Am 14.06.2012 23:31, schrieb Obexer Christoph:
I've seen a few openSuSE releases from the Factory perspective (being here since the KDE4.0 release) and the failure pattern for Factory was always the same:
did you use it or are you just reading the flames on this list?
1) nobody uses Factory
I do. On my main work machine, exclusively. I had a fallback partition with the "latest released" version for emergencies, but after some incompatible update in Factory (some kde4 update which would have trashed the shared $HOME if I booted the old one) I never booted it again. It's now at 11.4 level. => Factory *is* rock solid if you remotely know what you are doing. If, of course, "zypper dup" suggests removing 500 packages and switching the rest from x86_64 to i586, then my common sense kicks in and I skip this update until tomorrow.
2) nobody cares for Factory
Not true. Check the commit logs how many packages I fixed for autoconf / gcc47 / other trivial stuff, which I never use or even have installed on my system. A "osc pr -q -s F openSUSE:Factory" is something I do daily and if there are low hanging fruits that are easy to fix (and there always are) and I have 5 minutes to spare, then I fix them. So you are actively insulting all people working on Factory -- not a good strategy if you want to make more people participate :-)
* feature freeze comes close 3) rush in unstable packages to catch the next release with the wanted version * as a Factory user you should skip the next 1 or 2 milestones because they are horrible
Alternatively, you, as a Factory user, could bug the maintainer of packages that you use to actually submit earlier. This often works quite fine. I sometimes send mails like "in devel:project:foo you have already newer version of bar, how about submitting this to Factory so we can get testing coverage early" and sometimes the answer is "no, it is really not yet ready for consumption" but often it is "thanks for the reminder, that's a good idea, we simply forgot about Factory".
4) Beta1 * a few people in the community fix up some of the bugs (and start to look at BNC) 5) RC1, better but still not up to where it should be 6) time based release have to go out, "we fix that with an update"
That's what I also don't like, but then somewhen the thing needs to go out of the door. I personally don't bother, since I'm using Factory anyway.
my proposal is - as noted in the Fate entry:
drop Factory do it tumbleweed style, that is a package goes into release(Tumbleweed) when its stable and has been tested, if it breaks something -> revert since Tumbleweed is always stable just release openSuSE $VERSION on time by copying Tumbleweed into a release repo
and never ever update gcc/glibc/perl/whatever again. No.
doing this the right way would make openSuSE a whole lot more stable IMHO, and it would also attract more contributors, because getting something in the hands of actual users could be done as a weekend project, instead of a multiple month time investment
You'd still need a devel project to find out when something is stable enough to go into your "stable Factory" Tumbleweed. I, as a developer, would not want to use something as old, outdated and boring like tumbleweed on my machine. So if we drop Factory, I'll definitely need to find something else to install on my box(es, starting after the 12.2 release I will move my home servers also to Factory as it is less work to keep it working then to fix up after a "release update").
i could go into more detail, but I'm unwanted here so i try to keep it short
Everybody is unwanted here. Can you imagine "they" even declined some of my submit requests? And voted my features down? I probably should also shut up... -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org