Meationed a while ago about a project my partner and I are working on called Karoshi. More information can be found at www.karoshi.org.uk We are coming up to version 2.0 for those that are interested. A brief explanation would be its a 'point and click' Linux server setup, designed for the least technical minded people. Jo
--- linuxgirlie
Meationed a while ago about a project my partner and I are working on called Karoshi. More information can be found at www.karoshi.org.uk We are coming up to version 2.0 for those that are interested.
Interesting idea, although it does make me chuckle to think of the overhead and need of using X on a server brings. You really shouldn't need X on a server, and if you do (for dedicated things like apache/squid, etc) then you're doing something wrong. Of course, isn't this why {web,user}min was developed for this non-clued? ;) Whilst that also has several things wrong with it, at least the only thing that requires is apache and a web-browser at the local end. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net "<shrug> We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Thomas Adam wrote:
--- linuxgirlie
wrote: Meationed a while ago about a project my partner and I are working on called Karoshi. More information can be found at www.karoshi.org.uk We are coming up to version 2.0 for those that are interested.
Interesting idea, although it does make me chuckle to think of the overhead and need of using X on a server brings. You really shouldn't need X on a server, and if you do (for dedicated things like apache/squid, etc) then you're doing something wrong.
Maybe for you, Thomas. The reality is that most Linux newbies are scared by a CLI, and can take time to get used to it. Using a GUI in the mean time is a good way to start getting used to a new OS. It is also friendlier for those who are used to accessing their servers (perhaps only a single other server for some schools) from the console attached to the system. With modern hardware, the overhead of running an X server is rarely an issue, in terms of memory usage. OK, there may be issues with security on unpatched systems, but that's the same with any networking software that isn't kept up to date. If the X server isn't being interacted with, then it should not place any load on the CPU. The Addison Linux people showed a server based on Debian (IIRC) at BETT that had a GUI - a nice shortcut to the smb.conf file that was then opened in Kate. This made it easy to add new shares to the server - almost as easy as the equivalent process under Windows. Webmin is certainly a competent alternative for remote adminstration though, but management from anything other than the localhost isn't always appropriate in some cash-strapped environments. Whilst I am quite happy to work on my servers from the "comfort" of my office via SSH, providing GUI tools lowers the entry barrier for schools considering adopting Linux, which can only be a good thing. Tony
--- Tony Whitmore
With modern hardware, the overhead of running an X server is rarely an issue, in terms of memory usage. OK, there may be issues with security on unpatched systems, but that's the same with any networking software that isn't kept up to date. If the X server isn't being interacted with,
then it should not place any load on the CPU.
Perhaps, perhaps. :) But the memory it still takes up is never released. But does it have to be X? There have been attempts to make the console more managable. YAST does this to an extent (albeit poorly at times, for some things). There used to be linuxconf, which was an amalgum of various things -- an all-in-one bundle for ease of administration, but it never really worked out.... I suppose the idea of using X is nothing new on a server. RH have been doing it for years..... -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net "<shrug> We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
The thing is we are designing this project with schools that are using RM and Microsoft systems. Now if both those systems ran there servers in console mode, then we would be aiming in the wrong direction. But seeing as they (esp. RM) are set up to be all 'point and click' this is a audience we are aiming for. Basically people who want a cheap system, but don't want to learn anything classed as 'hard'. Jo
--- linuxgirlie
The thing is we are designing this project with schools that are using RM and Microsoft systems. Now if both those systems ran there servers in console mode, then we would be aiming in the wrong direction. But seeing as they (esp. RM) are set up to be all 'point and click' this is a audience we are aiming for.
Basically people who want a cheap system, but don't want to learn anything classed as 'hard'.
I think you're spot on in your aims. I look forward to following this one. I've recently been using Debian at home (which I'm blown away by) - and that's lead me to notice Debian-based SkoleLinux. Also looks very interesting. Incidently - for Karoshi, does one download Mandrake *and* your iso? Or just your iso? All the best getting this into schools. Linux and academia should walk hand in hand. I'm amazed at the corporate attitudes of school management, who need to be educationalists: academics, who should embrace the concepts and underlying principles of open source. -- Matt ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
On Friday 13 Aug 2004 08:19, linuxgirlie wrote:
The thing is we are designing this project with schools that are using RM and Microsoft systems. Now if both those systems ran there servers in console mode, then we would be aiming in the wrong direction. But seeing as they (esp. RM) are set up to be all 'point and click' this is a audience we are aiming for.
I agree with Matt here and from experience within a school I can see exactly what you are aiming at. Also, despite managing to command some element of the CLI recently due to necessity and not desire (sorry Thomas) I am all for more GUIs.
Basically people who want a cheap system, but don't want to learn anything classed as 'hard'.
I assume this relates in the name as my Japanese wife tells me that koroshi means to work yourself to death so presumably your distro will mitigate this :)
Jo Paul
--- Paul Taylor
On Friday 13 Aug 2004 08:19, linuxgirlie wrote:
The thing is we are designing this project with schools that are using RM and Microsoft systems. Now if both those systems ran there servers in console mode, then we would be aiming in the wrong direction. But seeing as they (esp. RM) are set up to be all 'point and click' this is a audience we are aiming for.
I agree with Matt here and from experience within a school I can see exactly what you are aiming at. Also, despite managing to command some element of the CLI recently due to necessity and not desire (sorry Thomas) I am all for more GUIs.
Hmmmm. I've seen the power of working with text files over a gui. I'd advocate the gui as a way in, but would encourage working towards the command prompt. Incidently, 'mc' (midnight commander) was the way for me into a less gui'd system. It's a happy way into not installing X on servers. Not one to try to show management when they want a shiney RM/2000 interface. -- Matt ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Hi, Thanks for all the supporting comments. Command Line: I for one use the command line alot at home, and I do feel that it is better for certain tasks then an GUI but as I said this isn't our aim. For downloading you will need the Mandrake iso's as well as ours, as the project sits ontop of the mandrake distro. I will try and make this more clear on the website :) As for the name well done for knowing what it means, it was meant to be an oxymoron, basically why work yourself to death when you can have a easy system that is free!! Please keep me up-to-date with anything, that need changes etc, as there is still alot of work to be done. Jo
On Friday 13 Aug 2004 14:53, Matt Johnson wrote:
--- Paul Taylor
wrote: On Friday 13 Aug 2004 08:19, linuxgirlie wrote:
The thing is we are designing this project with
schools that are using
RM and Microsoft systems. Now if both those
systems ran there servers
in console mode, then we would be aiming in the
wrong direction. But
seeing as they (esp. RM) are set up to be all
'point and click' this
is a audience we are aiming for.
I agree with Matt here and from experience within a school I can see exactly what you are aiming at. Also, despite managing to command some element of the CLI recently due to necessity and not desire (sorry Thomas) I am all for more GUIs.
I was just speaking for a small minority on this list, including myself, who have managed to get this far with mostly GUIs and things seem to be heading that way, like it or not. Having said that, I managed to do far more with vi and ssh on my managed servers than I could with Plesk (Linux in a Nutshell in hand). I have also never used yast et al for samba as the smb.conf and a text editor is all you need. Also, it was the mystical power of the CLI that drew me to *nix in the first place as I watched SGI gurus churn out loads of code to get my company's DVRs to work back in the early 90s. Our main customer then was a little one called Pixar who were recording video of Mr Potato Head onto the devices from for some obscure reason.....
Hmmmm. I've seen the power of working with text files over a gui. I'd advocate the gui as a way in, but would encourage working towards the command prompt. Incidently, 'mc' (midnight commander) was the way for me into a less gui'd system. It's a happy way into not installing X on servers.
Not one to try to show management when they want a shiney RM/2000 interface.
-- Matt
___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Hi, I've recently taken over as ICT co-ordinator at a primary school. At the moment, we have about 30 computers running a mixture of Windows 98 and XP. At present, we have no dedicated server and I am very keen to get one set up. Obviously, as Linux is free, it is my preferred operating system for the server. I have installed SUSE Linux 9.1 Pro on a computer at home and played around with setting up a server but I don't seem to be having much luck. Ideally I want a server to act as a domain controller so that staff and pupils can login and access their own individual/class work areas with a shared space for staff to store planning, etc. Does anybody have any suggestions for setting this up? I'm really new to Linux so any advice would be very much appreciated! Thanks! Adrian :-)
--- Adrian Bates-Holland
Hi,
I've recently taken over as ICT co-ordinator at a primary school. At the moment, we have about 30 computers running a mixture of Windows 98 and XP.
A familiar setting. I'm a primary ICT co-ordinator also. Ok - firstly, in my opinion... it seems much easier doing this with Win98 than XP. Again in my opinion, it is much easier to do this with one workstation OS (either 98 or XP) rather than both. That doesn't mean it can't be done, but you have to have a grasp of some extra stuff in order to do it. Again, 98 seems easier than XP, or NT for that matter. I've achieved what you're after. Where are you? If you're near Hertfordshire, you can visit...?
At present, we have no dedicated server and I am very keen to get one set up. Obviously, as Linux is free, it is my preferred operating system for the server.
I've found it to have more advantages too...
I have installed SUSE Linux 9.1 Pro on a computer at home and played around with setting up a server but I don't seem to be having much luck.
SuSE is a good choice for setting things up using a graphic user interface, which is a nice way in. What aren't you having much luck with? I assume you have a couple of workstations at home too, and are not being successful in setting up samba?
Ideally I want a server to act as a domain controller so that staff and pupils can login and access their own individual/class work areas with a shared space for staff to store planning, etc.
It will do this admirably. My experience is doing exactly this, but with 98 only. This is what I did... I'll happily go into this in more detail. I can supply you with smb.conf and other handy things, but not from home (where I'm typing this). Use security = user in your smb.conf (if you don't know what smb.conf is, let me know and I'll start from scratch). I use two groups (setup using YAST2): users (already exists) and staff (created myself). This allows me to do a very simple desktop for either pupils (who belong to the users group as their primary group), or staff (who I obviously assign to the staff group as their primary group). I use mandatory profiles for this in 98. That means that I've got a template user for the pupils. I get that desktop and all the settings setup exactly the way I want them, then copy that profile to all pupils (making is a user.man - which makes it mandatory). If you don't know what mandatory profiles are, you need to google it. I point everyone's desktop to /server1/%g/desktop where samba subsitutes %g for the group the user belongs to (this needs me to check - which I can't do until I'm in school next week). This way pupils get a different set of shortcuts on their desktop to staff. In a primary school situation, I don't use passwords for pupils. Only staff have passwords.
Does anybody have any suggestions for setting this up? I'm really new to Linux so any advice would be very much appreciated!
You can of course work up to this, by using security = share in your smb.conf, forgetting about profiles and policies, having no users and just having folders that have password access on your server. It's not very satisfactory, but it's where I started 6 years ago. * Look at skolelinux (which looks to be very interesting to me) * Possibly Karoshi also. Please let us know what you can't get working... I'm sure someone will lend a hand (another advantage of comuunity based software) -- Matt Johnson ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Rather than re-iterate what others have said before, let me make a couple of general observations which you may find of help; I apologise if I am repeating only what you may have done. You speak of a domain so I assume you are wanting to use your machine as a PDC (primary domain controller). Have you ensured that no other machine is trying to be PDC and these appear in smb.conf [global] domain master = yes local master = yes preferred master = yes os level = 65 (actually I use >=127; it forces the Linux box to win any elections with genuine Windows boxes) wins support = yes (useful to have it as the WINS server, too) I think you are unlikely to need to use the "remote announce" parameter unless either staff machines or student machines as a block have problems authenticating. Being sure, then, that all user ids are in both the Linux and Samba password lists (assuming you aren't configuring PAM/Winbind yet) ensure that there are suitable netlogon and profile directories. Also, you will need to ensure that machine accounts exist for the relevant members so that gives rise to the question of IP addresses and names - fixed or DHCP? It doesn't matter but the hosts table or DNS must be configured to find the ip/name mappings. It is easier to set up as a workgroup machine rather than PDC at first, then "convert" it. Can a standalone Windows machine see the samba name on the Network Neighbourhood? Can it then get access to a non-specific share? One of the problems between win9x/me and winnt/xp is that they don't necessarily use the same protocols and it is best if only one protocol (NetBIOS) is used by the clients. Even so, W2k/XP is not the same as NT3/4 (fancy). Name resolution is best in this order: name resolve order = wins lmhosts bcast host BUT I try to run only wins host where host means a full host or DNS resolution is available to the Samba machine. There are also several offline resources. I think "The Official Samba-3 howto and reference Guide" (Prentice Hall) is probably most comprehensive although it sometimes might need to be read twice. O'Reilly also do an excellent Samba-3 book which is less comprehensive but easier to read. It is an exercise worth completing unless you have to battle against an R-M server (!) because you will have a more robust and reliable server resource. Then you can add a small firewall/proxy and a backup server then you will be redundant! -- Best wishes, Derek
participants (7)
-
Adrian Bates-Holland
-
Derek Harding
-
linuxgirlie
-
Matt Johnson
-
Paul Taylor
-
Thomas Adam
-
Tony Whitmore