OP: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-03/msg00146.html Luca Beltrame composed on 2015-03-24 16:10 (UTC+0100):
At present Plasma 5 is not ready for prime time. It is cripple-ware. I'm seriously considering reinstalling Tumbleweed (and KDE4).
Did you read the whole mail that introduced this thread, in particular the last paragraph? I asked for constructive feedback. "Cripple-ware" is not constructive feedback.
Bear in mind that the soon-to-be-released 5.3 version is much improved compared to the current 5.2. I wouldn't have recommended 5.3 for default if it weren't.
How much is much? "Much improved" is just hyperbole if the improvement isn't enough to get it across the threshhold from clearly betaware into good enough to do that which was previously both possible, and depended upon. Lots of fixes and feature additions can make anything look "much improved" compared to an immediately previous incarnation, but what counts for an ostensible replacement that will supercede any more fully evolved and stable predecessor is can it replace it with a minimum or no fuss. History tells us that the KDE4 team caused huge displeasure and dissatisfaction, and for a long time, enough to cause a competent fork of KDE3, as well as commitment to keeping KDE3 in openSUSE useful long past when upstream support ended. Those unconcious of the past are doomed to repeat it.
(I'm running Plasma git master on all my machines)
There is no "KDE4" just like there's no "KDE5". This discussion only touches the workspace (Plasma Workspace 4.x) and not the applications, which will take far longer to port to the KF5 libraries (this was also stated in the original mail).
From user perspective, those are distinctions without differences. Users have to call what comes from kde.org something, and they will choose what's easy over something long-winded and/or complicated, especially if the short version matches what they selected on an installation menu. It's little different from people referring to Gnome when dealing with its underlying toolkit GTK's issues.
If you also hop on the opensuse-kde ML archives, you'll see the results of our evaluation of the situation.
Don't forget that after August the long-term support period of the 4.x workspace will end, which has important impacts on security.
That's an unfortunate plan, resulting from the practicalities of coupling grandiose intent with less than adequate resources to fulfill that intent in conformance with the announced timetable. Wanting to be at a particular point doesn't get you there. Good faith, intent and effort are all well and good, but not there yet is still not there yet. Wishing it were ready for mere mortal users of openSUSE, particularly those coerced into upgrading on account of end of security support for what they are familiar with, and sensing it so from the perspectives only of Luca, umski and Yamaban, does not make it ready for that substantial installed base.
More details (or even better: bug reports upstream or on b.o.o if they're packaging errors) would be most welcome.
It also takes work to file good bug reports, reports that stand a reasonable chance of being acted upon. Not the least of it is getting in position to test in the first place, acquiring a place to put it, then installing, and only then seeing what happens. Filing a good bug means making a reasonable effort to not duplicate an existing bug, participating in an existing bug when appropriate[1], ensuring a problem is reproducable, and at least trying to identify the appropriate tracker to search or file in, in addition to creating a good summary and good description of the problem (or feature request) if writing a new report. Bug reports generating little to no response and/or labeled "unconfirmed" like [2], and mailing list queries similarly ignored[3], lessen will to do that work, and will to test and find more bugs, no matter how dedicated and valiant the effort of those writing code and doing the packaging. [1] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982 I cannot set my short date to YYYY-MM-DD, nor my time to HH:MM [2] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=297219 places pane obfuscates useable locations with useless locations [3] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde accepts subscriptions, but claims "No messages have been posted to this list yet, so the archives are currently empty." (I posted there twice 3 days ago.) -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org