reply from a different
person ? that's not the way __personal__ email address work... 
17:33
So you want to
contact the same address and get a reply from a different
person ? that's not the way __personal__ email address work...
Sorry, but to us (users) your address is a business address - even if it
can be used for others uses (I try not to with mine's). It was an address
@novell, which this time was used strictly for business.
If a person leaves the company, for whatever reason, that address remains
with the company, and is the responsibility of the company to give some
kind of redirection help to the users or clients still posting to the now
not working business address. It is typical to put an autoresponder with
contact info: it can be the general info contact address, to whom you
write, and they tell you the new person for that task - so as not to hand
out indiscriminately addresses.
But your current behavior of ignoring the issue or downtalking people
when you don't like their criticism is not... I don't have words to
classify that behavior. Disgusting.
The issue so far is:
A person complains that he had a contact person at novell from whom he got
SLES for betatesting, that contact person disappeared, and nobody at
novell wants to tell him who to speak to now.
Nice.
That is what has been said here. If that is not true, then the OP can tell
otherwise, or someone from novell can say "yes, we contacted him in
private, all is solved". No need to specify here your "secrets".
17:46
On Wed December 10 2008 11:33:26 am Marcus Meissner wrote:
Its perhaps also due to the fact that we do not want Andrew as Beta Tester
anymore, since he did not adhere to our Beta Test rules.
If you do not work with us according to these rules (and they are not that
problematic), you will not get help.
Ciao, Marcus
It would be common courtesy to tell the beta tester (Andrew in this case) that you
didn't want anymore help or that you didn't need his services anymore rather
than ignoring his messages or removing the contact mailbox or giving snide, discourteous
comments to that beta tester in a semi-public forum. As he had been given a contact
point, had a copy of the beta for SLED (not generally available), so unless you are also
calling him a thief, it would seem he had been accepted and if now not needed or wanted
any longer, the courtesy of some kind of notification seems in order.
I haven't seen a whole lot of common courtesy here lately.
Richard
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So you want to contact the same address and get a reply
from a different
person ? that's not the way __personal__ email address work...
Sorry, but to us (users) your address is a business address - even if it
can be used for others uses (I try not to with mine's). It was an address
@novell, which this time was used strictly for business.
If a person leaves the company, for whatever reason, that address remains
with the company, and is the responsibility of the company to give some
kind of redirection help to the users or clients still posting to the now
not working business address. It is typical to put an autoresponder with
contact info: it can be the general info contact address, to whom you
write, and they tell you the new person for that task - so as not to hand
out indiscriminately addresses.
But your current behavior of ignoring the issue or downtalking people
when you don't like their criticism is not... I don't have words to
classify that behavior. Disgusting.
The issue so far is:
A person complains that he had a contact person at novell from whom he got
SLES for betatesting, that contact person disappeared, and nobody at
novell wants to tell him who to speak to now.
Nice.
That is what has been said here. If that is not true, then the OP can tell
otherwise, or someone from novell can say "yes, we contacted him in
private, all is solved". No need to specify here your "secrets".
17:53
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:46:56AM -0500, Richard wrote:
On Wed December 10 2008 11:33:26 am Marcus Meissner
wrote:
Its perhaps also due to the fact that we do not want Andrew as Beta Tester
anymore, since he did not adhere to our Beta Test rules.
If you do not work with us according to these rules (and they are not that
problematic), you will not get help.
Ciao, Marcus
It would be common courtesy to tell the beta tester (Andrew in this case) that you
didn't want anymore help or that you didn't need his services anymore rather
than ignoring his messages or removing the contact mailbox or giving snide, discourteous
comments to that beta tester in a semi-public forum. As he had been given a contact
point, had a copy of the beta for SLED (not generally available), so unless you are also
calling him a thief, it would seem he had been accepted and if now not needed or wanted
any longer, the courtesy of some kind of notification seems in order.
I haven't seen a whole lot of common courtesy here lately.
I only got parts of the pictures by asking around, I have not the full picture.
And this forum is for _openSUSE_, as others have said.
Ciao, Marcus
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So you want to contact the same address and get a reply
from a different
person ? that's not the way __personal__ email address work...
Sorry, but to us (users) your address is a business address - even if it
can be used for others uses (I try not to with mine's). It was an address
@novell, which this time was used strictly for business.
If a person leaves the company, for whatever reason, that address remains
with the company, and is the responsibility of the company to give some
kind of redirection help to the users or clients still posting to the now
not working business address. It is typical to put an autoresponder with
contact info: it can be the general info contact address, to whom you
write, and they tell you the new person for that task - so as not to hand
out indiscriminately addresses.
But your current behavior of ignoring the issue or downtalking people
when you don't like their criticism is not... I don't have words to
classify that behavior. Disgusting.
The issue so far is:
A person complains that he had a contact person at novell from whom he got
SLES for betatesting, that contact person disappeared, and nobody at
novell wants to tell him who to speak to now.
Nice.
That is what has been said here. If that is not true, then the OP can tell
otherwise, or someone from novell can say "yes, we contacted him in
private, all is solved". No need to specify here your "secrets".
18:09
"Carlos E. R." <carlos.e.r(a)opensuse.org> writes:
[...]
The issue so far is:
A person complains that he had a contact person at novell from whom he got
SLES for betatesting, that contact person disappeared, and nobody at
novell wants to tell him who to speak to now.
Nice.
That is what has been said here. If that is not true, then the OP can tell
otherwise, or someone from novell can say "yes, we contacted him in
private, all is solved". No need to specify here your "secrets".
Carlos, There's no contact person that I can give out to the OP and
that's what I said and told. We do not have what he requested and his
banging publically about that will not change the fact. The so called
contact person helped out but he was never the guy in charge of what the
OP wants to make him.
I will not comment here any further since what you and the OP request is
something that is not appropriate for this mailing list on the one hand
and on the other hand is something Novell does not deliver for SLED
today,
Andreas
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SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
20:17
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:15, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r(a)opensuse.org> wrote:
The issue so far is:
A person complains that he had a contact person at novell from whom he got
SLES for betatesting, that contact person disappeared, and nobody at
novell wants to tell him who to speak to now.
Pretty much. Although I didn't make much of an effort to contact
someone, since I understand there is no support provided for beta
releases.
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:33, Marcus Meissner <meissner(a)suse.de> wrote:
Its perhaps also due to the fact that we do not want
Andrew as Beta Tester
anymore
Well that's the first I hear about it. Underscores, again, the
communications issue. Maybe you should contact me off-list so we can
settle this.
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21:04
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Wednesday, 2008-12-10 at 18:09 +0100, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
...
Carlos, There's no contact person that I can give
out to the OP and
that's what I said and told. We do not have what he requested and his
banging publically about that will not change the fact. The so called
contact person helped out but he was never the guy in charge of what the
OP wants to make him.
I will not comment here any further since what you and the OP request is
something that is not appropriate for this mailing list on the one hand
and on the other hand is something Novell does not deliver for SLED
today,
I can only say that once the issue is public, you have, or your public
relation person has, to give some kind of reasurances. This doesn't look
nice.
I don't have currently need for SLES, but now and then I see very negative
comments, related to lack of communication, people ask me what do I think,
can I help, and I just have to slide away because I don't have any idea of
what to say.
- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
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21:17
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Wednesday, 2008-12-10 at 17:53 +0100, Marcus Meissner wrote:
True,
But we being betatesters (of factory) means that we probably have a high
interest and or commitment in/with Linux, openSUSE, SUSE, and Novell, and
often have some say on our jobs when it comes the time to buy SLES or not.
We often are the resident Linux expert, you see.
If we see that a SLES betatester is looked upon, that someone has to ask
on a public list who the Novell contact person is... I assure you that
when a client or employer asks me about getting SLES, I will remember
this. This and many other things, of course, both positive and negative.
But a communication problem will weight heavily on a prospective SLES
contract, I'm afraid.
So, please, someone, please clarify the problem in private with the OP,
and then tell us that it is solved and every body is happy.
- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:46:56AM -0500, Richard
wrote:
I haven't
seen a whole lot of common courtesy here lately.
I only got parts of the pictures by asking around, I have not the full picture.
And this forum is for _openSUSE_, as others have said. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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11 Dec
11 Dec
04:00
On Wednesday 10 December 2008 02:04:56 pm Carlos E. R. wrote:
I can only say that once the issue is public, you
have, or your public
relation person has, to give some kind of reasurances. This doesn't look
nice.
Carlos,
I was tester in a similar program and communication was strictly within
provided forums, no word outside. Vendor did not want discussion to be
public, I agreed to that, and who would be to blame if I couldn't keep my
mouth shut. Believe me, they provided all communication channels needed, from
download, bug reporting to contact mail in case of problems, so there was no
need to ask around.
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11:37
"Carlos E. R." <carlos.e.r(a)opensuse.org> writes:
So, please, someone, please clarify the problem in
private with the OP,
and then tell us that it is solved and every body is happy.
I'm under the impresseion that it's solved already - just not to
Andrew's satisfaction - but I will followup with Andrew again,
Regards,
Andreas Jaeger
Director Platform / openSUSE, Novell
--
Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj(a)suse.de
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
11:40
"Andrew Joakimsen" <joakimsen(a)gmail.com> writes:
[...]
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:33, Marcus Meissner <meissner(a)suse.de> wrote:
Marcus, I have to correct you: the beta programs only have a limited
amount of slots and we choose not to include some persons but include
others. Andrew was not kicked out of any Beta program - he just was not
more suited than the others that filled the limited slots,
Regards,
Andreas Jaeger
Director platform / openSUSE, Novell
--
Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj(a)suse.de
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
Its perhaps also due to the fact that we do not
want Andrew as Beta Tester
anymore
Well that's the first I hear about it. Underscores, again, the
communications issue. Maybe you should contact me off-list so we can
settle this.
13:22
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Wednesday, 2008-12-10 at 21:00 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:
On Wednesday 10 December 2008 02:04:56 pm Carlos E. R.
wrote:
I don't object to that. Their rules :-)
What I meant is, that there has been some problem with communication,
there has been complaints in public, and so, to mend things, there must be
some kind of public reasurance.
Novell has failed here somewhat. If they want to keep things in private,
they must have some clear to reach private communication channel that
doesn't fail (humanly and technically).
- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
I can only say that once the issue is public, you
have, or your public
relation person has, to give some kind of reasurances. This doesn't look
nice.
Carlos,
I was tester in a similar program and communication was strictly within
provided forums, no word outside. Vendor did not want discussion to be
public, I agreed to that, and who would be to blame if I couldn't keep my
mouth shut. Believe me, they provided all communication channels needed, from
download, bug reporting to contact mail in case of problems, so there was no
need to ask around. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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13:23
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Thursday, 2008-12-11 at 11:37 +0100, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <> writes:
Thanks! That's all I wanted :-)
- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
So, please, someone, please clarify the problem
in private with the OP,
and then tell us that it is solved and every body is happy.
I'm under the impresseion that it's solved already - just not to
Andrew's satisfaction - but I will followup with Andrew again, -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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12 Dec
12 Dec
01:58
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 07:23, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas(a)telefonica.net> wrote:
On Thursday, 2008-12-11 at 11:37 +0100, Andreas Jaeger
wrote:
Andreas Jaeger did follow up with my in private. I suppose this matter
is resolved -- but as AJ stated, not to my satisfaction.
But this still does not resolve the underlying problem. I do have
access to the beta program but not to the discussion list
os-sle11(a)suse.de. Yes, there many beta programs, yes there is no
support for the betas, yada, yada, yada. But how do you expect to
distribute a beta and provide no communication at all?
**What is the issue with granting the persons that currently have
access to an active beta program access to a mailing list established
with the sole discuss said beta? Especially when you do not want the
beta discussed in public? Any time I raise a question the answer is
"there are many beta programs, get in touch with your contact" -- but
that person, for whatever reason, no longer has a valid Novell email
address. I was jumping to conclusions that Chuck was "fired"... but
the point is everyone else points me to somewhere else on the
merry-go-round.
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"Carlos E. R." <> writes:
Thanks! That's all I wanted :-) So, please, someone, please clarify the problem
in private with the OP,
and then tell us that it is solved and every body is happy.
I'm under the impresseion that it's solved already - just not to
Andrew's satisfaction - but I will followup with Andrew again,
08:17
"Andrew Joakimsen" <joakimsen(a)gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 07:23, Carlos E. R.
<robin.listas(a)telefonica.net> wrote:
Somebody by accident made SLED open for every registered partner but it
should have been only open for partners that were accepted into the beta
program. You therefore got access to it without beeing part of a beta
program. The access has now been changed AFAIK (note: I'm not
responsible for SLED). When you got access to it, there should not have
been any mention of a beta program or feedback channel.
I know it makes no sense but the decision was here not to invite those
that came in by accident into other programs but leave them as they
signed up - without any support.
On Thursday, 2008-12-11 at 11:37 +0100, Andreas
Jaeger wrote:
Andreas Jaeger did follow up with my in private. I suppose this matter
is resolved -- but as AJ stated, not to my satisfaction.
But this still does not resolve the underlying problem. I do have
access to the beta program but not to the discussion list
os-sle11(a)suse.de. Yes, there many beta programs, yes there is no
support for the betas, yada, yada, yada. But how do you expect to
distribute a beta and provide no communication at all? "Carlos E. R." <> writes:
Thanks! That's all I wanted :-) So, please, someone, please clarify the problem
in private with the OP,
and then tell us that it is solved and every body is happy.
I'm under the impresseion that it's solved already - just not to
Andrew's satisfaction - but I will followup with Andrew again, **What is the issue with granting the persons that
currently have
access to an active beta program access to a mailing list established
with the sole discuss said beta? Especially when you do not want the
beta discussed in public? Any time I raise a question the answer is
"there are many beta programs, get in touch with your contact" -- but
that person, for whatever reason, no longer has a valid Novell email
address. I was jumping to conclusions that Chuck was "fired"... but
the point is everyone else points me to somewhere else on the
merry-go-round.
It took me some time to figure out what beta program you were associated
with, I wasn't aware that we had an "open" beta without any contacts etc
for SLED at one point. Chuck just tried to be helpfull...
Andrew, I would be really surprised if you signed up for a Beta Program
with feedback channel associated with it - as compared to just given
early access to Betas. I'm sorry to see that you got the impression you
signed up for something else than you did...
The early access to Betas is for Business Partners that want to early
evaluate their products and adopt them for the new release. Depending
on the Business Partner level, you have dedicated Novell contacts that
will help you in case of problems. I'm in engineering, not part of the
partner program so the above is very simplified ;)
Andreas
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4503
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4520
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30 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Andreas Jaeger -
Andrew Joakimsen -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Kevin Dupuy -
Marcus Meissner -
Oddball -
Rajko M. -
Richard -
Stephan Kulow