On 5/24/22 01:27, Gerald Pfeifer wrote:
On Fri 2022-05-20, Hagen Buliwyf wrote:
However working in IT for more than thirty years now there is one rule which i consider very important:
An update must not break a working system.
Agreed. From a user perspective that is key.
(Or at least, "an update must not break a commonly configured system" or "...not easily / without ample notification...").
Before that update every system (using NetworkManager) had installed NetworkManager with wifi-functionality (even the systems setup with --no-recommends). Therefore an update which removed that functionality without notice carried the risk to break at least some systems.
Maybe a better mechanism to advise of such situations *before* the user is in troubles can be part of the solution?
I spent some of my time watching various German openSUSE forums and I can see that "incidents" like the one discussed here (or the split of the bluez package a few weeks ago)
Ah, that one? I did fall into that trap myself and wasn't too happy.
And Simon Lees wrote:
Recommends really means "The maintainer thinks you really should have this unless your use case has a very good reason not to". So in most cases --no-recommends probably isn't the best starting point for end users even experienced ones.
I'm not convinced. Without using --no-recommends by default I found my system was getting more and more bloated over time (and even with that).
So I just tried `zypper -v up --recommends` on my notebook and ... <drumroll> ...
After the operation, additional 1,8 GiB will be used.
bringing in things like
brltty* git-cvs gtk2-engine-hcengine gtk2-immodule-amharic gtk2-immodule-inuktitut gtk2-immodule-thai gtk2-immodule-tigrigna gtk2-immodule-vietnamese gtk3-immodule-amharic gtk3-immodule-inuktitut gtk3-immodule-thai gtk3-immodule-tigrigna gtk3-immodule-vietnamese
Thankyou for reminding me, the "Language" part is something we should try to address better for ALP so you can specify the language or languages you'd like and just get immodules and translations for that language rather then the all or nothing approach we have now. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B