Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] RE: [Maybe Spam] [suse-linux-uk-schools] Office of Fair Trading
At 11:43 25/02/04 +0000, you wrote:
On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 11:07, Steve Palmer wrote:
We got one too. If we don't answer it we can be teh summoned! @_@
Looks like they're deadly serious about it anyway.
If they were not serious, they wouldn't be doing a full investigation. It costs them a lot to do an investigation so they don't start it unless they are pretty sure there is a case to answer. The problem for MS is that its not just this country. Schools agreement works in more or less the same way in other countries so if it gets changed here it will also likely have to get changed elsewhere. It surprises me a bit that they don't simply change the agreement to say all computers running any Microsoft products. That would sort it out and make very little practical difference to their current revenue. There are only three reasons why they don't
1.) They believe that the OFT will find in their favour 2.) They are arrogant and think that even if the OFT find against them they will be able to tough it out with delays and other tactics until the problem goes away 3.) They really are paranoid about letting Linux in and would rather fight the OFT than lower the barriers even a small amount.
Maybe its a combination of all 3. I guess the only reason the OFT would back off is if in sending out letters to schools, they all say they have no interest in Linux at all and so MSSA is not a consideration in its use. OTOH if even a significant minority say we might have tried Linux but its not worth it because we are on MSSA.
The worry is that many schools don't know the implications of MSSA in that they have to pay a license fee annually for any pentium based PC even if its not running MS software. So they may be unaware that they can't use Linux without counting the Linux boxes in the annual total. Like I said, in some ways the monopoly is so entrenched it makes gathering evidence against it more difficult! eg a school might say yikes, if MSSA is declared void isn't this going to put my software costs up? I'd better say nowt.
I spoke to the IT manager of one major school today who moreorless said just that! Their view seemed be be that they had thousands of pounds worth of MS software very cheaply and wouldn't want to rock the boat. John Fact is we don't know what will happen if
MSSA is declared void but in the overall scheme of things competition usually forces prices down, it just might not immediately in a particular sector. I hope the OFT realise how complex and far-reaching this monopoly is.
If anyone would like to make these or any other comments the E-mail address of the investigating officer is edward.anderson@oft.gsi.gov.uk. Other contact details are
Mr E Anderson Principal Case Officer Media, Sports & Information Industries Office of Fair Trading Fleetbank House 2-6 Salisbury Square London EC4Y 8JX Tel: 020 7211 8343 Fax: 020 7211 8354
Regards, -- ian
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On Wed, 2004-03-10 at 16:02, j_low wrote:
eg a school might say yikes, if MSSA is declared void isn't this going to put my software costs up? I'd better say nowt.
I spoke to the IT manager of one major school today who moreorless said just that! Their view seemed be be that they had thousands of pounds worth of MS software very cheaply and wouldn't want to rock the boat.
John
Their view that they have something of a particular "worth" is perhaps a perception only. The perception is based on the fact that the software is sold to other individuals and organizations for a larger sum than the schools are required to pay. Rather than thinking of the software as having a value to the school, think of the value that the software being used by the school has to Microsoft. The Microsoft Schools Agreement is in existence because MS needs to appear to be giving good value to schools. It can't be seen to be ripping them off, especially with alternative systems becoming much more viable. If the MS Schools Agreement is (rightly in my opinion) deemed illegal in certain aspects, I do not believe that MS will rescind it from schools. Instead it will be forced to change the terms of the agreement such that a school won't have to include Apple Macs or a suite of Linux boxes in reckoning up their total fee payable to Microsoft. Seb James -- Educational Systems Hypercube Systems Ltd Providing Open Source ICT solutions for schools. Tel: 0845 458 0277 Web: www.hypercubesystems.co.uk Mob: 07900 958964 Email: seb@hypercubesystems.co.uk
On Wed, 2004-03-10 at 17:21, Seb James wrote:
On Wed, 2004-03-10 at 16:02, j_low wrote:
eg a school might say yikes, if MSSA is declared void isn't this going to put my software costs up? I'd better say nowt.
I spoke to the IT manager of one major school today who moreorless said just that! Their view seemed be be that they had thousands of pounds worth of MS software very cheaply and wouldn't want to rock the boat.
John
Their view that they have something of a particular "worth" is perhaps a perception only. The perception is based on the fact that the software is sold to other individuals and organizations for a larger sum than the schools are required to pay. Rather than thinking of the software as having a value to the school, think of the value that the software being used by the school has to Microsoft.
The Microsoft Schools Agreement is in existence because MS needs to appear to be giving good value to schools. It can't be seen to be ripping them off, especially with alternative systems becoming much more viable.
If the MS Schools Agreement is (rightly in my opinion) deemed illegal in certain aspects, I do not believe that MS will rescind it from schools. Instead it will be forced to change the terms of the agreement such that a school won't have to include Apple Macs or a suite of Linux boxes in reckoning up their total fee payable to Microsoft.
Interesting to speculate why they haven't just done this. How hard would
it be to issue a statement saying eligible machines include only those
that run *any* MS Software?
I would say there are only two possibilities
a) They can't be bothered
b) They really do want to shut out the competition
In either case they deserve to be heavily fined if found guilty. And in
the case of MS, heavily fined should mean billions rather than millions
though I can't see the OFT extracting the maximum 10% of UK turnover. I
think any fines from proprietary software vendors found guilty of unfair
trading should be channelled directly into FLOSS projects. That would be
a much better deterrent than a chicken-feed fine.
--
ian
participants (3)
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ian -
j_low -
Seb James