Hi Jeff, Lars and Everyone.
Lars Vogdt wrote:
Hi Jeff, james
On Mi 06 Mai 2009 00:32:16 CEST Jeff Shantz <jeff.shantz(a)gmail.com>
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:22 AM, James Tremblay
> when a user decides to use the "add on " feature the YaST module should
> provide four basic patterns
I'm sorry, but I don't think we need this. I know that James always
"figthing" against our existing patterns (sometimes he tells me he's
not seeing them at all ;-) but I think we've covered this area already.
I'm sorry. but If a 15 year veteran of PC networking is having issues
with something there must be a problem. I could not get the gnome
patterns to show any changes to the install at all.
If we need improvements here, I see the following options:
* improve the current patterns (available in our SVN resp. in the
Education repository as packages patterns-education-desktop and
Only two patterns is educationally USELESS. Unless you
can prove to me
from equal experience, AKA 15 years of building and managing school
networks with over 500 PC's in one location and managing as many as 11
locations in one school district, that I am wrong. Children don't come
with a one size fits all brain. Three student desktop patterns based on
age groups is an imperative. I have used ZENworks for desktops for at
least 10 years to provide this and if you ask in the Novell TTP list for
k-12 novelleduc(a)lists.novttp.org you will find hundreds of technology
directors that agree. Also search Novell's knowledge base and cool
solutions for things related to schools you will find that a common
thread is how to deliver to these age groups
* improve the automatic activation of the patterns if
a user adds the
* write a special YaST Module which includes in the initial
installation workflow and shows a list of extra applications
* create different sets of CDs/DVDs - for example:
** Server-CD: just containing what's needed for a school server (and
even here I see different target groups...)
** Desktop-DVD for grade 6 classes
** Desktop-DVD for higher grade classes
A DVD Is over 4 GB native and 8 GB in dual
layer , most places are lucky
to have a 1mb connection to the internet, in parts of India the only
place to the internet for miles is a cafe. Those parents who can get a
computer need to be able to order or be given the DVD's and don't care
about filtering anyway. Filtering and Internet Management should always
be an individual choice within the installation patterns.
all those CDs/DVDs could be Live-DVDs including the
YaST-Live-Installer - it's just a question of time until someone in
our comunity asks who they can be created...
Using the "Build Studio" to
build and store subcomponent\specialized
"task disks" is a much smarter idea. we can host individual live "task
disks" in the download area and they don't need the education modules
installation features because the live installer is just a scripted dump
to HD anyway. Think about shipping physical media to the masses and
education for all children. get openSUSE the Distro then get
openSUSE-EDU the add-on , This delivers our system on two disks and that
means low postage and download costs for the "total solution".
- based on the openschoolserver from Extis
, including choices for an SIS
information system) Class or openSIS, School administrative software
This is interesting. I haven't seen openschoolserver or openSIS
before, but I see from your profile that were/are involved in openSIS
development. Perhaps we could chat more about how it could be
integrated into the education module once I've had a chance to explore
openSIS a bit. From my limited knowledge of openSIS, I am assuming
you just envision that when the user selects "Server" in the education
module, it simply initiates the installation of the Base Application
edition of openSIS, and then informs the user of the URL to which they
can browse in order to continue configuration within openSIS. Does
this sound reasonable, or do you envision the module going more deeply
into openSIS configuration?
Thanks for your comments.
My original idea behind the YaST-Education module:
* first provide a solution for home users
The 3 age groups still exist.
* afterwards think about improving the module (if
needed) for a
Giving children access to what they have in school helps build
confidence in their computing skills. Think school first (eight hrs per
day), home second (6 hrs per day), more importantly think TOTAL
SOLUTION! The NASCAR \ INDY crew chief respects the car designer but
listens to the driver. What would the teacher want? Parents and Teachers
usually share the same goals but teachers are trained to deliver them.
Why? Because my personal view shows that many distributions try to get
into schools - and not many trying to get on the PCs in the nursery...
Studies show that leaving a computer in a child's room is detrimental to
their performance in school. That all computer usage should be in a
family room area. This way questions about their school work can be most
easily be answered. This also helps the child to interact with the
parents for as long as possible every day. These same studies show that
having a TV in a child's room is also detrimental even when the parent
can control content and play time. it's emotionally and physically
isolating which is bad for anyone.
Not to mention the fact that most homes don't have a dedicated PC for
the child or children , it's just to expensive.
So from my point of view, here's a list of
requirements. Main goal:
provide parents with a way to control settings for their children in
All that takes is for the kiosk tools to work. I have had a running bug
report on Sabayon for two years
search "Sabayon" in
the main bugzilla for more.
Includes (this is not final):
* activate a "kiosk like" desktop (Sugar?) to simplify the kids desktop
* set system restrictions to allow only launching specific applications
* limit the access to the PC for a set amount of time per day or week
* include "Bedtime" limit (don't use the computer at night...)
good in the "Primary" or k-6 pattern.
* restrict internet connection:
** use squidGuard for blocking/filtering URLs (or use whitelists)...
** use Firewall settings for blocking/filtering Email, IRC, Chat, ...
** Use a logfile or a "popup" to show kids and parents that (and why)
a webpage is blocked - and "relink" them to a (YaST-) Module to allow
that page (temporary).
Good as a choice on all patterns , however , should have the
be disabled when using an LDAP or other authentication service. This way
schools can manage these things from the infrastructure with group or
The points on this list are IMO very important for home users. ...and
IMO the same rules apply for schools. Think about "Kiosk-Computers" in
a school cafeteria or think about computer lessons, where a teacher
wants to show/allow only a specific application.
Think about schools allowing their students a limited set of pages
printed out on the school printer...
In both Active Directory and Novell
e-Directory schools these settings
are managed with network tools like Zenworks and Group Policies and can
be in Linux networks too with combinations of tools like group
memberships and Sabayon or the kde kiosk tool. Forcing network protocol
management into the desktop patterns would just mean more to shut off
for the team of people (usually teachers) who manage the PC's using
network based desktop management tools. If the network manager or parent
can go into a tool(sabayon) and add students\children to a new group
that gets access to xyz application, isn't that much easier and useful.
With kind regards,
James A. Tremblay
openSIS Product Specialist
e-mail james "at" os4ed.com
Registered Linux user #440182
e-mail sleducator "at" opensuse.org
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