The visionless leading the partially unsighted?
Hi all: Apologies in advance if there are any colleagues here working for exam boards.. I got a letter this week from OCR telling me they were dropping some optional units from their AVCE ICT. They (the exam boards) are all changing over to an applied VCE in a year or two so this is the last run of this specification. In light of this I thought it would be a good time to phone with a speculative foray into changing their specifications to reflect the real world of IT. I thought that given Apache runs 70% of all web sites and that IT Week this week says that Linux server adoption is off the scale it would be timely for exam boards to reflect the interest and up-take of Linux in the industry and offer a Linux unit in their optional choices. I was prepared to write something up (with the approval and support of this community) and even support it with moderating and exam papers if necessary. I phoned OCR first, "what's it called?", mm, not a good start. They seemed less than keen to get involved. The main person was not there but I was assured that all of the materials had been written already and there was no real plans for additional ones for the next few years. I then called Edexcel who currently have Unit 24 and Unit 25 which equate directly to Cisco Semesters 1/2 and 3/4. They had no idea what I was talking about at all (a quick crash test on their server revealled IIS which may explain this lack of knowledge). I was told again that the "exciting" new applied material would be published in the Summer but there was no room for any development of this or additional material. I know I am somewhat biased in that I am on this site and have been using Linux for several years but any casual perusal of mainstram magazines will tell you that Linux is not some backwater freak show. All of the big players are adopting it in some form and even Microsoft take it seriously enough to try to rubbish it in adverts. When will the exam boards reflect reality? At my last school I ran a Cisco Academy and due to expense (and personal interest) I had Linux as all the servers and some of the desktops. The kids were rather dismissive of my evangelising but learned it reluctantly. I have kept in touch with most of them and whether they have gone on to jobs in IT or University courses they say that the thing that did it for them was not the Cisco but the Linux experience. So endeth my rant. Paul Ps Anyone going to Novell HQ on Tuesday for the Linux seminar? -- De Omnibus Dubitandum
--- Paul Taylor <ptaylor@uklinux.net> wrote: > Hi all:
and offer a Linux unit in their optional choices. I was prepared to write something up (with the approval and support of this community) and even support it with moderating and exam papers if necessary.
I think the reason why exam boards are afraid to offer such options is that it is new -- it has not been tried and tested. Now I realise this is paradoxical, but perhaps the other main reason is that there are a lack of qualified people to actually *teach* the proposed module. Indeed, given the vast area that Linux focuses, where do you draw the line? ICT for windows is fine -- you can concentrate on simple web design (why some students/teachers enforce the use of FrontPage is beyond me!), spreadsheet, word processing, etc... You *could* do this under Linux, but that wouldn't be introducing anything new that the student wouldn't encounter under Windows Of course it is not just about looking at similarities or differences. What is it about Linux though that is different from Windows? If you want to introduce them to Linux, they're going to have to be made aware of very very very basic programming, for the shell (unless you try and stick to an all GUI environment, but that is both hard, and very restrictive to its capabilities). But what would you draft up? Setting up a webserver? Installing Apache?
tell you that Linux is not some backwater freak show. All of the big players are adopting it in some form and even Microsoft take it seriously enough to try to rubbish it in adverts. When will the exam boards reflect
Yes, but just because something is popular, that doesn't mean much. I've said this here before, and I'll say it again. When I was at school (~6 years ago now) Linux was just hitting the acknowledgement level. Forward to today when I am now at University, and not even *I* get to use it at Uni. It's all still very much windows-based. (there are exceptions to this, that I am changing). Why is this? Well, most of the idi^H^H^J~H lecturers either don't know much about it, have never used it, or are forced by way of policy to use it. Bugger the students, it would seem.... -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net "<shrug> We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Indeed, given the vast area that Linux focuses, where do you draw the line? ICT for windows is fine -- you can concentrate on simple web design (why some students/teachers enforce the use of FrontPage is beyond me!), spreadsheet, word processing, etc...
Speaking from experience regarding Frontpage in schools, the main arguments presented are: Its like Word. Its an interface that is reasonably similar, and nothing scarily new for them, which means you can cut down on any familiarisation sessions and get to the nitty gritty of web page creation. Its also part of the Campus agreement licence for Office, so we're already licenced to install it on machines. Thankfully we've got teachers here who actually show the kids what HTML tags look like and teach them to strip down FrontPage, but it is a necessary evil as far as they're concerned. Certainly a Dreamweaver licence is a bit of an added expense that we'd rather not have to fork out!----- Paul Graydon Network Technician Haywards Heath Sixth Form College http://www.hhc.ac.uk (01444) 456281 In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)
Thomas Adam wrote...
I think the reason why exam boards are afraid to offer such options is that it is new -- it has not been tried and tested.
I for one would rephrase this... "I think the reason why exam boards are afraid to offer such options is that it is not 'old hat' and they have an fundamental abhorrence of anything that might involve them in 'trying and testing' something different."
Now I realise this is paradoxical, but perhaps the other main reason is that there are a lack of qualified people to actually *teach* the proposed module.
...which tips us into a circular argument about there being a lack of courses and qualifications for those who might want to learn how to teach such a module. There's also the fact that Linux has traditionally been 'self-taught' ...at the level of 'kernel development coordinator' all the way down to the humble user. Indeed I'd be surprised if Linus Tourvalds himself possesses a formal academic 'Linux' qualification. Now the same used to be true of Microsoft people / developers / users up until the 1990s. For back in the 80s when I was most active at the leading (and all too often bleeding) edge of software development there were no qualifications to be had other than 'Computer Science' degrees. Furthermore, at that time Computer Science degrees were considered a 'Kiss of Death' with regard to a graduates suitability for employment in the harsh real (non-academic) creative world of software development. Like them or loath them, since the late 80s Microsoft has invested heavily in its own qualification system. Academics followed suit with their own watered down versions, having rejecting Microsoft's offerings the result of academia's endemic all-pervasive 'Not Invented Here' syndrome. So what's the answer? Well maybe the Linux community simply has to come up with a qualification structure and range of courses commensurate with that of Microsoft's. Only then will academia rush to produce their own self-referentially 'valid' academic qualification. David Bowles
--- David Bowles <dbowles@educationsupport.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
"I think the reason why exam boards are afraid to offer such options is that it is not 'old hat' and they have an fundamental abhorrence of anything that might involve them in 'trying and testing' something different."
... which is not what I said, and puts words in my mouth.
Now I realise this is paradoxical, but perhaps the other main reason is that there are a lack of qualified people to actually *teach* the proposed module.
...which tips us into a circular argument about there being a lack of courses and qualifications for those who might want to learn how to teach such a module.
Yes, but then I have already said this. This is not a recent issue. Its been like this for a good number of years.
There's also the fact that Linux has traditionally been 'self-taught' ...at the level of 'kernel development coordinator' all the way down to the humble user. Indeed I'd be surprised if Linus Tourvalds himself possesses a formal academic 'Linux' qualification.
But it is not about qualifications, there aren't any "formal" linux qualifications, only those offered by commercial entities such as RH (which is actual rather meaningless anyway). [..snip..]
Well maybe the Linux community simply has to come up with a qualification structure and range of courses commensurate with that of Microsoft's. Only then will academia rush to produce their own self-referentially 'valid' academic qualification.
It's not as simple as that. We have to actually get the people who sit on the examboard panel to recognise the need that Linux is growing. I doubt very much creating a course would do any good -- it doesn't actually help them in what they need to know. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net "<shrug> We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
"I think the reason why exam boards are afraid to offer such options is that it is not 'old hat' and they have an fundamental abhorrence of anything that might involve them in 'trying and testing' something different."
... which is not what I said, and puts words in my mouth.
I thoroughly agree. For in actual fact I stated this was my own opinion. I did not intended to give the impression it might be yours, too. David Bowles
But it is not about qualifications, there aren't any "formal" linux qualifications, only those offered by commercial entities such as RH (which is actual rather meaningless anyway).
<snip>
It's not as simple as that. We have to actually get the people who sit on the examboard panel to recognise the need that Linux is growing. I doubt very much creating a course would do any good -- it doesn't actually help them in what they need to know.
Doh! Isn't this a tad contradictory? IMHO the people who sit on exam boards are primarily if not solely interested in creating 'invented by us' academic qualifications. So if it's not about qualifications, then tell me please what is it about? OK, so let's not get into a fruitless circular argument about the meaningfulness of qualifications. Perhaps what we ought to be focusing on is creating genuinely useful Linux courses, irrespective of the 'qualification' that's to be awarded at the end of the course. In fact why not simply award a 'certificate of participation' in the first instance, and then build on this later once such courses are well established and accepted as being genuinely useful. I for one would love to systematically work through a series of well designed Linux courses, principally for the purpose of pulling my knowledge of Linux into a coherent whole and plugging any gaps in my self-learned knowledge. Now where on the web (or elsewhere) can I find such a course? I'd really love to know. Or if such courses don't already exist then where can I find out about assisting in their creation? David Bowles
It's not as simple as that. We have to actually get the people who sit on the examboard panel to recognise the need that Linux is growing.
Or simply bypass the exam boards ;-) There are plenty of precidents. ECDL, MOUS, A+ etc. -- Ian Lynch <ian.lynch@zmsl.com> ZMS Ltd
On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 18:25, David Bowles wrote:
Thomas Adam wrote...
So what's the answer?
Well maybe the Linux community simply has to come up with a qualification structure and range of courses commensurate with that of Microsoft's.
There is the Linux Professional Institute.
Only then will academia rush to produce their own self-referentially 'valid' academic qualification.
We have had our first enquiry from a company about INGOT certification for office workers outside education. (Not bad since it was unsolicited by us) INGOTs are not specifically a linux thing, more in the territory of MOUS and ECDL but I believe they will become widespread based on the market research and once we have the resources we can do OS specific things if there is the demand. Big difference is that the entry level can be 5 years old with progression routes beyond the competitiors. If we start them at 5, why would they want to change to something else? By 14 they'll have all the skills that the other courses think are only appropriate for post 16 :-). Regards, -- Ian Lynch <ian.lynch@zmsl.com> ZMS Ltd
On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 15:53, Paul Taylor wrote:
Hi all:
Apologies in advance if there are any colleagues here working for exam boards.. I got a letter this week from OCR telling me they were dropping some optional units from their AVCE ICT. They (the exam boards) are all changing over to an applied VCE in a year or two so this is the last run of this specification. In light of this I thought it would be a good time to phone with a speculative foray into changing their specifications to reflect the real world of IT. I thought that given Apache runs 70% of all web sites and that IT Week this week says that Linux server adoption is off the scale it would be timely for exam boards to reflect the interest and up-take of Linux in the industry and offer a Linux unit in their optional choices. I was prepared to write something up (with the approval and support of this community) and even support it with moderating and exam papers if necessary. I phoned OCR first, "what's it called?", mm, not a good start. They seemed less than keen to get involved. The main person was not there but I was assured that all of the materials had been written already and there was no real plans for additional ones for the next few years. I then called Edexcel who currently have Unit 24 and Unit 25 which equate directly to Cisco Semesters 1/2 and 3/4. They had no idea what I was talking about at all (a quick crash test on their server revealled IIS which may explain this lack of knowledge). I was told again that the "exciting" new applied material would be published in the Summer but there was no room for any development of this or additional material. I know I am somewhat biased in that I am on this site and have been using Linux for several years but any casual perusal of mainstram magazines will tell you that Linux is not some backwater freak show. All of the big players are adopting it in some form and even Microsoft take it seriously enough to try to rubbish it in adverts. When will the exam boards reflect reality? At my last school I ran a Cisco Academy and due to expense (and personal interest) I had Linux as all the servers and some of the desktops. The kids were rather dismissive of my evangelising but learned it reluctantly. I have kept in touch with most of them and whether they have gone on to jobs in IT or University courses they say that the thing that did it for them was not the Cisco but the Linux experience. So endeth my rant.
Just ran the first course to-day for assessors of theINGOTs.org, a grass roots led ICT accreditation framework that is very FLOSS-friendly. I guess we will have our first 6 or 7 INGOT academies from this and we can then transcend al the above. Why not join us? The more schools that do, the more weight we will have with the powers that be and we can lead from the bottom instead of the top. Details on www.theINGOTs.org. PS I did the whole session using free software :-) -- Ian Lynch <ian.lynch@zmsl.com> ZMS Ltd
When I took my AVCE with Edexcel I did my database unit with MySQL, my comparing os's with windows and linux and my setting up the network with linux. I also used oo.org for all my write up. Now this was in 2002 and I got a AA. So even though they may seem not to accept it, something must have gone on to get me that grade. Just my POV. Jo
V9.0 Hi, Is it possible to have a floppy unmount automatically after any windows browsing it have been closed? Changing for a different disk while the current one is mounted (or replacing the same disk with revised data) causes it to get into a tizzy; and the only remedy it to log out/in again as it does not refresh the drive except when mounting or saving to a (correctly) mounted disk. Am I right in assuming that the FD is only written to when it is unmounted? I don't understand why FD are mounted in this way if the medium can't be mechanically locked al a MAC. It means that I have to think about the mundane. - I thought that was the computers job! :-) If not, is their an alternative floppy driver/management that can be used? (dare I say?) al a Windows? As a mater of interest, does anyone know why this paradigm was used? Kind regards Adrian Wells
--- "adrian.wells" <adrian.wells@sidcot.org.uk> wrote:
Is it possible to have a floppy unmount automatically after any windows browsing it have been closed?
It is, yes, and this could be scripted. Which WM would this be using? Indeed, rox-filer [1] actually does this, if you mount a floppy (/floppy, say) and then close the window in that location, it'll ask you if you want to umount.
Changing for a different disk while the current one is mounted (or replacing the same disk with revised data) causes it to get into a tizzy; and the only remedy it to log out/in again as it does not refresh the drive except when mounting or saving to a (correctly) mounted disk. Am I right in assuming that the FD is only written to when it is unmounted?
That's true. The idea is that concurrently the information is stored in memory and written to only when needed. Unlike windows, this means that polling the drive every second to see if the disk has changed is unnecessary. This reduces the need for disk access which is slow.
I don't understand why FD are mounted in this way if the medium can't be mechanically locked al a MAC.
(see above)
If not, is their an alternative floppy driver/management that can be used? (dare I say?) al a Windows?
There are a few -- "supermount" used to do this, but it is *evil* (and please, do not use it.) autofs is probably your best bet.
As a mater of interest, does anyone know why this paradigm was used?
-- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net "<shrug> We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 12:35, adrian.wells wrote:
V9.0
Hi,
Is it possible to have a floppy unmount automatically after any windows browsing it have been closed? [snip] If not, is their an alternative floppy driver/management that can be used? (dare I say?) al a Windows?
mtools and MtoolFM (the associated filemanager) will access floppy disks and also usb storage devices without the user/sysadmin having to do any mounting. mtools is also able to give access to a device plugged into one machine to another machine on the network. Seb James -- Director, Educational Systems, Hypercube Systems Ltd Providing Open Source ICT solutions for schools. Tel: 0845 458 0277 Web: www.hypercubesystems.co.uk Mob: 07900 958964 Email: seb@hypercubesystems.co.uk
Thanks for all the replies. Do you use these patches in the classroom or do you use the default functionality? Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Seb James" <seb@hypercubesystems.co.uk> To: "suse schools" <suse-linux-uk-schools@suse.com> Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Mounted Floppies
On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 12:35, adrian.wells wrote:
V9.0
Hi,
Is it possible to have a floppy unmount automatically after any windows browsing it have been closed? [snip] If not, is their an alternative floppy driver/management that can be used? (dare I say?) al a Windows?
mtools and MtoolFM (the associated filemanager) will access floppy disks and also usb storage devices without the user/sysadmin having to do any mounting. mtools is also able to give access to a device plugged into one machine to another machine on the network.
Seb James -- Director, Educational Systems, Hypercube Systems Ltd Providing Open Source ICT solutions for schools. Tel: 0845 458 0277 Web: www.hypercubesystems.co.uk Mob: 07900 958964 Email: seb@hypercubesystems.co.uk
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help@suse.com
On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 13:28, adrian.wells wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. Do you use these patches in the classroom or do you use the default functionality?
We don't install Suse on our classroom systems, so I don't know if mtools and MToolsFM are available as Suse packages (though I suspect they are). We do however install mtools and MToolsFM on our (Gentoo based) Thin client classroom servers to give the kids access to their usb floppies and keyrings via the client terminals. Seb James. -- Director, Educational Systems, Hypercube Systems Ltd Providing Open Source ICT solutions for schools. Tel: 0845 458 0277 Web: www.hypercubesystems.co.uk Mob: 07900 958964 Email: seb@hypercubesystems.co.uk
--- Seb James <seb@hypercubesystems.co.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 13:28, adrian.wells wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. Do you use these patches in the classroom or do you use the default functionality?
We don't install Suse on our classroom systems, so I don't know if mtools and MToolsFM are available as Suse packages (though I suspect
Yes, they are. Have been since 6.4 -- although mtools can be very tempermental at times. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net "<shrug> We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Hello, For what it's worth I use SuSE at home and have the same problem. I've been playing around with Mandrake 10 recently and that has the floppy drive mounted as soon as the desktop is up and running, even if there is no disk in. If you swap disks over, you just click 'Reload' on the file manager (Konqueror in my case) and it reads the new disk with no problem. Pretty much like W*****s. Any SuSE developers reading this? Regards, Phil Thane - Support Manager, TechSoft UK Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: adrian.wells [mailto:adrian.wells@sidcot.org.uk] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 12:35 PM To: suse-linux-uk-schools@suse.com Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Mounted Floppies V9.0 Hi, Is it possible to have a floppy unmount automatically after any windows browsing it have been closed? Changing for a different disk while the current one is mounted (or replacing the same disk with revised data) causes it to get into a tizzy; and the only remedy it to log out/in again as it does not refresh the drive except when mounting or saving to a (correctly) mounted disk. Am I right in assuming that the FD is only written to when it is unmounted? I don't understand why FD are mounted in this way if the medium can't be mechanically locked al a MAC. It means that I have to think about the mundane. - I thought that was the computers job! :-) If not, is their an alternative floppy driver/management that can be used? (dare I say?) al a Windows? As a mater of interest, does anyone know why this paradigm was used? Kind regards Adrian Wells -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help@suse.com
--- Phil Thane <phil@techsoftuk.co.uk> wrote:
in. If you swap disks over, you just click 'Reload' on the file manager (Konqueror in my case) and it reads the new disk with no problem. Pretty much like W*****s. Any SuSE developers reading this?
Don't top post, please. What you're describing is a facet of the window manager, and nothing more. It really does just _depend_. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net "<shrug> We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
participants (9)
-
adrian.wells -
David Bowles -
Ian Lynch -
Joanna Harris -
Paul Graydon -
Paul Taylor -
Phil Thane -
Seb James -
Thomas Adam