Ruediger Meier schrieb:
Yes it's a personal attack. But he deserves it.
Hold on. NOBODY _deserves_ personal attacks.
Everyone in this community (meaning the wider FLOSS community here), esp. everyone actively putting work into any part of it, wants to be productive and do something positive for this world. We all might have different views of what's the best ways to go on certain things, but we're all trying to make things better from our own point of view and work hard on that. Personal attacks have no space in such an environment.
If you want to be taken seriously by other people on this list or in any other similar setting, you need to talk in "how can this issue be solved" and not in "this is crap" and/or "you suck" terms. If you can't do that, you will never be happy in those communities, and they will never be happy about you. So please restrain yourself and learn how to argue constructively. There's enough destructiveness in this world that we better make this place a constructive one.
That said, standard Linux has shown pretty clearly in the last couple of years that it needs a change in the basic boot and process/system management field. OK, we're doing pretty OK in servers, but they don't need a lot in this area, being rarely rebooted and rarely changing what they are doing, so the same main processes stay up and spawn whatever helpers they need and that's it. In the desktop and mobile fields though, the major competitors outperform us in just about everything in that space - booting _way_ faster (esp. Win7 is pretty good there), having first-class management of system/background services, etc.
If we want to compete in those areas, we need solutions there, and it has been pretty hard to get sysvinit in shape for any of that. It looks like most distribution maintainers at a higher level agree that the ideas that systemd is being based on look like a good base for solving a lot in this space. Yes, it's painful to switch something so deep in our stack and there will be some cases where there's some work needed to get things to work with systemd that had been working with sysvinit, but switching back on those systems is likely only a temporary solution and only pushes out the problem instead of solving it. Let's work together to find solutions.
We all want Linux, esp. openSUSE, to be successful, and so we need to bite the bullet and find ways to make us competitive so we can attract people to use those systems. One way to get there is to improve systemd enough to cover all cases we need. If you feel systemd is not a good base for solving the problems, try finding an alternative that can fix both not being competitive in those areas _and_ the problems you see in systemd, and maybe what comes out of this is even better. People are surely open to that.
Still, don't attack others, but work with them to find solutions even more people can be happy with.