[opensuse-factory] Minutes from 2007-03-23 dist meeting
Here are the minutes from yesterday's dist meeting. If you have any questions, comments, ideas, please speak up! Thanks, Andreas * Enabling more network services to be NetworkManager aware, e.g. ntp and autofs This is in general desired but might need quite large rework for some services like autofs that do not handle IP changes properly. Proposal: Services should be aware that network goes up/down and handle no network (instead of timing out). Let's look what can be done for ntp - and later look at other services. Note the ntp service is also usefull for machines without network (serial DCF77 clock). Right now the dispatcher script sends a signal to ntp if the IP address changes but during boot ntp starts even if network is not running. Suggestion: ntp start script should figure out if NetworkManager is running and if it is only start if network is up - otherwise the dispatcher script will start it. AI: Work together on ntp. Dial-in support for NetworkManager to support ISDN, Modem, UMTS, 3G cards is beeing worked on and should be ready for openSUSE 10.3. * Checkin policy for specific projects and how to track them Current example is postgresql. This was a question for security update of old distributions. The maintenance team grants exceptions on a case by case basis, e.g. if the new version just fixes the security problem. * AppArmor: Move the profiles from our package to their packages This would allow easier tracking of changes in packages. On the other hand a central place might give some extra review. Consensus: If the format is stable enough, we should distribute the profiles. Once we do it, we should train the packagers and institure some review process for the profiles to maintain a high quality. Beside manual page apparmor.d(5) a short documentation for packagers in plain english of the format is missed. AI: talk to Apparmor folks. * Faster booting? What can be done here? Booting consists of kernel startup, initrd and System V scripts. The bootchart scripts do measure the System V scripts but not the initial ramdisk. Idea: Snapshotting at gdm/kdm time: Write a snapshot and resume at the next boot back to this version. This is different from suspend to disk. Filesystem fragmentation under Linux is in general not a problem - but it is a problem in booting. Therefore measurements have to be done on freshly installed systems. AI: Generate some bootcharts to show current bottlenecks. * Shrink the basepackages (packages always installed for building) With todays changes we seem to be able to do a self-contained build of base with just 72 source packages (spec files). By heavily stripping the set of basepacks of course. And we have side-by-side compiles against the openSUSE config to compare logfiles (no differences sofar). This means that e.g. vim and strace will be removed from the build environment. The autobuild team will add options to build to easily add debug tools to the tree. AI: Show list of packages to autobuild to adjust configs, announce changes to opensuse-packaging - and run comparisions of the complete system to check that all requirements are met. * Email notifications for checkins for not novell addresses Package.changes file coming from the build service might contain non-Novell email addresses. We decided to not send any autobuild emails to those adddresses. AI: implement whitelist of domains (currently @novell.com, @suse.de, @suse.cz) Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Andreas Jaeger schreef:
Here are the minutes from yesterday's dist meeting. If you have any questions, comments, ideas, please speak up!
Thanks, Andreas
* Enabling more network services to be NetworkManager aware, e.g. ntp and autofs
This is in general desired but might need quite large rework for some services like autofs that do not handle IP changes properly.
Proposal: Services should be aware that network goes up/down and handle no network (instead of timing out).
Let's look what can be done for ntp - and later look at other services. Note the ntp service is also usefull for machines without network (serial DCF77 clock). Right now the dispatcher script sends a signal to ntp if the IP address changes but during boot ntp starts even if network is not running.
Suggestion: ntp start script should figure out if NetworkManager is running and if it is only start if network is up - otherwise the dispatcher script will start it.
This is also a good idea, to make sure things happen as they should...
AI: Work together on ntp.
Dial-in support for NetworkManager to support ISDN, Modem, UMTS, 3G cards is beeing worked on and should be ready for openSUSE 10.3.
* Checkin policy for specific projects and how to track them
Current example is postgresql. This was a question for security update of old distributions. The maintenance team grants exceptions on a case by case basis, e.g. if the new version just fixes the security problem.
* AppArmor: Move the profiles from our package to their packages
This would allow easier tracking of changes in packages. On the other hand a central place might give some extra review.
Consensus: If the format is stable enough, we should distribute the profiles. Once we do it, we should train the packagers and institure some review process for the profiles to maintain a high quality.
Beside manual page apparmor.d(5) a short documentation for packagers in plain english of the format is missed.
AI: talk to Apparmor folks.
* Faster booting? What can be done here?
Booting consists of kernel startup, initrd and System V scripts. The bootchart scripts do measure the System V scripts but not the initial ramdisk.
Idea: Snapshotting at gdm/kdm time: Write a snapshot and resume at the next boot back to this version. This is different from suspend to disk.
This looks like a smart idea, suspend to disk sometimes fails, but if it works, it takes a little less time than a complete boot...(and one is were one left off..)
Filesystem fragmentation under Linux is in general not a problem - but it is a problem in booting. Therefore measurements have to be done on freshly installed systems.
AI: Generate some bootcharts to show current bottlenecks.
* Shrink the basepackages (packages always installed for building)
With todays changes we seem to be able to do a self-contained build of base with just 72 source packages (spec files). By heavily stripping the set of basepacks of course. And we have side-by-side compiles against the openSUSE config to compare logfiles (no differences sofar).
This means that e.g. vim and strace will be removed from the build environment. The autobuild team will add options to build to easily add debug tools to the tree.
AI: Show list of packages to autobuild to adjust configs, announce changes to opensuse-packaging - and run comparisions of the complete system to check that all requirements are met.
* Email notifications for checkins for not novell addresses
Package.changes file coming from the build service might contain non-Novell email addresses. We decided to not send any autobuild emails to those adddresses.
AI: implement whitelist of domains (currently @novell.com, @suse.de, @suse.cz)
Andreas
- -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. OS: Linux 2.6.18.2-34-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@tribal-sfn2 Systeem: openSUSE 10.2 (X86-64) KDE: 3.5.5 "release 45.2" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGA853X5/X5X6LpDgRAkSlAKCYzeoTZCANKbbHms+9R/v0W/KpQACfeu4T /jAH1II0jLbE2gHQxpsGvK8= =z2cG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Let's look what can be done for ntp - and later look at other services. Note the ntp service is also usefull for machines without network (serial DCF77 clock). Right now the dispatcher script sends a signal to ntp if the IP address changes but during boot ntp starts even if network is not running.
Suggestion: ntp start script should figure out if NetworkManager is running and if it is only start if network is up - otherwise the dispatcher script will start it.
At home my ntpd starts up with no servers defined and the ip-up script adds time servers via ntpdc IIRC. Requires that the local clock is sufficiently exact though. I'm not sure if there is a way to remove time servers from a running ntpd again though.
Dial-in support for NetworkManager to support ISDN, Modem, UMTS, 3G cards is beeing worked on and should be ready for openSUSE 10.3.
Whatever that means. Does it use existing config files as created by yast? cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ SUSE Labs V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2007-03-23 at 14:44 +0100, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Let's look what can be done for ntp - and later look at other services. Note the ntp service is also usefull for machines without network (serial DCF77 clock). Right now the dispatcher script sends a signal to ntp if the IP address changes but during boot ntp starts even if network is not running.
Suggestion: ntp start script should figure out if NetworkManager is running and if it is only start if network is up - otherwise the dispatcher script will start it.
At home my ntpd starts up with no servers defined and the ip-up script adds time servers via ntpdc IIRC. Requires that the local clock is sufficiently exact though. I'm not sure if there is a way to remove time servers from a running ntpd again though.
Dial-in support for NetworkManager to support ISDN, Modem, UMTS, 3G cards is beeing worked on and should be ready for openSUSE 10.3.
Whatever that means. Does it use existing config files as created by yast?
Potentially, just as we can use yast info for wireless and wired configs
now, however the upstream implementation will not do this by default of
course, it will have its own PPP config UI. How much knowledge we can
extract from yast to implement the upstream config is an open question.
Longer term however, I think the approach is almost definitely to use NM
everywhere (of course it needs a lot of work to get there for things
like static routes, multiple interfaces at the same time etc, but when
discussed with the Mobile and Server teams several months ago there was
general agreement on this direction).
-JP
--
JP Rosevear
JP Rosevear wrote:
On Fri, 2007-03-23 at 14:44 +0100, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Dial-in support for NetworkManager to support ISDN, Modem, UMTS, 3G cards is beeing worked on and should be ready for openSUSE 10.3.
Whatever that means. Does it use existing config files as created by yast?
Potentially, just as we can use yast info for wireless and wired configs now, however the upstream implementation will not do this by default of course, it will have its own PPP config UI. How much knowledge we can extract from yast to implement the upstream config is an open question.
Which distro serves as model for the upstream config? cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ SUSE Labs V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Ludwig Nussel
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Let's look what can be done for ntp - and later look at other services. Note the ntp service is also usefull for machines without network (serial DCF77 clock). Right now the dispatcher script sends a signal to ntp if the IP address changes but during boot ntp starts even if network is not running.
Suggestion: ntp start script should figure out if NetworkManager is running and if it is only start if network is up - otherwise the dispatcher script will start it.
At home my ntpd starts up with no servers defined and the ip-up script adds time servers via ntpdc IIRC. Requires that the local clock is sufficiently exact though. I'm not sure if there is a way to remove time servers from a running ntpd again though.
Yeah, there are some challenges to get all usecases right.
Dial-in support for NetworkManager to support ISDN, Modem, UMTS, 3G cards is beeing worked on and should be ready for openSUSE 10.3.
Whatever that means. Does it use existing config files as created by yast?
Better ask the experts, we didn't go into details, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Idea: Snapshotting at gdm/kdm time: Write a snapshot and resume at the next boot back to this version. This is different from suspend to disk.
the différence needs to be explained (in "function" way, not in "implementation" way) : what are the différences for the user? In fact, I usually don't use suspend because when I need a start, it's rarely to continue the very same work I did at shutdown. (usually I beging lurking at my mail and need this fast, the remaining can wait or be done in the background) Notice than the competitor (at least XP) displays its desktop very soon, but there is still some time before anywork can be done. on the contrary, when Kde is started it's immediately available. this is very typical of the OS way of life: Linux want to be effective, Win to be good looking. However, in this precise case, may be we could take a snapshot (just an image of the desktop - is that the snpshot you speak about there up?) of the screen that will be restored?? (not sure I should like it :-)
* Shrink the basepackages (packages always installed for building)
With todays changes we seem to be able to do a self-contained
should be a good idea to have a pattern "old fashioned base system" for people used to what is now openSUE :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Lucien Dodin, inventeur http://lucien.dodin.net/index.shtml --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2007-03-23 at 17:21 +0100, jdd wrote:
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Idea: Snapshotting at gdm/kdm time: Write a snapshot and resume at the next boot back to this version. This is different from suspend to disk.
However, in this precise case, may be we could take a snapshot (just an image of the desktop - is that the snpshot you speak about there up?) of the screen that will be restored?? (not sure I should like it :-)
jdd
Now am not sure if i want to laugh or cry after such a comment ... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Andreas Jaeger -
jdd -
Jonathan Arsenault -
JP Rosevear -
Ludwig Nussel -
M9.