Hi all,
When will Tumbleweed be revived again? It is a pity that it fails to continue quickly after an openSUSE upgrade, especially since it was ahead of openSUSE 12.2 already for some packages (kernel, KDE, ...).
Best regards, Erwin
* Erwin Van de Velde erwin.vandevelde@gmail.com [10-02-12 04:25]:
When will Tumbleweed be revived again? It is a pity that it fails to continue quickly after an openSUSE upgrade, especially since it was ahead of openSUSE 12.2 already for some packages (kernel, KDE, ...).
Greg KH remarked here that there would be a couple of weeks for 12.2 to "settle down" before resuming. You can search the archives for his *exact* comments.
On Tuesday 02 October 2012 06:44:19 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Greg KH remarked here that there would be a couple of weeks for 12.2 to "settle down" before resuming. You can search the archives for his *exact* comments.
I have read it, but we are a few weeks later now, without any new information. Anyway, it is possible to provide e.g. KDE 4.9 packages for 12.2 (see KR49 repo), so why can we not start from there? Now I have to enable this repo for a month or two before switching back to Tumbleweed, which is annoying...
* Erwin Van de Velde erwin.vandevelde@gmail.com [10-02-12 07:15]:
On Tuesday 02 October 2012 06:44:19 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Greg KH remarked here that there would be a couple of weeks for 12.2 to "settle down" before resuming. You can search the archives for his *exact* comments.
I have read it, but we are a few weeks later now, without any new information. Anyway, it is possible to provide e.g. KDE 4.9 packages for 12.2 (see KR49 repo), so why can we not start from there? Now I have to enable this repo for a month or two before switching back to Tumbleweed, which is annoying...
I am sure that Greg KH would *appreciate* any help you can provide. His day job may somewhat interfere with generating Tumbleweed updates.
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On 10/02/2012 10:24 AM, Erwin Van de Velde wrote:
When will Tumbleweed be revived again? It is a pity that it fails to continue quickly after an openSUSE upgrade, especially since it was ahead of openSUSE 12.2 already for some packages (kernel, KDE, ...).
I personally have some packages in home:jirislaby:tumbleweed. You may use that repo, if you want. However, there is no guarantee and it has some limitations. Like it is x86_64-only, contains only few kernel flavors and currently has a bug in libqt: https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-27322 i.e. the new KDE does not even start on x86_64 with less than 2G of memory. And I will delete most of the stuff as soon as official Tumbleweed have all that.
- -- js suse labs
* Jiri Slaby jslaby@suse.cz [10-02-12 06:58]: ...
I personally have some packages in home:jirislaby:tumbleweed. You may use that repo, if you want. However, there is no guarantee and it has some limitations. Like it is x86_64-only, contains only few kernel flavors and currently has a bug in libqt: https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-27322 i.e. the new KDE does not even start on x86_64 with less than 2G of memory. And I will delete most of the stuff as soon as official Tumbleweed have all that.
There are *many* conflicts with akonadi and kdelibs4 for current semi-stock tumbleweed.
On 10/02/2012 01:25 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
- Jiri Slaby jslaby@suse.cz [10-02-12 06:58]:
...
I personally have some packages in home:jirislaby:tumbleweed. You may use that repo, if you want. However, there is no guarantee and it has some limitations. Like it is x86_64-only, contains only few kernel flavors and currently has a bug in libqt: https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-27322 i.e. the new KDE does not even start on x86_64 with less than 2G of memory. And I will delete most of the stuff as soon as official Tumbleweed have all that.
There are *many* conflicts with akonadi and kdelibs4 for current semi-stock tumbleweed.
What conflicts exactly?
* Jiri Slaby jslaby@suse.cz [10-02-12 13:33]:
On 10/02/2012 01:25 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
- Jiri Slaby jslaby@suse.cz [10-02-12 06:58]:
...
I personally have some packages in home:jirislaby:tumbleweed. You may use that repo, if you want. However, there is no guarantee and it has some limitations. Like it is x86_64-only, contains only few kernel flavors and currently has a bug in libqt: https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-27322 i.e. the new KDE does not even start on x86_64 with less than 2G of memory. And I will delete most of the stuff as soon as official Tumbleweed have all that.
There are *many* conflicts with akonadi and kdelibs4 for current semi-stock tumbleweed.
What conflicts exactly?
Odd... I re-added your repo and refreshed and did zypper dup and have: 31 packages to upgrade, 4 new, 1 to remove, 31 to change vendor.
so I cannot tell you now and I did no updates between seeing the conflicts and now. But I did have *many* conflicts listing. I see I still have the screen lines from the first attempt:
New repository or package signing key received: Key ID: 8616C29DCFB63DF6 Key Name: home:jirislaby OBS Project home:jirislaby@build.opensuse.org Key Fingerprint: 78B72AEFFFDAD2A8E212E0F08616C29DCFB63DF6 Key Created: Tue Apr 24 06:53:16 2012 Key Expires: Thu Jul 3 06:53:16 2014 Repository: home:jirislaby:tumbleweed (openSUSE_Tumbleweed)
Problem: calligra-doc-2.4.3-2.4.1.noarch requires calligra = 2.4.3, but this requirement cannot be provided Problem: akonadi-google-lang-0.3.1-2.4.1.noarch requires akonadi-google = 0.3.1, but this requirement cannot be provided
and in dealing with these *two* "Problems", the questions went on and on and on until I cancelled.
OK, the first attemtp I did: zypper dup --from home_jirislaby_tumbleweed and the second: zypper dup
Looks like 4.9.1 artwork but still 4.8.5 kdelibs4
tks, upgrading now.
On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 10:24:45AM +0200, Erwin Van de Velde wrote:
Hi all,
When will Tumbleweed be revived again? It is a pity that it fails to continue quickly after an openSUSE upgrade, especially since it was ahead of openSUSE 12.2 already for some packages (kernel, KDE, ...).
A "pity"? That's a good one, you now owe me a beer for complaining :)
I'm testing kernel packages out right now for Tumbleweed, but the build system is a bit slow right now. After that gets out and pushed publically, I'll look at KDE.
Other than the kernel and KDE, are there any _specific_ packages you are wanting to see in Tumbleweed?
greg k-h
On 10/02/12 14:08, Greg KH pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 10:24:45AM +0200, Erwin Van de Velde wrote:
Hi all,
When will Tumbleweed be revived again? It is a pity that it fails to continue quickly after an openSUSE upgrade, especially since it was ahead of openSUSE 12.2 already for some packages (kernel, KDE, ...).
A "pity"? That's a good one, you now owe me a beer for complaining :)
I'm testing kernel packages out right now for Tumbleweed, but the build system is a bit slow right now. After that gets out and pushed publically, I'll look at KDE.
Other than the kernel and KDE, are there any _specific_ packages you are wanting to see in Tumbleweed?
greg k-h
The only pity here is that some people have no patience.
Keep up the great work Greg.
On Tuesday 02 October 2012 15:33:11 Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
The only pity here is that some people have no patience.
Patience is not the issue here, a service only really exists if one can rely on it. I really like the idea behind Tumbleweed and understand that sometimes it can be tough, but that is only reason to find beter ways to do it. You cannot blame users for asking where a certain service went, only ask them and others for more help in getting it back on track.
Best regards, Erwin
On Wed, 2012-10-03 at 09:55 +0200, Erwin Van de Velde wrote:
On Tuesday 02 October 2012 15:33:11 Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
The only pity here is that some people have no patience.
Patience is not the issue here, a service only really exists if one can rely on it. I really like the idea behind Tumbleweed and understand that sometimes it can be tough, but that is only reason to find beter ways to do it. You cannot blame users for asking where a certain service went, only ask them and others for more help in getting it back on track.
Best regards, Erwin
Asking "hey what's the current status?" is one thing. Criticizing by calling it a pity is another. One thing I appreciate a lot on these Tumbleweed discussions is seeing how many people are extremely respectful and recognize that Greg carries a lot of the weight of Tumbleweed on his shoulders. They're patient in recognizing that he juggles quite a bit here on a purely voluntary basis since this isn't his day job.
There is a right and wrong approach to how you query things. Saying it's a pity and this/this/this should have been done, implies that you are planning to volunteer to help offload the work. I'm sure Greg will appreciate your assistance.
Bryen
On Wednesday 03 October 2012 03:02:55 Bryen M Yunashko wrote:
Asking "hey what's the current status?" is one thing. Criticizing by calling it a pity is another. One thing I appreciate a lot on these Tumbleweed discussions is seeing how many people are extremely respectful and recognize that Greg carries a lot of the weight of Tumbleweed on his shoulders. They're patient in recognizing that he juggles quite a bit here on a purely voluntary basis since this isn't his day job.
I appreciate the work he is doing and perhaps more people should join the tumbleweed indeed, but calling it a pity is not criticizing. If you want your work to be used, you have to understand that users have this kind of questions, especially when they face regressions.
There is a right and wrong approach to how you query things. Saying it's a pity and this/this/this should have been done, implies that you are planning to volunteer to help offload the work. I'm sure Greg will appreciate your assistance.
I am an active bug reporter, with (I hope) clear and helpful reports. Besides that I work together with several developers to make software better. One cannot require a user to work on everything he has questions about.
Best regards, Erwin
On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 11:08:55AM -0700, Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 10:24:45AM +0200, Erwin Van de Velde wrote:
Hi all,
When will Tumbleweed be revived again? It is a pity that it fails to continue quickly after an openSUSE upgrade, especially since it was ahead of openSUSE 12.2 already for some packages (kernel, KDE, ...).
A "pity"? That's a good one, you now owe me a beer for complaining :)
I'm testing kernel packages out right now for Tumbleweed, but the build system is a bit slow right now. After that gets out and pushed publically, I'll look at KDE.
Oh, and if anyone ever wants to know what is coming "next" in Tumbleweed, look at Tumbleweed:Testing: https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=openSUSE%3ATumbleweed%3AT... to see what is happening.
If your are very daring, feel free to also enable that repo on your own system, I do on mine :)
greg k-h
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On 10/02/2012 08:08 PM, Greg KH wrote:
Other than the kernel and KDE, are there any _specific_ packages you are wanting to see in Tumbleweed?
You need also Base:System/mkinitrd which is `Required' by the new kernel. And it seems kernel-firmware won't build with the new mkinitrd unless systemd is installed in the build system (default in factory, not in 12.2).
And hold on with KDE 4.9. There is an upstream bug in libqt4, so that KDE crashes on some (many) boxes, including mine. I'm currently trying to sort out. I'm building kde 4.9 with older libqt4 to see if that helps (it should). However as you noted, build service needs some more time...
thanks, - -- js suse labs
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On 10/03/2012 09:06 AM, Jiri Slaby wrote:
You need also Base:System/mkinitrd
Oh, not true anymore. 12.2 contains new enough mkinitrd.
- -- js suse labs
On Tuesday 02 October 2012 11:08:55 Greg KH wrote:
A "pity"? That's a good one, you now owe me a beer for complaining :)
I'm testing kernel packages out right now for Tumbleweed, but the build system is a bit slow right now. After that gets out and pushed publically, I'll look at KDE.
Other than the kernel and KDE, are there any _specific_ packages you are wanting to see in Tumbleweed?
Kernel + KDE are the most important ones I think, the others are not really a priority for me, although perhaps they are for other users.
Why can you not just copy the build files from KR49 for now? Since 12.2 and Tumbleweed are 99.9% the same right now, I fail to see the problem there.
I agree of course that more Tumbleweed maintainers may be necessary, but then that is the issue one should try to tackle not mocking users who want to use your repositories.
Best regards, Erwin
On Wed, Oct 03, 2012 at 09:49:56AM +0200, Erwin Van de Velde wrote:
Why can you not just copy the build files from KR49 for now? Since 12.2 and Tumbleweed are 99.9% the same right now, I fail to see the problem there.
The latest KDE release just finished building in the KR49 release a mere _hours_ ago, and you feel that is tested and "stable" enough to release it to everyone else as well in Tumbleweed? I do not, give it at least a full day please :)
And yes, of course we will use the same build files, that's how Tumbleweed works, we link in the exact same packages, not duplicating or changing anything. OBS makes this very easy to do, which is why Tumbleweed is possible in the first place.
Please be patient, Tumbleweed is about packages that are "stable", on top of a "stable" base, like 12.2. I wanted for 12.2 to be nice and solid before adding new stuff on top of it as it takes away the variables that cause people problems. And if you've seen the reports of upgrade issues on the Tumbleweed forum, you would understand why I have done this.
I agree of course that more Tumbleweed maintainers may be necessary, but then that is the issue one should try to tackle not mocking users who want to use your repositories.
I merely asked for a free beer from you, as you were asking me to do work for you, how is that not fair? :)
greg k-h
On 10/03/12 10:02, Greg KH pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
On Wed, Oct 03, 2012 at 09:49:56AM +0200, Erwin Van de Velde wrote:
Why can you not just copy the build files from KR49 for now? Since 12.2 and Tumbleweed are 99.9% the same right now, I fail to see the problem there.
The latest KDE release just finished building in the KR49 release a mere _hours_ ago, and you feel that is tested and "stable" enough to release it to everyone else as well in Tumbleweed? I do not, give it at least a full day please :)
And yes, of course we will use the same build files, that's how Tumbleweed works, we link in the exact same packages, not duplicating or changing anything. OBS makes this very easy to do, which is why Tumbleweed is possible in the first place.
Please be patient, Tumbleweed is about packages that are "stable", on top of a "stable" base, like 12.2. I wanted for 12.2 to be nice and solid before adding new stuff on top of it as it takes away the variables that cause people problems. And if you've seen the reports of upgrade issues on the Tumbleweed forum, you would understand why I have done this.
I agree of course that more Tumbleweed maintainers may be necessary, but then that is the issue one should try to tackle not mocking users who want to use your repositories.
I merely asked for a free beer from you, as you were asking me to do work for you, how is that not fair? :)
greg k-h
If you ever make it to SW Florida I'll not only provide the free beer but also free lodging.
I agree of course that more Tumbleweed maintainers may be necessary, but then that is the issue one should try to tackle not mocking users who want to use your repositories.
I merely asked for a free beer from you, as you were asking me to do work for you, how is that not fair? :)
To be fair, Greg should be asking for a home brew!
(I've got a couple cases of home brew waiting to be bottled right now, so it's on my mind. And my local LUG was ale.org. They consider anything linux or home brew to be on-topic!)
Greg (not KH)
On Wednesday 03 October 2012 07:02:21 Greg KH wrote:
On Wed, Oct 03, 2012 at 09:49:56AM +0200, Erwin Van de Velde wrote:
Why can you not just copy the build files from KR49 for now? Since 12.2 and Tumbleweed are 99.9% the same right now, I fail to see the problem there.
The latest KDE release just finished building in the KR49 release a mere _hours_ ago, and you feel that is tested and "stable" enough to release it to everyone else as well in Tumbleweed? I do not, give it at least a full day please :)
This is an unfair observation since the KDE 4.9.2 announcement mail was only released yesterday in the afternoon. Before that, KDE 4.9.1 had been in the KR49 repo for nearly a month.
I merely asked for a free beer from you, as you were asking me to do work for you, how is that not fair? :)
I did not force you to make Tumbleweed... but since you release it, I assume you want to have users, so you have to understand that users have this kind of questions. If it is as easy as linking the packages from KR49, it could/should have been done earlier in my opinion, I did not have any issues with these packages.
And yes, I know about stability issues in new software, I have been using ArchLinux for quite a while before switching to openSUSE. I chose openSUSE because of tumbleweed in fact.
Best regards, Erwin
-
Bryen M Yunashko -
Erwin Van de Velde -
Greg Freemyer -
Greg KH -
Jiri Slaby -
Ken Schneider - openSUSE -
Patrick Shanahan