Hi, I only now saw this post... 've been working with hardware vendors for a while and their primary objective with drivers is cost reduction. A major cost for them is regression testing for new drivers. So if they can avoid testing they'll do that. So if they release the 8-9 driver, and that works well with a Toshiba 205d (and whichever chipset release in there), then they recommend to just use 8-9 with Toshiba 205d and to not update the driver, ever, unless being told. Only if they find a significant issue with 8-9 on toshiba 205d (and have committed to fix issues there to Toshiba), they'll retest that chipset with the current driver (for the sake of an example let's say 9-3). Then Toshiba 205d users (i.e. the chipset in there) are reccomended to update to 9-3. Why do they do that? If they don't update the driver for Toshiba 205d, they don't need to test on 205d. This approach is a given. We will not change them to start regression testing. That's just how it is. Now what we _can_ do is, we start building the different ati driver versions in parallel in an obs project: project: ati-fglrx packages: ati-fglrx-8.8 ati-fglrx-8.9 ati-fglrx-8.10 ati-fglrx-9.1 ati-fglrx-9.2 .. and then the user chooses The Right Package. Two approaches have been discussed in the Driver Backports and distribution LF workgroup http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Driver_Backport to make this user choice automatic, and to automate the rare case that ATI reccomends to update the driver on some systems. option #1 was to make the driver KMP exact in specifying the supported pci-ids. option #2 was to create a repository per system, a 'driver kit'. So you have a project Toshiba, with Subproject 205p. This project 'aggregates' the ati-fglrx-8.9 package. And if ATI would reccomend to upgrade 205p to, say, 9.3, then the aggregate would be changed to do this migration. You, like all other toshiba 205p users, have your machine connected to this project. The nice little tool "Jockey" from our friends at ubuntu could be used to make this repo addition automatic, e.g. based on the smbios id of the machine type. S. full quote of the old mail below... "David C. Rankin" <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> writes:
Listmates,
There are 2 issues that need to be addressed regarding the fglrx driver and the upcoming 11.2 release. Currently in 11.1, there are many laptop cards supposedly "supported" by the ATI driver that crash or hardlock when the driver is installed. Currently my X1200 is one, the 200 is another from the list (I'm not sure what the technical card architecture is for the "200"). Suffice it to say, this is a significant problem for all affected users. The issues that need to be addressed pre-11.2 are:
(1) Performance issues and crashes caused by the ATI driver. Recent driver problems: The 9-2 driver release caused my Toshiba 205d laptop to reboot on xdm start and the 9-3 driver caused my laptop to hardlock if glxgears was started. All fglrx drivers 8-10 through 8-12 had performance of less than 60% of the 8-9 driver. Compounding the problem is the fact that nothing prior to the 8-12 driver will even compile or run on 11.1 or later (presuming 11.2 as well)
Thankfully, there are some cards that seem to do OK with the recent 9-3 driver on 11.1, but it is hit or miss ...and... the fact that it works on "some" does nothing to address and help the users where it "does not" work. Before the 11.2 release, Novell needs to get a handle on what cards will and will not run with the ATI driver and at least incorporate a warning or release note for those with affected hardware.
(2) Confirm - ATI driver support will be dropped for all R300-R500 ATI cards post 9-3 driver release (per phoronix.com ATI forum). This is another *biggie* Novell needs to get its arms around, to again, either incorporate into the installer a way to not install the driver on non-supported hardware or identify and warn about the lack of support for all R300-R500 cards.
That means no (nada) fglrx driver support for the R300-R500 series cards which include the: 9500, 9600, 9700, 9800, X300, X550, X600, X700, X800, X850 AllInWonder, and X1050 cards affecting all laptops bought before Q3 2005 (or January 2007 in the case of the X1050). All of which are still *very* prevalent in the group of laptops that make up the installed user base today and will continue to do so through 11.2 release. This issue of dropping support is separate and apart from issue (1) above because the group of cards in (1) are supposedly still supported.
Other Thoughts:
After Stefan Dirsch handed over the reins of driver maintainer to Bob Walmsley <bob@walmsley.com.au> I guess he is now the guy that this should be coordinated through. I am glad to try and help, and to run test cases, etc. since I drew the black bean in laptop selection so let me know if/when there are new cases to test. I follow the ATI driver releases and test each one so I have a good handle on where things stand today. The problem is that Novell needs to use its resources to get a working partner in ATI to address some of these issues. Luugi Marsan <atilinuxnovellbugs@ati.com> was in the past the ATI contact, but at present, I haven't a clue who the ATI contact is or even if there is one. Without a good contact, we are dead-in-the-water getting any of these issues addressed and we are guaranteed a significant number of stranded users if these issues are not addressed.
Right now the 8-9 driver works fine for 10.3 and 11.0, but unfortunately it is incompatible with 11.1. The ATI issues prevent me, and all others affected, from being able to move to 11.1. Hopefully, if Novell will start now to address some of these driver issues with ATI, then by 11.2 release they have a good chance of ironed out.
With a desktop, you can always rip the ATI card out and replace it. With a laptop ... you are kind-of stuck.
-- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
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