Il 23/06/2014 10:43, Stephan Kulow ha scritto:

Hi,

We[¹]'re working on a news article on Factory becoming a true rolling distribution[²] instead of being the development branch.

As you will be very well aware, it's been a while since 13.1 (acording to the original 8 month cycle we would release in 3 weeks - and I'm actually quite happy we're not putting a release out a day after the Final ;-)

But I still would like to listen reasons why people should not be sad 13.2 is not released, but rather take a second look at switching to Factory.

And for this I need your help: why did you switch to Factory or why do you consider it? What are the selling points of Factory? What killer features are in Factory that we don't have in 13.1?

Greetings, Stephan

[1] The etherpad has 8 authors and it's just a draft :) [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Release#True-rolling_distributions

Sorry if I will go out-of-topic in some or eventually all my comments. 1) A rolling distro has in my opinion the advantage to be the more updated in terms of kernel and packages but I will use it just on testing environments as VM, for example. 2) A stable release is in my opinion preferable for main environments as servers or even desktop where we look for stability and affordability. 3) Again in my opinion I would like to have an "LTS" Opensuse option as we find in Ubuntu. I'm not talking about Ever-Green project but a real Long Term Support release "cleaned" of all the bug collected by the base release (and never resolved) for people like me which are more interested to have a rock stable environment 100% bug-free than having the latest kernel available to test latest CPU or the ultimate Video card. Regards, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 9:43 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:

And for this I need your help: 1. why did you switch to Factory or why do you consider it? 2. What are the selling points of Factory? 3. What killer features are in Factory that we don't have in 13.1?

1. Always stick to the latest versions but never bricks your computer. 2. A well-taken-cared Arch linux with openSUSE look and feel/tweaks/quality/community power/SUSE cluster sponsored. Actually I didn't see any rolling distribution ever did so much machine testing. A true rolling distro + openQA. 3. Of course everything we will had in 13.2. it is hunger marketing. Marguerite -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014, Stephan Kulow wrote:

Hi,

We[¹]'re working on a news article on Factory becoming a true rolling distribution[²] instead of being the development branch.

As you will be very well aware, it's been a while since 13.1 (acording to the original 8 month cycle we would release in 3 weeks - and I'm actually quite happy we're not putting a release out a day after the Final ;-)

But I still would like to listen reasons why people should not be sad 13.2 is not released, but rather take a second look at switching to Factory.

And for this I need your help: why did you switch to Factory or why do you consider it? What are the selling points of Factory? What killer features are in Factory that we don't have in 13.1?

Is a zypper dup from the last release to Factory always supposed to work? That is, do we have some automated testing of that (install 13.1 with settings 1,...N, install updates, dup to factory and verify the image still boots)? Richard.

Greetings, Stephan

[1] The etherpad has 8 authors and it's just a draft :) [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Release#True-rolling_distributions

-- Richard Biener SUSE / SUSE Labs SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nuernberg - AG Nuernberg - HRB 16746 GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend"orffer

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 15:43:29 +0200 Stephan Kulow wrote:

And for this I need your help: why did you switch to Factory or why do you consider it? What are the selling points of Factory? What killer features are in Factory that we don't have in 13.1?

At present, I am only using it for testing. I'm considering using it for my everyday use, but I'm not quite ready for that yet. Gnome does not work with Intel (Haswell) graphics. It was fine before the updates of the last few days. (I have not filed a bug report as yet). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hello, Am Montag, 23. Juni 2014 schrieb Stephan Kulow:

And for this I need your help: why did you switch to Factory or why do you consider it? What are the selling points of Factory? What killer features are in Factory that we don't have in 13.1?

Good questions ;-) My reasons to switch to Factory were (in random order): - I do beta tests since years (starting with 9.2), but why should I wait for the beta release? - Factory replaces the old, boring bugs with exciting new ones ;-) (luckily the number of critical [1] new bugs is very low) - even better: Bug fixes arrive in Factory much faster than in a released version (including fixes for minor bugs, which aren't worth a maintenance release) - I always get the newest software BTW: /var/log/zypp/history tells me: 2011-01-06 18:26:27|radd |factory-oss| http://download.opensuse.org/factory/repo/oss/ I knew I'm using Factory since "quite some time", but > 3 years? Really? Even without the staging we have now, critical bugs were very rare. In those rare cases, a fix or at least a workaround where available quickly. In other words: running factory is usually painless. Nevertheless I wouldn't recommend Factory to newbies - in the rare cases of critical bugs, it's good to know what you are doing ;-) The only rule I honor is "never change a running system" when I know I'll need my system for something important in the next days. In most cases "zypper dup" won't break anything - but if you have to give a presentation the next day, you shouldn't call for Murphy too much and avoid upgrading to the latest bugs^WFactory ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz [1] "critical" on my personal scale - if something I use daily is completely broken, then it's obviously critical for me ;-) --

[Nessus-Scan - Windows XP] macht nach genau 5 Sekunden die Grätsche und fährt runter....)) Da hat man gar keine Chance Informationen zu bekommen. Na, dass ist doch Sicherheit in Perfektion. Ein abgeschalteter Rechner ist am sichersten gegen Datenklau geschützt. Bravo, M$! [> Dieter Franzke und Matthias Houdek in suse-linux]

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi, Am 23.06.2014 15:43, schrieb Stephan Kulow:> Hi,

We[¹]'re working on a news article on Factory becoming a true rolling distribution[²] instead of being the development branch.

As you will be very well aware, it's been a while since 13.1 (acording to the original 8 month cycle we would release in 3 weeks - and I'm actually quite happy we're not putting a release out a day after the Final ;-)

What "Final"?

But I still would like to listen reasons why people should not be sad 13.2 is not released, but rather take a second look at switching to Factory.

And for this I need your help: why did you switch to Factory or why do you consider it? What are the selling points of Factory? What killer features are in Factory that we don't have in 13.1?

* "Stable Release" is boring * It's always the latest and greatest * It's only for experts -- it separates the men from the boys * It frequently breaks and you get to keep both pieces, which is entertaining an a lot of fun... OOps. It looks like the all new "Factory-NG" is not qualifying for my needs anymore :-) -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Stephan Kulow wrote:

And for this I need your help: why did you switch to Factory or why do you consider it? What are the selling points of Factory? What killer features are in Factory that we don't have in 13.1?

To be honest I moved to Factory due to word of mouth ;) given that both Raymond and Alin at the time were using it daily. My best selling points for Factory: - newer versions of software -> not just for the new factor, but because it's useful to see how "new" software interacts with "stable" software - It enables me to actually use software I'm interested in (example: Python 3 support for KDevelop, which requires Python 3.4) - Having also the latest KDE stack helps me in my routine in the KDE Forums, because I can see if issues are fixed in newer versions, if there are regressions, and if particular combinations cause or solve issues - If something in KDE breaks due to the stack, I can also discuss it upstream - I can also keep at the edge of my (minor) KDE development without having to build stuff myself (but that's more of an OBS feature rather than just Factory) -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 15:43:29 +0200 Stephan Kulow wrote:

And for this I need your help: why did you switch to Factory or why do you consider it? What are the selling points of Factory? What killer features are in Factory that we don't have in 13.1?

I'm only running factory to see what bugs there may be in 13.2. It seems to be running OK on this machine - having installed from the M0 DVD and kept up-to-date - but is unusable on a second due to a zombie bug from 12.3 and is a wee bit flaky on a third. Factory is obviously still bleeding-edge and I would have thought that anyone who wanted a rolling distribution would require something that was a bit more reliable. I can see why people might want a rolling distribution but I feel more secure with my own method of having three root partitions with one holding the latest release, the previous release (say) being on a second partition and the development system on the third. With this set-up I can back off to the previous release if the latest version proves to be unreliable. -- Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks. openSUSE 13.2-m0 (64-bit); KDE 4.13.2; AMD Phenom II X2 550 Processor; Kernel: 3.15.0-rc7; Video: nVidia GeForce 210 (using nouveau driver); Sound: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org