On 28 December 2016 at 13:23, nicholas <ndcunliffe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 10:57:29 CET Richard Brown wrote:
On 28 December 2016 at 10:48, Aleksa Sarai <asarai@suse.de> wrote:
On 12/28/2016 09:16 PM, nicholas wrote:
from experience and looking around forums, how to update tumbleweed correctly is not obvious, and not clearly presented. The lack of guidence is causing confusion and problems.
The rest of this post is based on my ASSUMPTION that 'sudo zypper dup --no- allow-vendor-change' is best practice.
AFAIK, "zypper up" is all you need to do -- Tumbleweed is a rolling release so there's no distribution version to update to. In fact, "zypper dup" will probably not do what you want.
`zypper up` is all you need to do, most of the time. It's certainly safe, and won't do anything stupid.
but zypper up will rarely/never tidy up after itself, leaving to orphaned packages lurking around over time. These are often benign.
zypper up is also very conservative in some aspects of its dependency resolution, so if Tumbleweed or any additional repo package maintainers have done major changes to the dependency tree of a package it's possible zypper up might get tripped up while `zypper dup` will be fine.
Of course, zypper dup comes with the additional risk of freely changing repositories, making it practically like russian roulette on a TW machine with OBS devel or home repos present. (Remember, Devel and Home repos do not use the openSUSE Vendor).
But this risk is mitigated by `zypper dup --no-allow-vendor-change` which does the tidy up, more relaxed dependency resolution, and yet still ensures you're getting packages from the repositories you as the admin have intended, by only upgrading from the same 'vendor' as the current packages.
zypper dup does not. It's purpose is to allow you to upgrade between Leap versions (or to switch between distributions entirely like Leap -> Tumbleweed).
Yes, but, see above ;) dup still has it's place for Tumbleweed.
- Is the dup default of allow-vendor-change really required for leap upgrade?
It shouldn't be, because both vendors are "openSUSE" (IIRC).
Yes, but any additional repos are not "openSUSE", and as the instructions advise removing additional repos and starting from a fresh official-only base, zypper dup gets you there :)
Doing a dup with --no-allow-vendor-change from Leap 42.1 to Leap 42.2 on a machine that had additional repos will likely lead to a very broken Leap 42.2 machine.
you have confimed that dup in tumbleweed is still required. however, IMHO the rest of the reply simply: - explains the purpose of each command - states the issues raised together with an algorithmic prescription for workarounds [x is safe, but if xx you need then do to y, z might cause this, xx should, xyx is russian roullette, etc]
If you have a hole in your bucket, the better solution is to plug the hole rather than run around with a mop
it would appear for *TW* that `zypper dup --no-allow-vendor-change` requires no ifs, buts, mights, shoulds or coulds?
apologies, i missed some of the posts when replying: further: (Aleksa)
AFAIK, "zypper up" is all you need to do -- Tumbleweed is a rolling release so there's no distribution version to update to. This proves my point, i did this and ended with a non-conforming system - 'up' does not delete older packages and can get to a state where new packages will not be installed -> does zypper not give you messages "the following packages will not be installed"?
(Richard) You have explained what each command does, since getting my fingers burnt im well aware, most on factory will also be aware. The crux of the post is not a request for help or clarification, it is a statement of the fact that neither 'up' nor 'dup' is the "right tool for the job" on *tumbleweed* and negotiating the between them is not easy for the uninitiated, nor is there any clean solution which is well communicated. Making the analogy to apt-get does not make the minutia of repo consistency any easier. Stating that zypper etc gives you a warning is not a well designed UI. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org