[opensuse-edu] Suse in the class room

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[opensuse-edu] Developers, and not...

Jpd

14 Jul 2008 14 Jul '08

23:23

One problem I see is that how do you manage a room full of suse boxes? Users management are pretty sorted through AD support. Patching through auto update seemed ok. But how do you install software to rooms of pcs with out login into each one? How do you do things like group polices for access to applications? Things like managing the start menu etc. For mac there the xserver which does all this, and for windows you can get apps. What is there for Linux? Sun has some thing for it's sun rays and java desktop. But were using suse with the edu software. Surely some one else must have run into this problem? Or have you all got armies of support staff? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

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CyberOrg

15 Jul 15 Jul

04:18

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 4:53 AM, Jpd wrote:

...

One problem I see is that how do you manage a room full of suse boxes?

Users management are pretty sorted through AD support.

Patching through auto update seemed ok.

But how do you install software to rooms of pcs with out login into each one?

How do you do things like group polices for access to applications?

Things like managing the start menu etc.

For mac there the xserver which does all this, and for windows you can get apps.

What is there for Linux?

Use KIWI-LTSP, you will have to manage just one server, applications installed on the server would show up on every client. See this for profile lockdowns http://opseast.wordpress.com/2007/06/12/sledgnome-desktop-lockdown/ Cheers -J -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

Richard Bos

08:08

Op Tuesday 15 July 2008 06:18:41 schreef CyberOrg:

...

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 4:53 AM, Jpd wrote:

...
One problem I see is that how do you manage a room full of suse boxes?

Users management are pretty sorted through AD support.

Patching through auto update seemed ok.

But how do you install software to rooms of pcs with out login into each one?

How do you do things like group polices for access to applications?

Things like managing the start menu etc.

For mac there the xserver which does all this, and for windows you can get apps.

What is there for Linux?

Use KIWI-LTSP, you will have to manage just one server, applications installed on the server would show up on every client.

Isn't this depending on the need for applications that need audio and video? But indeed kiwi-ltsp is an excellent platform to do all the things requested above. How well does kiwi-ltsp perform with audio and video applications? Is it already possible to run such applications for example locally on the client?

...

See this for profile lockdowns http://opseast.wordpress.com/2007/06/12/sledgnome-desktop-lockdown/

For kde there is kiosk. -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

CyberOrg

08:16

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Richard Bos wrote:

...

How well does kiwi-ltsp perform with audio and video applications? Is it already possible to run such applications for example locally on the client?

Audio, local usb disks, printers work very well, video is bit laggy as expected, but can be remedied to some extent by using LDM_DIRECTX, if security is not of concern. See: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP Cheers -J -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

CyberOrg

08:32

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:46 PM, CyberOrg wrote:

...

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Richard Bos wrote:

...
How well does kiwi-ltsp perform with audio and video applications? Is it already possible to run such applications for example locally on the client?

Audio, local usb disks, printers work very well, video is bit laggy as expected, but can be remedied to some extent by using LDM_DIRECTX, if security is not of concern.

See: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP

BTW, KIWI-LTSP and iTalc make a great combination for administering classroom, they are both integrated in openSUSE-EDU distribution :) Cheers -J -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

Jpd

09:54

On 15 Jul 2008, at 09:32, CyberOrg wrote:

...

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:46 PM, CyberOrg wrote:

...
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Richard Bos wrote:

...
How well does kiwi-ltsp perform with audio and video applications? Is it already possible to run such applications for example locally on the client?

Audio, local usb disks, printers work very well, video is bit laggy as expected, but can be remedied to some extent by using LDM_DIRECTX, if security is not of concern.

See: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP

BTW, KIWI-LTSP and iTalc make a great combination for administering classroom, they are both integrated in openSUSE-EDU distribution :)

Cheers

-J -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

I have seen ltsp but am not sure if it's suiteable for our environment. How easily can you run everything from the local host? Does software installed on the server get "pushed" to the clients so they can be used? I ask because the clients have more ram and CPU than our server and we are mainly doing 3D and video. I have seen kiosk but could not work out if it only did local config and not for a network. Would perfere to stay on kde as that had worked better with the students. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

CyberOrg

09:59

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:24 PM, Jpd wrote:

...

...
I have seen ltsp but am not sure if it's suiteable for our environment.

How easily can you run everything from the local host?

Devices? most work out of box without any configuration.

...

Does software installed on the server get "pushed" to the clients so they can be used?

Yes, you can try it out, takes just a few seconds to get it running after installing prebuild image via 1-click. Follow the instructions on the wiki.

...

I ask because the clients have more ram and CPU than our server and we are mainly doing 3D and video.

Video and 3D rules out LTSP, you can however build custom image that network boots and uses desktop hardware normally using KIWI. Cheers -J -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

Lars Vogdt

16:08

Hi On Dienstag 15 Juli 2008 11:54:39 Jpd wrote:

...

...
...
...
How well does kiwi-ltsp perform with audio and video applications? Is it already possible to run such applications for example locally on the client?

FYI: I'm still running LTSP 4.2 on openSUSE 10.2 with 30-40 Clients on a Dual-Xeon 3,2 GHz with 4 GB RAM and a 100MBit/s network without problems. BUT: sound and especially 3D effects (and video) is something you like to do directly on powerful clients. And even if you've enough powerful hardware on the client side, you should use this power directly ;-)

...

How easily can you run everything from the local host?

You can add some local applications in the boot image, but this would expand the boot time as the whole image must be transfered over the network. <= having the "simple" LTSP solution in mind.

...

Does software installed on the server get "pushed" to the clients so they can be used?

I ask because the clients have more ram and CPU than our server and we are mainly doing 3D and video.

^^ looks like you want to run linux native on the client side.

...

I have seen kiosk but could not work out if it only did local config and not for a network.

Would perfere to stay on kde as that had worked better with the students.

Looks like the kiosktool is one of the tools you like to have a look at ;-) The settings can be saved on a network storage - so every client has to be "touched" only once so he knows where to get his settings from. I like to give a short summary about the possibilities from my point of view: Proposal 1) Mounting directories via NFS from a server: /usr /opt /etc (and some more, but this should be enough) can be mounted read only from a server on each client. Some other directories like /var need to stay on the client or need to be mounted rw from a client. But the files in this directories are normally not necessary for your ideas) In the end, you can configure your server (which for example can be the teachers client) as you want - even change the settings of the menu entries or (even funnier) just run a "chown -x <application>" to prevent your users on the other workstations starting <application> completely. Proposal 2) Using kiosktool openSUSE Education still has a package "kiosktool-edu-settings" containing two different profiles for KDE. Please ask aochs@gmx.de for details. Proposal 3) Use autoyast See http://www.suse.de/~ug/ for details. But this currently just covers the automatic installation and configuration - not updates or new packages. Proposal 4) Use cfengine or ZenWorks cfengine or ZenWorks allows to configure each client from a central place. Depending on your needs and clients, this could be a solution if you've a huge amount of different clients. Proposal 5) Use a combination of the proposals above including some scripts. - You can cover your "desktop settings" with kiosktool. - You can install a client "from scratch" containing ~2 GB software and personal settings in ~20min. - You can install additional software and/or change configuration settings for each client using simple bash scripts which can be installed via RPM during autoinstallation. These scripts "ask" the LDAP server (or just look into a directory on your server) for other scripts and execute them as root. (Have a look at my answer to Mike's mail for some details). /me likes 5 -as this covers all your needs without increasing expenses. But it needs some linux knowledge (at least for bash). And now a bit advertisement: the OpenSchoolServer in version 2.6.1 might help you in this area -as it already contains: - a free Imaging system for Windows (and even Linux) workstations - Autoinstallation with different profiles (Linux-Workstation (dualboot is possible), Terminalserver (currently not LTSP - work in progress), or X-Client) - including the scripts I mentioned in Proposal 5. - a LDAP based user and classroom management, including classroom mode, internet access rules (and filtering), and many more - Moodle, Joomla and OpenExchange included and already conecting to the LDAP server, so every user (student, teacher, admin, ...) who's known by the server can login - single sign in for windows workstations (for windows-, admin- and internet login) - ... Feel free to test it ;-) With kind regards, Lars -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

Jpd

21:06

On 15 Jul 2008, at 17:08, Lars Vogdt wrote:

...

Hi

On Dienstag 15 Juli 2008 11:54:39 Jpd wrote:

...
...
...
...
How well does kiwi-ltsp perform with audio and video applications? Is it already possible to run such applications for example locally on the client?

FYI: I'm still running LTSP 4.2 on openSUSE 10.2 with 30-40 Clients on a Dual-Xeon 3,2 GHz with 4 GB RAM and a 100MBit/s network without problems.

Sounds promising. We have only got a dual 2.8Ghz with 2Gb on 100mbit.

...

BUT: sound and especially 3D effects (and video) is something you like to do directly on powerful clients. And even if you've enough powerful hardware on the client side, you should use this power directly ;-)

Which is why I did not look at Ltsp in the first place.

...

...
How easily can you run everything from the local host?

You can add some local applications in the boot image, but this would expand the boot time as the whole image must be transfered over the network. <= having the "simple" LTSP solution in mind.

Again these are not going to be thin clients. End machines are between P4>=2.8 or Pentum dual cores. There all going to be dual boot with XP due to being shared resources.

...

...
Does software installed on the server get "pushed" to the clients so they can be used?

I ask because the clients have more ram and CPU than our server and we are mainly doing 3D and video.

^^ looks like you want to run linux native on the client side.

...
I have seen kiosk but could not work out if it only did local config and not for a network.

Would perfere to stay on kde as that had worked better with the students.

Looks like the kiosktool is one of the tools you like to have a look at ;-) The settings can be saved on a network storage - so every client has to be "touched" only once so he knows where to get his settings from.

I was hoping for a smarter solution to this. But this will do.

...

I like to give a short summary about the possibilities from my point of view:

Proposal 1) Mounting directories via NFS from a server: /usr /opt /etc (and some more, but this should be enough) can be mounted read only from a server on each client. Some other directories like /var need to stay on the client or need to be mounted rw from a client. But the files in this directories are normally not necessary for your ideas)

In the end, you can configure your server (which for example can be the teachers client) as you want - even change the settings of the menu entries or (even funnier) just run a "chown -x <application>" to prevent your users on the other workstations starting <application> completely.

Again hassel I was hoping to dodge :(

...

Proposal 2) Using kiosktool openSUSE Education still has a package "kiosktool-edu-settings" containing two different profiles for KDE. Please ask aochs@gmx.de for details.

Will do

...

Proposal 3) Use autoyast See http://www.suse.de/~ug/ for details. But this currently just covers the automatic installation and configuration - not updates or new packages.

So not really an option

...

Proposal 4) Use cfengine or ZenWorks

cfengine or ZenWorks allows to configure each client from a central place. Depending on your needs and clients, this could be a solution if you've a huge amount of different clients.

Zenworks does not seem to work on opensuse Cfengine seems close but I was hoping for a "shrinked wraped" option

...

Proposal 5) Use a combination of the proposals above including some scripts.

- You can cover your "desktop settings" with kiosktool. - You can install a client "from scratch" containing ~2 GB software and personal settings in ~20min. - You can install additional software and/or change configuration settings for each client using simple bash scripts which can be installed via RPM during autoinstallation. These scripts "ask" the LDAP server (or just look into a directory on your server) for other scripts and execute them as root. (Have a look at my answer to Mike's mail for some details).

/me likes 5 -as this covers all your needs without increasing expenses. But it needs some linux knowledge (at least for bash).

If only I had the time... I could probably do this but I don't get paided to do this, just to keep my job.

...

And now a bit advertisement: the OpenSchoolServer in version 2.6.1 might help you in this area -as it already contains: - a free Imaging system for Windows (and even Linux) workstations - Autoinstallation with different profiles (Linux-Workstation (dualboot is possible), Terminalserver (currently not LTSP - work in progress), or X-Client) - including the scripts I mentioned in Proposal 5. - a LDAP based user and classroom management, including classroom mode, internet access rules (and filtering), and many more - Moodle, Joomla and OpenExchange included and already conecting to the LDAP server, so every user (student, teacher, admin, ...) who's known by the server can login - single sign in for windows workstations (for windows-, admin- and internet login) - ...

Feel free to test it ;-)

Again massive over kill! All I was is a way to simple install and maintain rooms of suse pcs with the least amount of effort as I am not the IT support.

...

With kind regards, Lars

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

James Tremblay aka SLEducator

16 Jul 16 Jul

11:47

...

On 15 Jul 2008, at 17:08, Lars Vogdt wrote:

...
Hi

On Dienstag 15 Juli 2008 11:54:39 Jpd wrote:

...
...
...
...
How well does kiwi-ltsp perform with audio and video applications? Is it already possible to run such applications for example locally on the client?

FYI: I'm still running LTSP 4.2 on openSUSE 10.2 with 30-40 Clients on a Dual-Xeon 3,2 GHz with 4 GB RAM and a 100MBit/s network without problems.

Sounds promising.

We have only got a dual 2.8Ghz with 2Gb on 100mbit.

...
BUT: sound and especially 3D effects (and video) is something you like to do directly on powerful clients. And even if you've enough powerful hardware on the client side, you should use this power directly ;-)

Which is why I did not look at Ltsp in the first place.

...
...
How easily can you run everything from the local host?

You can add some local applications in the boot image, but this would expand the boot time as the whole image must be transfered over the network. <= having the "simple" LTSP solution in mind.

Again these are not going to be thin clients.

End machines are between P4>=2.8 or Pentum dual cores.

There all going to be dual boot with XP due to being shared resources.

...
...
Does software installed on the server get "pushed" to the clients so they can be used?

I ask because the clients have more ram and CPU than our server and we are mainly doing 3D and video.

^^ looks like you want to run linux native on the client side.

...
I have seen kiosk but could not work out if it only did local config and not for a network.

Would perfere to stay on kde as that had worked better with the students.

Looks like the kiosktool is one of the tools you like to have a look at ;-) The settings can be saved on a network storage - so every client has to be "touched" only once so he knows where to get his settings from.

I was hoping for a smarter solution to this. But this will do.

...
I like to give a short summary about the possibilities from my point of view:

Proposal 1) Mounting directories via NFS from a server: /usr /opt /etc (and some more, but this should be enough) can be mounted read only from a server on each client. Some other directories like /var need to stay on the client or need to be mounted rw from a client. But the files in this directories are normally not necessary for your ideas)

In the end, you can configure your server (which for example can be the teachers client) as you want - even change the settings of the menu entries or (even funnier) just run a "chown -x <application>" to prevent your users on the other workstations starting <application> completely.

Again hassel I was hoping to dodge :(

...
Proposal 2) Using kiosktool openSUSE Education still has a package "kiosktool-edu-settings" containing two different profiles for KDE. Please ask aochs@gmx.de for details.

Will do

...
Proposal 3) Use autoyast See http://www.suse.de/~ug/ for details. But this currently just covers the automatic installation and configuration - not updates or new packages.

So not really an option

...
Proposal 4) Use cfengine or ZenWorks

cfengine or ZenWorks allows to configure each client from a central place. Depending on your needs and clients, this could be a solution if you've a huge amount of different clients.

Zenworks does not seem to work on opensuse

Cfengine seems close but I was hoping for a "shrinked wraped" option

...
Proposal 5) Use a combination of the proposals above including some scripts.

- You can cover your "desktop settings" with kiosktool. - You can install a client "from scratch" containing ~2 GB software and personal settings in ~20min. - You can install additional software and/or change configuration settings for each client using simple bash scripts which can be installed via RPM during autoinstallation. These scripts "ask" the LDAP server (or just look into a directory on your server) for other scripts and execute them as root. (Have a look at my answer to Mike's mail for some details).

/me likes 5 -as this covers all your needs without increasing expenses. But it needs some linux knowledge (at least for bash).

If only I had the time...

I could probably do this but I don't get paided to do this, just to keep my job.

...
And now a bit advertisement: the OpenSchoolServer in version 2.6.1 might help you in this area -as it already contains: - a free Imaging system for Windows (and even Linux) workstations - Autoinstallation with different profiles (Linux-Workstation (dualboot is possible), Terminalserver (currently not LTSP - work in progress), or X-Client) - including the scripts I mentioned in Proposal 5. - a LDAP based user and classroom management, including classroom mode, internet access rules (and filtering), and many more - Moodle, Joomla and OpenExchange included and already conecting to the LDAP server, so every user (student, teacher, admin, ...) who's known by the server can login - single sign in for windows workstations (for windows-, admin- and internet login) - ...

Feel free to test it ;-)

Again massive over kill!

All I was is a way to simple install and maintain rooms of suse pcs with the least amount of effort as I am not the IT support.

...
With kind regards, Lars

Hello. I have looked at several ways to ease classroom software installation. The most effective way is to share\mount server directories as Lars mentioned. Maintenance is actually easier than windows profile management because

Jpd wrote: the kiosktool is graphical i.e. you actually manage a desktop not check boxes and it works on existing users jsut like a windows policy. It's sort of JAVA like, install once run anywhere. Remember this is linux so reinstalling clients is rare and user directories such as /home/user/.gimp, can be renamed or deleted to fix\troubleshoot a users problems. There is no need to reconfigure the system registry. In the end, you will go to the server install the new software then adjust the kiosk "profile" for the students with new launchers and all is done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

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CyberOrg
James Tremblay aka SLEducator
Jpd
Lars Vogdt
Richard Bos