Eric Schirra <ecsos@opensuse.org> writes:
Am Mittwoch, 6. Juli 2022, 14:18:22 CEST schrieb Dan Čermák:
Eric Schirra <ecsos@opensuse.org> writes:
Am Dienstag, 5. Juli 2022, 18:19:37 CEST schrieb Michael Pujos:
The day some essential software (such as Firefox) is only available as flatpak on Tumbleweed (whether audited or not), will be the day I seriously consider switching distro. I sort of understand why the trend is to run software into boxes into boxes, but I really dislike it.
My fullest agreement, Michael!!! I do not want the containers and do not think much of them. I also don't know why it's so much easier than creating an RPM package. I build quite a few packages for Leap and Tumbleweed. I don't have any problems with that and I don't think it will get any better. When I already read a faltpak within a RPM. What kind of bullshit is that? Or that there should be different runtimes for KDE, GNOME, Tumbleweed and so on. What a bullshit. There is nothing easier......
I would kindly ask you to refrain from calling some technology bullshit only because you don't see its use-case. This is not productive use of our time.
Please do not take this personally.
One of the ideas that we have is to deliver the community packages of e.g. Firefox from Tumbleweed as flatpaks to ALP. This simplifies the work for the involved packagers and improves the security isolation and is imho everything but cow excrement.
Sorry. But for me, this is just a really stupid idea. And for me, that's just total crap.
I am not taking this personally, I am merely telling you that calling a technology or approach against which you have some kind of gripe "crap", "bullshit" and "really stupid" without bringing any arguments why is disrespectful and unproductive. Thus please back your claims with technical arguments and use a different language. This is not a place for such a language.
And if I read this correctly, then there is no more KDE for the time being, but only Gnome. Possibly later then KDE should come. (Stand in eatherpad info) Ne. Not with me.
The situation in ALP is no different than it is in SLED! SLED ships only the GNOME desktop, yet somehow you are still able to use KDE on Leap and on Tumbleweed. The community is providing the KDE packages for Leap and the same could happen with ALP. Now with using flatpaks, we have the ability to use a single code stream to provide an up to date KDE for all ALP and openSUSE users, which would be an improvement over the current state.
Could happen. But does not have to. And not at all in the beginning. SUSE is simply out of the picture.
In my opinion, I've said before and I'll stick to it, this is a marketing stuff, which sooner or later backfires. You won't need less work and less people, but more. I have already looked at Manjaro and am currently working my way in. A great distro. And I also think it would be more performant. So if this container stuff comes, I'm gone from SUSE after about 20years. :-( Or you could just stick to Tumbleweed, which will not get this "container stuff". Or you can join our discussion and find a way how to make alp work for all of us.
Tumbleweed doesn't get containerized stuff? I have read other things.
Tumbleweed will be the place where development is going to take place, but there are no plans to fundamentally alter Tumbleweed. You'll still be able to use Tumbleweed like you used before. Additionally, you'll be able to use the "containerized stuff", but you won't have to, at least for the foreseeable future.[1]
That is another point of criticism.
Can someone create a table with the differences between Leap, Leap ALP, Leap micro, Leap micoos, Tumbleweed, SLES, SLED. What differences are there in all the "versions". I don't know anymore.
- Leap is the community edition of SLES. - SLES is the enterprise operating system of SUSE, with the latest release being SLE 15 which might be the last SLE. - SLED is the desktop edition of SLE, i.e. it's SLE + GNOME desktop. It is fully supported by SUSE and thus only ships the GNOME desktop. - Leap Mirco/MicroOS is based on SLE MicroOS, which is essentially a small footprint version of SLE/Leap with transaction-update and utilizes a read-only root partition. - Leap ALP is a potential community version of ALP. Hope this helps, Dan Footnotes: [1] And yes, I have no idea how long "foreseeable future" is or what will happen in the next 10 years. So I cannot guarantee what will happen. -- Dan Čermák <dcermak@suse.com> Software Engineer Development tools SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Frankenstrasse 146 90461 Nürnberg Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Director/Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew Myers, Andrew McDonald, Boudien Moerman