On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 08:47:03AM +0000, Michael Brown wrote:

OK. By the way, I tried to send you (Frank) the full texts as you requested, but got a mail delivery failure back from : "Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)"

Could you check your mail setup? Sorry to everyone else for sending this on a public list, but at least I know this message will get through.

Apologies Michael. I've been setting up FreeBSD on another hard drive in this box and when I came to setting up qmail I fouled up big-style - created all the aliases in /var/qmail rather than /var/qmail/aliases and then ran fetchmail without the keep option thus bouncing and losing a pile of mail. If you could post that stuff again I'd be grateful and I'll try not to bounce it this time ;-) I thought while I'm about it I'd give the list my impressions of BSD at the risk of being pulled up for being OT. Easy to install using the installation guide and I like the BSD way of using disk slices rather than being constrained by the extended/primary partitions nonsense. Subjectively the machine seems a lot quicker although I haven't run any benchmarks and in any case it's on a different HD. Kernel configuration & compilation is easier than linux and all my frequently used apps/tools have compiled without problems (I prefer compilation rather than packages). System setup takes the same amount of time as linux ie sorting out your shell, terminal, name resolution, routing etc. although I tend to do all that stuff by hand so your mileage might vary. Annoyingly generic kernel not compiled with option to read/write ext2fs, so had to re-compile fairly immediately. Boots up & shuts down a lot quicker as a result of not having the System V-type shell scripts under /etc/rc.d, just has /etc/rc.conf & /etc/rc.local, the first of which is obviously parsed a lot quicker than a whole heap of files symbolically linked and written in tortuous and somewhat arcane shell. Although all my hardware is supported my guess is that a lot less hardware than linux is supported. On the whole though very impressed so far with how it all hangs together. -- Frank *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Boroughbridge. Tel: 01423 323019 --------- PGP keyID: 0xC0B341A3 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/ Such a foolish notion, that war is called devotion, when the greatest warriors are the ones who stand for peace.

On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Phil Driscoll wrote:

The Register are running the following story - the author, Drew Cullen (mailto:drew.cullen@theregister.co.uk) may be receptive to the information recently discussed on this list. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/22918.html

I am waiting for the OFT to get back to me at the moment, so when they ring I'll mention that it's about 2 weeks away from hitting the mainstream press (since that's a typical delay for stories that appear on the Register). Michael

Michael, I take that you have no objection to your last posting and attachment being freely circulated to interested parties? I have a lug meeting tonight and they might be interested (considering Alan Cox is in the lug)... I must admit that this whole issue disgusts me - 70 million buys a lot of nurses and drastically shortens waiting queues but what the hell - we're only unimportant lesser proles who can afford to wait for legs (etc.) to drop off while our great and wonderfully IT Literate leaders line Microshafts pockets at our expense.... Next election I'm voting for Arthur Scargill - anyone want to joing me? Alan ----------------------------------------------------- Alan Harris Network Manager Bryngwyn School Tel : 01554 750661 Fax : 01554 758255 E-mail: alanh@bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk ----------------------------------------------------- Notes: 1. The contents of this email may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown purposes! Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000. 2. The opinions expressed in this email are personal and may not be shared by Bryngwyn School. -----------------------------------------------------

The OFT has replied. Attached is a full transcript of communications to date (16KB worth). Essentially, their argument now boils down to:

"'The Court has held (in particular in Höfner & Elser) that in the context of competition law the concept of an undertaking encompasses every entity engaged in an economic activity, regardless of the legal status of the entity and the way in which it is financed.

Sickness funds, and the organisations involved in the management of the public social security system, fulfil an exclusively social function. That activity is based on the principle of solidarity and is entirely non-profit making.'

The issue of making or not making a profit is a different issue from the effective management of finances and services though.

As such, the principle of solidarity (i.e. that fact that the services available to a person under the NHS bear no relationship to the amount (if any) contributed by that person to the NHS by way of taxes or National Insurance contributions) and the fact that the body in question fulfils a purely social function is central to the question as to whether or not that body is an undertaking.

As such, whether this might involve the purchase of, say, a renal dialysis machine or the necessary computer software services required for the general purpose of helping to run the NHS is irrelevant if the purpose in both cases is to facilitate the overall objective of the NHS - the provision of free healthcare services to society as a whole."

But would this principle of "solidarity" not mean that there is a duty on the NHS to ensure that it spends money carefully. So as to maximise heathcare provision. -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763