Open Souce Conference - a way forward...
Hi All, Please take this as a request for comment rather than my solid opinions. I also hope I have posted this in an appropriate place! Following the conference on Friday I was left with the distinct feeling that we are standing on the edge of a major breakthrough on the implementation of open source software in schools. The offer of this technology is computing that is: - low cost - sustainable - ubiquitious - customisable We need to make sure that the enthusiasm is focussed now, for though we are all convinced of the inevitability of open source solutions, the time scale is determined by those of us who are implementing it. In particular, if the first wave of schools adopting open source does not do so by September 2003, then we will be set back by a whole year. Suggestions: that invitations are put out to get involved with the first wave - this should include: * schools - the early implementers * schools interested but not ready to implement yet * providers and developers * any other interested parties * we share information and thoughts through a Wiki thus allowing any one to get involved * the AFFS is invited to be the front organisation for this group (www.affs.org.uk) * contact is made with organisations in other countries working on similar lines * we look for a major publicity drive in September by when a number of UK schools should be runnning large scale open source solutions. ===== rgds, Richard Rothwell -------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want to go to war." __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer
This wisdom was penned by Richard Rothwell
Suggestions: that invitations are put out to get involved with the first wave - this should include: * schools - the early implementers * schools interested but not ready to implement yet * providers and developers * any other interested parties * we share information and thoughts through a Wiki thus allowing any one to get involved * the AFFS is invited to be the front organisation for this group (www.affs.org.uk) * contact is made with organisations in other countries working on similar lines * we look for a major publicity drive in September by when a number of UK schools should be runnning large scale open source solutions.
Additionally, I think there needs to be a source of free human resource to assist with installation/migration etc. This needs to be a network of sysadmins across the UK able to offer some time to individual schools or LEAs. K12LTSP is an obvious source of organisations who have already implimented Open Source but also each academic region in France seems to have done something in this direction (it is part of French Govt. Policy to use Open Source unless closed can be justified). I know LinuxAnjou LUG have just done a weekend with press coverage and all! Count me in! -- Best wishes, Derek
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Harding"
This wisdom was penned by Richard Rothwell
--- snip ---
Suggestions: that invitations are put out to get involved with the first wave - this should include: * schools - the early implementers * schools interested but not ready to implement yet * providers and developers * any other interested parties * we share information and thoughts through a Wiki thus allowing any one to get involved * the AFFS is invited to be the front organisation for this group (www.affs.org.uk) * contact is made with organisations in other countries working on similar lines * we look for a major publicity drive in September by when a number of UK schools should be runnning large scale open source solutions.
I agree with this idea, (below on free human resources) I live in torbay, and would be willing to help down this end. We also need to get more computers into schools perhaps by recycling old computers, from companies who would otherwise skip them. this would benefit the environment, a school and even the company as they would be doing their bit. Paul
Additionally, I think there needs to be a source of free human resource to assist with installation/migration etc. This needs to be a network of sysadmins across the UK able to offer some time to individual schools or LEAs.
K12LTSP is an obvious source of organisations who have already implimented Open Source but also each academic region in France seems to have done something in this direction (it is part of French Govt. Policy to use Open Source unless closed can be justified). I know LinuxAnjou LUG have just done a weekend with press coverage and all!
Count me in!
-- Best wishes, Derek
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On Mon, 2003-04-07 at 23:06, Richard Rothwell wrote:
* we look for a major publicity drive in September by when a number of UK schools should be runnning large scale open source solutions.
(Several are now!) There are a number of issues related to marketing open source solutions to schools and marketing is as important as the technical stuff - in fact more important if the stuff is to broaden its appeal. 1. Relative effectiveness of individual enthusiasts and commercial companies 2. Lead in time - the financial new year starts now not in September 3. Risk and innovation - target schools who are innovators rather than risk averse. 4. Understanding the way schools are funded and how to use this positively. Probably some others too. While I believe that there is no great harm in doing whatever we can in the short term, I think we should at least consider a collective marketing strategy and we could work on this using the Wiki and at the next conference. Some practical things that could help: 1. Drum up support for the next conference. I posted a brief report on the uk.education.schools-it group and invited people who didn't know about it and were interested in the next conference to give me their E-mails. If everyone starts publicising through their networks and contacts it should not be difficult to double the size of the next conference. 2. Support companies who promote open source (ok I declare a vested interest!) Consider this. If you are in a school or business and you need say a data projector and buy it from an OSS company it contributes to that company's well-being making it better able to support open source. If the value for money checks work out why give the business to those who make no effort with OSS? If you also tell companies that don't support OSS that all other things being equal you will buy from OSS companies it provides commercial pressure on them to take part. Perhaps we should draw up an on-line list of companies supporting OSS and the types of products they supply. One of the problems is knowing what each company can supply and support. 3. We need some focussed lobbying and political strategy. I currently have the OFT investigating MS schools agreement and I have enlisted an MP and former minister to help reinforce the case. While MS schools agreement requires every Pentium to pay annual licenses to MS whether or not it runs any MS software its going to be difficult to add some extra low cost Linux thin clients to a network in a school operating schools agreement. Ok there are other things but 3 is enough for the time being! Regards, -- Ian
On Tuesday 08 Apr 2003 8:51 am, ian wrote: [snip]
3. We need some focussed lobbying and political strategy. I currently have the OFT investigating MS schools agreement and I have enlisted an MP and former minister to help reinforce the case. While MS schools agreement requires every Pentium to pay annual licenses to MS whether or not it runs any MS software its going to be difficult to add some extra low cost Linux thin clients to a network in a school operating schools agreement.
How many people have really looked into this issue of licensing *every* pentium PC? When we were looking at the beginning of this year to upgrade our group to XP we questioned this as we have a number of Linux PC's - PC's that were going to stay Linux. We too were originally told that we would have to license these too. When we pointed out that this would be a show-stopper they said that they'd look into it. After our suppliers checked internally and (I think) with MS, we were told that we would only have to license the PC's running a MS O/S (including a freshly installed WFW3.11 system). I just wanted to throw this into the pot to get people's opinions, partly because we still haven't signed up for anything yet and would appreciate other people's experiences and opinions.
Ok there are other things but 3 is enough for the time being!
Regards,
-- Gary Stainburn This email does not contain private or confidential material as it may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown and undisclosed purposes - Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000
On Tue, 2003-04-08 at 10:55, Gary Stainburn wrote:
On Tuesday 08 Apr 2003 8:51 am, ian wrote: [snip]
3. We need some focussed lobbying and political strategy. I currently have the OFT investigating MS schools agreement and I have enlisted an MP and former minister to help reinforce the case. While MS schools agreement requires every Pentium to pay annual licenses to MS whether or not it runs any MS software its going to be difficult to add some extra low cost Linux thin clients to a network in a school operating schools agreement.
How many people have really looked into this issue of licensing *every* pentium PC?
When we were looking at the beginning of this year to upgrade our group to XP we questioned this as we have a number of Linux PC's - PC's that were going to stay Linux. We too were originally told that we would have to license these too. When we pointed out that this would be a show-stopper they said that they'd look into it.
After our suppliers checked internally and (I think) with MS, we were told that we would only have to license the PC's running a MS O/S (including a freshly installed WFW3.11 system).
Its really about what it says in the licensing agreement. It says *any* Pentium computer. Now if you get it in writing from MS that certain machines are exempt, fine, but if you got into a legal wrangle what if they say a) Our reseller was not authorised to do this or b) We know nothing... Ok, probably unlikely but then so is getting done for deliberate piracy. Seems to me much better to get a definitive ruling that will stand up in court given how keen MS are to take their customers to court. If MS are saying that MS Schools agreement does not apply to Pentium machines running Linux they need to explicitly say so in their licensing agreements.
I just wanted to throw this into the pot to get people's opinions, partly because we still haven't signed up for anything yet and would appreciate other people's experiences and opinions.
In the end its down to personal decision making but as it stands I wouldn't touch MS agreement with the proverbial barge pole. Its tie in on a grand scale.If they officially say that it doesn't apply to non-MS machines I think it will be a good way to go because you can have a strategy of gradually reducing the number of machines running MS software and therefore reduce licensing costs. Such a policy will of course affect other MS corporate agreements and reduce their income so I doubt they will like it as a universal principle. Regards, -- Ian
Hi all, I've been lurking on this list for a while now, ..just thought it was about time I introduced myself.. I'm the Technical Director at the educational software provider 'New Media' (http://www.new-media.co.uk/). Any science teachers on this list may be aware of products such as 'Chemistry Set 2000' and 'Multimedia Science School', which are essentially multimedia teaching resources for science. I wont attempt to plug our products here (they are built for windows), you can check out our site for more information.. Anyway, I'm interested in bringing some of our experience of using technology to enhance learning to those using Open Source operating systems. As an OSS user, programmer, and advocate, it's something that I want New Media to become more involved in. Most of the software that we have produced over the years is designed for the classroom itself, to actually enhance the teaching experience. I appreciate that the current goals for people like yourselves are probably more focused on the system infrastructure itself (i.e, Exim/Sendmail/Postfix.., Squid, Samba, OpenLDAP etc), and so I'm also interested in developing software that may help to centralise the administration of those kinds of services. Perhaps over time we can glue together enough existing free software to build a competitive RM style system.. So, I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like us to be a part of this, and would love to hear suggestions for ways in which we could get started.. Currently I'm working on a version of one of our science teaching tools 'Rates Of Reaction' that I aim to make freely available (as in speech), as a kind of experiment to see how many people can make use of such a resource. But perhaps there is something more generically useful that I could be working on.. If anyone has any ideas, then feel free to get in touch. Cheers, On Mon, 2003-04-07 at 23:06, Richard Rothwell wrote:
Hi All,
Please take this as a request for comment rather than my solid opinions. I also hope I have posted this in an appropriate place!
Following the conference on Friday I was left with the distinct feeling that we are standing on the edge of a major breakthrough on the implementation of open source software in schools. The offer of this technology is computing that is: - low cost - sustainable - ubiquitious - customisable We need to make sure that the enthusiasm is focussed now, for though we are all convinced of the inevitability of open source solutions, the time scale is determined by those of us who are implementing it. In particular, if the first wave of schools adopting open source does not do so by September 2003, then we will be set back by a whole year.
Suggestions: that invitations are put out to get involved with the first wave - this should include: * schools - the early implementers * schools interested but not ready to implement yet * providers and developers * any other interested parties * we share information and thoughts through a Wiki thus allowing any one to get involved * the AFFS is invited to be the front organisation for this group (www.affs.org.uk) * contact is made with organisations in other countries working on similar lines * we look for a major publicity drive in September by when a number of UK schools should be runnning large scale open source solutions.
===== rgds, Richard Rothwell -------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want to go to war."
__________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer
-- James Hurst mailto:james.hurst@new-media.co.uk
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 10:24:09AM +0100, James Hurst wrote:
Hi all,
I've been lurking on this list for a while now, ..just thought it was about time I introduced myself..
I'm the Technical Director at the educational software provider 'New Media' (http://www.new-media.co.uk/). Any science teachers on this list may be aware of products such as 'Chemistry Set 2000' and 'Multimedia Science School', which are essentially multimedia teaching resources for science. I wont attempt to plug our products here (they are built for windows), you can check out our site for more information..
Not only are they built for Windows, but some of them also require MSIE... I couldn't even get "the Heart" to work even though I have the shockwave plugin for Mozilla installed. -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763
Not only are they built for Windows, but some of them also require MSIE...
I couldn't even get "the Heart" to work even though I have the shockwave plugin for Mozilla installed.
The Heart tool which we gave away a shockwave version of during Science Year did work in Mozilla (it's all I ever use), but it was _very_ large, making usage for a lot of people quite difficult. Not only from a bandwidth point of view, but also a machine spec point of view. But let's not forget that the original tool took 4 months to develop and we gave it away! Whether it was tested properly (or at all) with Unix/X11/CrossOver is another question. Clearly, we have always focused on windows as the vast majority of people are using it. We have had less than 5 enquiries regarding Linux since I started working here in 1999 :( This is hopefully set to change, and so supporting Linux is something that I am pushing for all of the time. Please keep in mind though that these things cannot happen overnight. I have a degree of influence over what New Media is trying to achieve, but we are a large company.. If evidence can be generated regarding the amount of interest that commercial software for Linux may receive (or even part open, part closed), then the picture becomes very different. Currently, any time that I spend on Open Source tools is my own.. So I hope that you guys can be patient with me :) Just because New Media has only historically been involved with Windows, doesn't mean that this always needs to be the case.. -- James Hurst mailto:james.hurst@new-media.co.uk
Hi All I agree with Richard and am happy to be involved. Regards, Grahame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Grahame Leon-Smith, Chairman of Trustees Tel +44-1932-874066 Fax +44-1932-874068 FREE COMPUTERS FOR EDUCATION Registered Charity No. 1059116 PLEASE VISIT OUR WEB SITE AT < http://www.free-computers.org> and for further information just send a blank email to: < mailto:free-computers-news-subscribe@yahoogroups.com> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: Richard Rothwell [mailto:raroth42@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 07 April 2003 23:07 To: suse-linux-uk-schools@suse.com Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Open Souce Conference - a way forward... Hi All, Please take this as a request for comment rather than my solid opinions. I also hope I have posted this in an appropriate place! Following the conference on Friday I was left with the distinct feeling that we are standing on the edge of a major breakthrough on the implementation of open source software in schools. The offer of this technology is computing that is: - low cost - sustainable - ubiquitious - customisable We need to make sure that the enthusiasm is focussed now, for though we are all convinced of the inevitability of open source solutions, the time scale is determined by those of us who are implementing it. In particular, if the first wave of schools adopting open source does not do so by September 2003, then we will be set back by a whole year. Suggestions: that invitations are put out to get involved with the first wave - this should include: * schools - the early implementers * schools interested but not ready to implement yet * providers and developers * any other interested parties * we share information and thoughts through a Wiki thus allowing any one to get involved * the AFFS is invited to be the front organisation for this group (www.affs.org.uk) * contact is made with organisations in other countries working on similar lines * we look for a major publicity drive in September by when a number of UK schools should be runnning large scale open source solutions. ===== rgds, Richard Rothwell -------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want to go to war." __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help@suse.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 21/01/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 21/01/2003
Dear All, I would also like to be involved. A couple of observations: 1) There are "parallel" initiatives which support the use of Open Source in schools, and we need to make a conscious choice about contributing to them, or developing something new. Two such initiatives I've passed to James are: http://linuxshop.ru/linuxbegin/win-lin-soft-en/ A comprehensive table of equivalents / replacements / analogs of Windows software in Linux. http://www.k12ltsp.org/wiki/ The K12LTSP Wiki - Recently created to fill the need for a repository of links and HOWTOs for implementing the LTSP distribution for schools 2) Conversely, what are our unique needs that aren't supported by other initiatives? For examples: What to do about SIMS? How to promote Open Source in LEAs? (as if Martin Williams' work wasn't enough!) What about Becta? I would like to thank SuSe for hosting this forum, and hope that it's willing to tolerate non-SuSe Open Source users like myself! Regards, John Ingleby ************ CoroNet Information Systems Ltd. Kings Langley, UK On Mon, 2003-04-07 at 23:06, Richard Rothwell wrote:
Hi All,
Please take this as a request for comment rather than my solid opinions. I also hope I have posted this in an appropriate place!
Following the conference on Friday I was left with the distinct feeling that we are standing on the edge of a major breakthrough on the implementation of open source software in schools. The offer of this technology is computing that is: - low cost - sustainable - ubiquitious - customisable We need to make sure that the enthusiasm is focussed now, for though we are all convinced of the inevitability of open source solutions, the time scale is determined by those of us who are implementing it. In particular, if the first wave of schools adopting open source does not do so by September 2003, then we will be set back by a whole year.
Suggestions: that invitations are put out to get involved with the first wave - this should include: * schools - the early implementers * schools interested but not ready to implement yet * providers and developers * any other interested parties * we share information and thoughts through a Wiki thus allowing any one to get involved * the AFFS is invited to be the front organisation for this group (www.affs.org.uk) * contact is made with organisations in other countries working on similar lines * we look for a major publicity drive in September by when a number of UK schools should be runnning large scale open source solutions.
===== rgds, Richard Rothwell -------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want to go to war."
__________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help@suse.com
We are using Squid/2.3.STABLE4-hno.CVS on SuSE 7.2 pro KDE2 desktop, with RM as our upstream proxy. This works very well. but... We want to do the following 1) upgrade Squid AND use MAC addresses. We've downloaded the latest stable release and followed all the instructions ( ./configure --enable-arp-acl etc.) all (appears) to work fine but arp does not work and Squid reports that is still 2.3 ! If it's an easier option, is it possible to configure the release that came with SuSE to work with MAC addresses? - If so, how? 2) We also want to move our Proxy server to a remote location and decided that VNC would be good for administration. We got the dreaded grey screen (certain that is has worked without problems in earlier versions of SuSE) anyway we have poured over the net and have finally managed to open a session but nothing runs without crashing. We have also tried downloading RPMs of VNC and like squid they do not appear to install. We've spent ages looking at the net regarding both of these problems but without joy. James, my technician is almost in tears and has decided to install LINUX over his beloved WIN2000 server at home so that he can get to the bottom of this! I'm sure that we're missing an obvious step or two, any ideas as to which obvious box we haven't ticked? Thanks Adrian Wells
We are using Squid/2.3.STABLE4-hno.CVS on SuSE 7.2 pro KDE2 desktop, with RM as our upstream proxy. This works very well. but... We want to do the following 1) upgrade Squid AND use MAC addresses. We've downloaded the latest stable release and followed all the instructions ( ./configure --enable-arp-acl etc.) all (appears) to work fine but arp does not work and Squid reports that is still 2.3 ! If it's an easier option, is it possible to configure the release that came with SuSE to work with MAC addresses? - If so, how? 2) We also want to move our Proxy server to a remote location and decided that VNC would be good for administration. We got the dreaded grey screen (certain that is has worked without problems in earlier versions of SuSE) anyway we have poured over the net and have finally managed to open a session but nothing runs without crashing. We have also tried downloading RPMs of VNC and like squid they do not appear to install. We've spent ages looking at the net regarding both of these problems but without joy. James, my technician is almost in tears and has decided to install LINUX over his beloved WIN2000 server at home so that he can get to the bottom of this! I'm sure that we're missing an obvious step or two, any ideas as to which obvious box we haven't ticked? Thanks Adrian Wells
Hi All,
Please take this as a request for comment rather than my solid opinions. I also hope I have posted this in an appropriate place!
Following the conference on Friday I was left with the distinct feeling that we are standing on the edge of a major breakthrough on the implementation of open source software in schools. The offer of this technology is computing that is: - low cost - sustainable - ubiquitious - customisable We need to make sure that the enthusiasm is focussed now, for though we are all convinced of the inevitability of open source solutions, the time scale is determined by those of us who are implementing it. In particular, if the first wave of schools adopting open source does not do so by September 2003, then we will be set back by a whole year.
Suggestions: that invitations are put out to get involved with the first wave - this should include: * schools - the early implementers * schools interested but not ready to implement yet * providers and developers * any other interested parties * we share information and thoughts through a Wiki thus allowing any one to get involved * the AFFS is invited to be the front organisation for this group (www.affs.org.uk) * contact is made with organisations in other countries working on similar lines * we look for a major publicity drive in September by when a number of UK schools should be runnning large scale open source solutions.
===== rgds, Richard Rothwell -------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy,
I agree here in torbay, school bugets are being slashed, `and they have to
save money it would be nice if they could save money on windows licences
rather than making staff redundant.
It's just getting the message through that is going to be the problem,
schools need to know that there are people out there who can help and
support open source apps.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Rothwell"
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Finally, I can post this. Written yesterday. Hopefully not obsolete.
=?iso-8859-1?q?Richard=20Rothwell?=
Following the conference on Friday I was left with the distinct feeling that we are standing on the edge of a major breakthrough on the implementation of open source software in schools. [...]
I hope that we are! I hope it's not a false dawn, but then I'm reassured by the relatively large gathering of people with very strong ideas and motivations to make it work.
* we share information and thoughts through a Wiki thus allowing any one to get involved
I'll make sure that this is available ASAP. I've chased it up and been told that it's installed, just being tested. (There are few things more annoying than spending time editing a wiki page only to have it fail in some niche case.)
* the AFFS is invited to be the front organisation for this group (www.affs.org.uk)
I would love this to happen. If you tell us specific things that you want us to do (especially co-ordination and storing resources for you) then I will tell you when we can get it done. Depending on what happens at the annual meeting next month, we may have some seed funding to put in.
* contact is made with organisations in other countries working on similar lines
AFFS has informal links with some, but more lines of communication are always good.
* we look for a major publicity drive in September by when a number of UK schools should be runnning large scale open source solutions.
OK. An obvious thing that could be done today is to sketch out timescale ideas, projects that UK education needs and adverts that you think AFFS should try to place in the developer media to attract more developers to projects that we need. The wiki will help with these and I'll try to give a fuller list of ideas to James for the CD. Another useful idea might be a "ask for an advocate" system, where people can tell us who to contact at a particular place and then volunteers from that area who know about free software in education can offer to go along and meet them to explain the issues, drawing on the resources we've made if appropriate. Finally, the outcome can be tracked and advocates can build histories of their successes. Along with the lists of who's doing what, we can start to get a complete picture of UK education's free software use. -- MJR http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ IM: slef@jabber.at This is my home web site. This for Jabber Messaging. How's my writing? Let me know via any of my contact details.
participants (11)
-
adrian.wells -
Derek Harding -
Gary Stainburn -
Grahame Leon-Smith＠FreeComputers -
ian -
James Hurst -
John Ingleby -
Mark Evans -
MJ Ray -
Paul Sutton -
Richard Rothwell