[opensuse-edu] Re: [opensuse-project] package wishlists

James Tremblay

19 Dec 2006 19 Dec '06

04:32

With regards to package wishlists on the website[1]. There are several requests for packages that are already available through the build service / if the package is already on opensuse.org, can we put links to them in an "Education" update channel in the future? LRUPp seems to have linked

On Tue, 2006-12-19 at 01:43 +0000, Craig Millar wrote: the moodle packages from his /home:lrupp folder to education:server. if a package belongs in education:server folder, could you, would you link it please? same for education:desktop. please. I'd like to turn those two "channels" into the most trusted education software sites in the world!

...

packman / guru. Is it preferable to link to these available packages (bearing in mind that build service packages especially may not be production ready), why not ??? new tag line for the download service at opensuse, "Certified for OpenSUSE!" Does the build service repackage finished RPM's? if so I'd like to see all usable packages that are legally available as OSS brought into the BS for official product compatibility. one stop shop to build a school. (network)

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either with or without a disclaimer that the packages therein may not be of the standard expected, or to remove them as they are available elsewhere (esp in a more popular source, such as pm or guru)?

shouldn't "guru" want to mirror us rather than us mirror him? frees up his disk space for other projects? openSUSE needs to become the default repo for all OpenSUSE users, this will help marketing and usability perceptions. The packages we can't offer should be the domain of other repo's i.e joe smith gives his child his old laptop , it runs w2k but it doesn't have support. joe smith says "hey, OpenSUSE will run on this why buy XP", downloads, installs , updates opensuse and says hey I'd like (insert RPM) package. he goes to the software updater, looks for the package and it's there. he sees an add for "long term support subscriptions" upgrades to SLED and is "happy as a clam" if it's not, then he goes elsewhere to find his package.

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On occasion, links have been supplied to, for eg, packman resources, only for the user to complain that it's not part of the official openSUSE builds and therefore less desirable[2].

my point exactly

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Personally I tend to trust packman (and indeed guru and several build service) builds having used them for ages. My question is more about the intent of these pages. Is it to provide any link (no matter how reliable) to SUSE rpms, or is it to provide links to better known (or only official) builds? I trust them too, but let the more "experimental" users find the other repo's

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I think the essential issue is that of relationship of trust built up between a (group of) user(s) and a particular packager. everyone opensuse Perhaps a revamp of the wishlist pages is in order, something along the lines of wishlist items that are (or perhaps in factory), officially fulfilled,

do we need more specifics in writing regarding what can be wished for?

...

and a list of repos that are available (unofficially, and stated as such). I don't think we can officially or unofficially point to repo's that offer "illegal" packages that infringe pattens or copyrights

Craig, As much as I would like to take the easy route, I believe we owe it to OpenSUSE to bring everything SUSE under it's roof. if the BS doesn't currently have the tools for us to bring in existing RPM's, it should. I would like to be able to find an RPM elsewhere and bring it to the BS and make it "certified" and available according to category and repackaged for all current versions of OpenSUSE. Please, if I have misinterpreted any of your positions, let me know. James -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

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Roger

19 Dec 19 Dec

10:11

New subject: [opensuse-edu] Half-way houses (so to speak)

I migrated to Linux quite a while ago - and while it isn't perfect, I like it far better than 'Doze. But now I'm doing a PGCE, which involves teaching practice in M$ committed schools... What does anyone know about software, etc. that might help me to co-exist with that, without going entirely over to the M$ problem. OpenOffice.org is one that I'm already using, but that doesn't cope with recent Flash-enabled Powerpoint files (mind you, neither does the copy of M$ Office 97 that is still on my shelves). See where I'm going? The obvious solution (read as problem) is to buy the latest M$ product, but I don't want to do so! Another one is that, for the PGCE, in and out of different schools, I bought myself a Lenovo 3000 C100. I repartitioned the hard disk and installed Linux, which worked excellently - but then I found that the Windows repair package refuses to work unless the 'Doze partition is its original size, so because 'Doze is flakey and has to be repairable, I had to remove Linux. Again, there are 'Smart boards': both brands (Smart & Promethian) seem to be inextricably tied into M$ Office - they don't simply save to Word format files (which could be opened by OO.org), but they use the Word program to do it. Again, the email system at the school where I've just completed my forst placement looked at first sight to be Web based - well, it is, but it seems to use proprietory IE stuff to carry out most of its operations, so when I logged in using Firefox, the system simply didn't work. Now one PGCE student (or even, when I get a job, one teacher) isn't going to pursuade a whole school to change its computing policy, but I would like to push the open software envelope as far as I sensibly can over that proprietory approach. Has anyone got any suggestions? Good networking, Roger -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

Richard Smedley

20:15

New subject: [opensuse-edu] Half-way houses (so to speak)

Hello Roger, On Tue, 2006-12-19 at 10:11 +0000, Roger wrote:

...

I migrated to Linux quite a while ago - and while it isn't perfect, I like it far better than 'Doze.

But now I'm doing a PGCE, which involves teaching practice in M$ committed schools...

What does anyone know about software, etc. that might help me to co-exist with that, without going entirely over to the M$ problem. [snip]

While I'm sure this list will prove as useful as it did under its last incarnation [thanks once again to everyone who helped me last April with that article :o] - you should also get yourself signed up to schoolforge.org.uk, the other main list for Free Software in UK schools. :-) To answer your specific questions in the round, you are not going to win every round instantly - look at all the problems caused by non-free software in your school, then see where you can most easily make the biggest change. In a school with no Free Software awareness theIngots.org can be a good intro, as can a chance to introduce Moodle when the school realises it needs a VLE. Open Document Format and interoperability seem to be steadfastly ignored at the moment [in most schools], but standards are always worth a mention. Are you aware of this? http://www.openschoolsalliance.org/ The Early Day Motion now has 92 signatures from MPs wanting to know why there isn't more Free Software in schools :-) - Richard -- Richard Smedley, richard@sc.lug.org.uk Sustainable IT Consultant http://m6-it.org/ ``Software Freedom for the Voluntary Sector'' -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

Thomas Adam

7 Jan 7 Jan

01:41

New subject: [opensuse-edu] Half-way houses (so to speak)

--- Roger wrote:

...

OpenOffice.org is one that I'm already using, but that doesn't cope with recent Flash-enabled Powerpoint files (mind you, neither does the copy of M$ Office 97 that is still on my shelves). See where I'm going? The obvious solution (read as problem) is to buy the latest M$ product, but

I don't want to do so!

Give a list of needs you're currently having on Windows, and someone here will provide the linux equivalents -- it's a common question.

...

Another one is that, for the PGCE, in and out of different schools, I bought myself a Lenovo 3000 C100. I repartitioned the hard disk and installed Linux, which worked excellently - but then I found that the Windows repair package refuses to work unless the 'Doze partition is its original size, so because 'Doze is flakey and has to be repairable, I had to remove Linux.

Are you sure? More likely the byte-offset of the first partition that windows expects isn't where it was when it was originally installed.

...

placement looked at first sight to be Web based - well, it is, but it seems to use proprietory IE stuff to carry out most of its operations, so when I logged in using Firefox, the system simply didn't work.

Such as?

...

Has anyone got any suggestions?

Sure -- with some more precise information. :) -- Thomas Adam Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

Lars Rupp

27 Dec 27 Dec

11:44

Hi James On Tuesday 19 December 2006 05:32, James Tremblay wrote (shortened):

...

I'd like to turn those two "channels" into the most trusted education software sites in the world!

I think we should decide between: - "build service" channels (containing always the "bleeding edge" software) and - "installation" channels (containing well tested software for endusers). Pointing endusers to channels with sometime broken packages doesn't make sense to me. Yes: the buildservice should provide an additional "Administration Frontend" for Repository Administrators, so they can decide when a (new) package will get in an external installation repository for endusers, but at this time this Frontend is not there... So my current personal "Roadmap" looks like: 1) Find out what we need: + test the current software packages we have on the distro => file bugreports if there is something we can do better + test other software packages (like new ones available in the build service or completely different ones) 2) Bring it together: + come up with some lists on en.opensuse.org/Education which contain recommendations classified by childrens age or "subject" resp. "area of interest". So parents and children get a first contact point to look for available (and perhaps missing) linux education-software. + develop some special education patterns (a list of packages, marked for installation during the installation-phase of the new distribution) for installation sources. They can be splittet in the same categories like the ones in the wiki. So a first set of patterns can perhaps be placed on the next openSUSE 10.3 and endusers can just select a pattern like "educational software for children from 4-10 years" and get all software which is described in the wiki. (We can create some tables in the wiki and place links to a more detailed description (and perhaps even a curriculum) of every package there.) 3) Enhance it: + With the patterns and a hughe amount of good packages, we can start an own "Edu-CD" like edubuntu - if this is necessary. But I think this should be something at the end of a long way. If we create a good starting point for new customers, who can get 1. information (which software should I install for my children) 2. packages ("just one click away") 3. useful instructions for "the first time" they try the packages and all of these looking like a charm - I think we can do a very good job - and we need only a few packagers. What we need most are some "Beta-Testers" who test the available packages and write articles about them in the wiki. Thats just my two cents worth - what do you think? Lars -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

James Tremblay

14:13

On Wed, 2006-12-27 at 12:44 +0100, Lars Rupp wrote:

...

Hi James

On Tuesday 19 December 2006 05:32, James Tremblay wrote (shortened):

...
I'd like to turn those two "channels" into the most trusted education software sites in the world!

I think we should decide between: - "build service" channels (containing always the "bleeding edge" software) and - "installation" channels (containing well tested software for endusers).

Pointing endusers to channels with sometime broken packages doesn't make sense to me.

Yes: the buildservice should provide an additional "Administration Frontend" for Repository Administrators, so they can decide when a (new) package will get in an external installation repository for endusers, but at this time this Frontend is not there...

So my current personal "Roadmap" looks like: 1) Find out what we need: + test the current software packages we have on the distro => file bugreports if there is something we can do better + test other software packages (like new ones available in the build service or completely different ones)

2) Bring it together: + come up with some lists on en.opensuse.org/Education which contain recommendations classified by childrens age or "subject" resp. "area of interest". So parents and children get a first contact point to look for available (and perhaps missing) linux education-software. + develop some special education patterns (a list of packages, marked for installation during the installation-phase of the new distribution) for installation sources. They can be splittet in the same categories like the ones in the wiki. So a first set of patterns can perhaps be placed on the next openSUSE 10.3 and endusers can just select a pattern like "educational software for children from 4-10 years" and get all software which is described in the wiki. (We can create some tables in the wiki and place links to a more detailed description (and perhaps even a curriculum) of every package there.)

I'm not sure we should bother AJ about adding this stuff to the "mainline", I always thought it would be separate, unless it's a post installation option in Yast from either our repo's or the edu-cd. I would put it as a default bookmark on the desktop like they used to do with the SuSE home page in SLE9

...

3) Enhance it: + With the patterns and a hughe amount of good packages, we can start an own "Edu-CD" like edubuntu - if this is necessary. But I think this should be something at the end of a long way.

If we create a good starting point for new customers, who can get 1. information (which software should I install for my children) 2. packages ("just one click away") 3. useful instructions for "the first time" they try the packages

and all of these looking like a charm - I think we can do a very good job - and we need only a few packagers. What we need most are some "Beta-Testers" who test the available packages and write articles about them in the wiki. Thats just my two cents worth - what do you think?

Lars

I'll take that as a PLAN! Should we make time to collaborate on what the wiki says? how about our own IRC channel, #opensuse-edu ? I am in the learning phase on so many things, that hearing from you is blessing. I dropped the core set of "admin" packages in the /server BS folder but they all need setup scripts and spec files added, another learning curve for me. I don't have a clue as to how to separate the "BS" channel from the "installation" channel. Maybe I should have put them in my /home BS folder and gave you permission's ? Do you have a regular time we can IRC? I think I'm ok with maintaining the wiki content and with some direction I can make it better. I was wondering if someone could do some official "wooing" on the people at http://www.tux4kids.com/ to join in? I posted about us in their forum. I was hoping that we could get lots of help from Edu communities like them. I will do what is asked of me to make this happen, so please feel free to ask. James -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

Lars Rupp

28 Dec 28 Dec

10:51

Am Mi 27.12.2006 15:13 schrieb James Tremblay :

...

...
+ develop some special education patterns (a list of packages, marked for installation during the installation-phase of the new distribution)

I'm not sure we should bother AJ about adding this stuff to the "mainline", I always thought it would be separate, unless it's a post installation option in Yast from either our repo's or the edu-cd.

Every time when I install an openSUSE distribution (and, yes: I do this more than once for every Release ;-) I'm searching for the educational packages which are still on the media. Some of them (like "kdeedu") are easy to find via the search option in the detailed package manager view), some of them (like "drgeo" for example) are more hidden and someone must know them bevore he can find them. I think AJ is the last person who says "no" if we send him a list of packages for an extra "education" pattern.

...

I would put it as a default bookmark on the desktop like they used to do with the SuSE home page in SLE9

Yes, we can add a bookmark to the wiki site, too. But I think without any software in mind, no normal user whould realize that a normal openSUSE distribution comes with many educational packages "out of the box".

...

I'll take that as a PLAN!

Then we should add it to the wiki. And begin with part one... ;-)

...

Should we make time to collaborate on what the wiki says? how about our own IRC channel, #opensuse-edu ?

Huh! Many thinks to do. I don't have the time to work on every place :-( But perhaps we can find some people who have different interests and like to maintain thinks like an IRC channel? I think you can maintain the wiki pages - so we should discuss if we need more "maintainers" for the other thinks like "packages" (should be a packager with access to the build service), "mailinglist" and so on. But please: not more chiefs than indians ;-)

...

I dropped the core set of "admin" packages in the /server BS folder but they all need setup scripts and spec files added, another learning curve for me.

I can help you - and many people on the buildservice and packagers mailinglist, too. But we are not so fast between the years... ;-)

...

I don't have a clue as to how to separate the "BS" channel from the "installation" channel. Maybe I should have put them in my /home BS folder and gave you permission's ?

Good question. I think we should discuss this on the buildservice mailing list and come up with a solution in the wiki.

...

Do you have a regular time we can IRC?

Hm. Good question...

...

I was wondering if someone could do some official "wooing" on the people at http://www.tux4kids.com/ to join in? I posted about us in their forum. I was hoping that we could get lots of help from Edu communities like them. I will do what is asked of me to make this happen, so please feel free to ask.

I think helping each other is always a good point. But we should show others what they can get as benefit from us before we ask them to contribute. Perhaps as you might know: we decided not to have a own "openSUSE" Forum because other people have forums out there which are much better and which are online since a couple of time. So perhaps we should look out (see my first post, position 1 ;-) and see what others always have - and provide only those thinks which are not represented enough in the world wide web. Currently my impression is that there is enough educational software - but not enough documentation about it. Perhaps this is wrong. Perhaps we can contact the authors of some software packages and ask if we can assist in documentation... And we should ask the people on edubuntu, site@school, Schoolforge, ... (who knows more?) if we can work together. Who likes to ask them? Greetings, Lars -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

James Tremblay

12:55

On Thu, 2006-12-28 at 11:51 +0100, Lars Rupp wrote:

...

Am Mi 27.12.2006 15:13 schrieb James Tremblay :

...
...
+ develop some special education patterns (a list of packages, marked for installation during the installation-phase of the new distribution)

I'm not sure we should bother AJ about adding this stuff to the "mainline", I always thought it would be separate, unless it's a post installation option in Yast from either our repo's or the edu-cd.

Every time when I install an openSUSE distribution (and, yes: I do this more than once for every Release ;-) I'm searching for the educational packages which are still on the media. Some of them (like "kdeedu") are easy to find via the search option in the detailed package manager view), some of them (like "drgeo" for example) are more hidden and someone must know them bevore he can find them. I think AJ is the last person who says "no" if we send him a list of packages for an extra "education" pattern.

Ok, now i'm up to speed , didn't know those packages still existed in the "mainline". which now makes a lot of sense to to have an install pattern.

...

...
I would put it as a default bookmark on the desktop like they used to do with the SuSE home page in SLE9

Yes, we can add a bookmark to the wiki site, too. But I think without any software in mind, no normal user whould realize that a normal openSUSE distribution comes with many educational packages "out of the box".

...
I'll take that as a PLAN!

Then we should add it to the wiki. And begin with part one... ;-)

...
Should we make time to collaborate on what the wiki says? how about our own IRC channel, #opensuse-edu ? Huh! Many thinks to do. I don't have the time to work on every place :-( But perhaps we can find some people who have different interests and like to maintain thinks like an IRC channel?

I meant just you and I, :)

...

I think you can maintain the wiki pages - so we should discuss if we need more "maintainers" for the other thinks like "packages" (should be a packager with access to the build service), "mailinglist" and so on.

But please: not more chiefs than indians ;-)

...
I dropped the core set of "admin" packages in the /server BS folder but they all need setup scripts and spec files added, another learning curve for me.

I can help you - and many people on the buildservice and packagers mailinglist, too. But we are not so fast between the years... ;-)

not looking for speed, just greatness :)

...

...
I don't have a clue as to how to separate the "BS" channel from the "installation" channel. Maybe I should have put them in my /home BS folder and gave you permission's ?

Good question. I think we should discuss this on the buildservice mailing list and come up with a solution in the wiki.

...
Do you have a regular time we can IRC?

Hm. Good question...

...
I was wondering if someone could do some official "wooing" on the people at http://www.tux4kids.com/ to join in? I posted about us in their forum. I was hoping that we could get lots of help from Edu communities like them. I will do what is asked of me to make this happen, so please feel free to ask.

I think helping each other is always a good point. But we should show others what they can get as benefit from us before we ask them to contribute.

Perhaps as you might know: we decided not to have a own "openSUSE" Forum because other people have forums out there which are much better and which are online since a couple of time. So perhaps we should look out (see my first post, position 1 ;-) and see what others always have - and provide only those thinks which are not represented enough in the world wide web.

Nicely said!

...

Currently my impression is that there is enough educational software - but not enough documentation about it. Perhaps this is wrong. Perhaps we can contact the authors of some software packages and ask if we can assist in documentation...

And we should ask the people on edubuntu, site@school, Schoolforge, ... (who knows more?) if we can work together. Who likes to ask them?

Greetings, Lars

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

James Tremblay

29 Dec 29 Dec

22:38

New subject: [opensuse-edu] which programming languages preferred?

I have a question. While researching the different Open Source School administration software, I have found two major camps 1) php 2) perl without starting a flame war, which is easier to secure and more commonly known by programmers? james -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

PerfectReign

30 Dec 30 Dec

03:18

New subject: [opensuse-edu] which programming languages preferred?

--- James Tremblay wrote:

...

I have a question. While researching the different Open Source School administration software, I have found two major camps 1) php 2) perl without starting a flame war, which is easier to secure and more commonly known by programmers? james

Probably both. I only know PHP, but them I'm a manager, so my job description no longer involves programming. IMO, you might find more people knowing perl, as it has a longer history than PHP. Now, according to the TPCI rankings ( http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm ), however, PHP is right ahead of perl in terms of popularity. According to one leading job search engine - which I find a decent indicator of needs - there are 4748 perl jobs available and only 1229 PHP jobs. Of course, there are also 14,673 Java jobs available. :P __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

James Tremblay

04:08

New subject: [opensuse-edu] which programming languages preferred?

On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 19:18 -0800, PerfectReign wrote:

...

--- James Tremblay wrote:

...
I have a question. While researching the different Open Source School administration software, I have found two major camps 1) php 2) perl without starting a flame war, which is easier to secure and more commonly known by programmers? james

Probably both. I only know PHP, but them I'm a manager, so my job description no longer involves programming.

IMO, you might find more people knowing perl, as it has a longer history than PHP.

Now, according to the TPCI rankings ( http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm ), however, PHP is right ahead of perl in terms of popularity. So it would makes sense to pursue A high bread of to two or three existing popular projects with a common language? Especially if the language itself is popular...

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

James Mohr

08:11

New subject: [opensuse-edu] which programming languages preferred?

On Saturday 30 December 2006 05:08, James Tremblay wrote:

...

On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 19:18 -0800, PerfectReign wrote:

...
--- James Tremblay wrote:

...
I have a question. While researching the different Open Source School administration software, I have found two major camps 1) php 2) perl without starting a flame war, which is easier to secure and more commonly known by programmers? james

Probably both. I only know PHP, but them I'm a manager, so my job description no longer involves programming.

IMO, you might find more people knowing perl, as it has a longer history than PHP.

Now, according to the TPCI rankings ( http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm ), however, PHP is right ahead of perl in terms of popularity.

So it would makes sense to pursue A high bread of to two or three existing popular projects with a common language? Especially if the language itself is popular...

If you know neither and are trying to base your decision on the language the software is written in, I think you are going about it the wrong way. Both are "easy secure and commonly known by programmers". It all depends on what you want to do. If you know neither, make the decision based on the features of the software you want to implement not the programming language. I use both. My original Linux Tutorial (link below) was written in Perl. When I switched to PHPNuke as my portal, I converted all of my modules into PHP, which also meant having to learn PHP from scratch. Perl and PHP are close enough that I had no problems learning or converting. All of my web site programming is now done with PHP. On the systems that I administer, I typically write scripts in Perl. I choose the right tool for the job. I see no real need for a hybrid of the multiple languages unless you *absolutely* need the functionality one offers that the others do not. Usually, there is a way to implement anything using just one language or you can implement very small blocks in a different language if you *have to*. The only time I would recommend Java is when you *absolutely* need any extra functionality, *absolutely* need the extra speed or you *absolutely* need to run it on multiple operating system. Regards, jimmo -- --------------------------------------- "Be more concerned with your character than with your reputation. Your character is what you really are while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden --------------------------------------- Be sure to visit the Linux Tutorial: http://www.linux-tutorial.info -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

James Tremblay

14:00

New subject: [opensuse-edu] which programming languages preferred?

...

...
So it would makes sense to pursue A high bread of to two or three existing popular projects with a common language? Especially if the language itself is popular...

If you know neither and are trying to base your decision on the language the software is written in, I think you are going about it the wrong way. Both are "easy secure and commonly known by programmers". It all depends on what you want to do. If you know neither, make the decision based on the features of the software you want to implement not the programming language.

I use both. My original Linux Tutorial (link below) was written in Perl. When I switched to PHPNuke as my portal, I converted all of my modules into PHP, which also meant having to learn PHP from scratch. Perl and PHP are close enough that I had no problems learning or converting. All of my web site programming is now done with PHP. On the systems that I administer, I typically write scripts in Perl. I choose the right tool for the job.

I see no real need for a hybrid of the multiple languages unless you *absolutely* need the functionality one offers that the others do not. Usually, there is a way to implement anything using just one language or you can implement very small blocks in a different language if you *have to*.

The only time I would recommend Java is when you *absolutely* need any extra functionality, *absolutely* need the extra speed or you *absolutely* need to run it on multiple operating system.

Regards,

jimmo

-- --------------------------------------- "Be more concerned with your character than with your reputation. Your character is what you really are while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden --------------------------------------- Be sure to visit the Linux Tutorial: http://www.linux-tutorial.info

what I eventually would like to see is, a product that has all the features in these three programs; 1) centre- written in PHP on a postgres DB 2) moodle- written in PHP on a mysql db with an available postgres port 3) openbiblio- written in php on mysql db this "hybrid" would be the core "source database" for an education assessment process. Since I know neither PHP or Postgres nor even MySQL, I'm looking to get a programmers point of view of the idea and work that needs to be done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

31 Dec 31 Dec

04:29

New subject: [opensuse-edu] which programming languages preferred?

On Saturday 30 December 2006 06:00, James Tremblay wrote:

...

what I eventually would like to see is, a product that has all the features in these three programs; 1) centre- written in PHP on a postgres DB 2) moodle- written in PHP on a mysql db with an available postgres port 3) openbiblio- written in php on mysql db

this "hybrid" would be the core "source database" for an education assessment process. Since I know neither PHP or Postgres nor even MySQL, I'm looking to get a programmers point of view of the idea and work that needs to be done.

Okay, I'm a bit confused. (Not that there's anything new...) Are you planning on re-writing these apps for inclusion in the distro? -- kai - theperfectreign@yahoo.com www.perfectreign.com || www.4thedadz.com www.filesite.org || www.donutmonster.com wo ist der ort für den ehrlichsten kuss ich weiss, dass ich ihn für uns finden muss... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

James Tremblay

13:57

New subject: [opensuse-edu] which programming languages preferred?

On Saturday 30 December 2006 23:29, Kai Ponte wrote:
> On Saturday 30 December 2006 06:00, James Tremblay wrote:
> > what I eventually would like to see is,
> > a product that has all the features in these three programs;
> > 1) centre- written in PHP on a postgres DB
> > 2) moodle- written in PHP on a mysql db with an available postgres port
> > 3) openbiblio- written in php on mysql db
> >
> > this "hybrid" would be the core "source database" for an education
> > assessment process.
> > Since I know neither PHP or Postgres nor even MySQL, I'm looking to get
> > a programmers point of view of the idea and work that needs to be done.
>
> Okay, I'm a bit confused. (Not that there's anything new...)
>
> Are you planning on re-writing these apps for inclusion in the distro?
 Kai,
I have a set of goals for these.
1) get them to install with a Q&A routine from an RPM. this will help make 
them more accessable to to people that don't know any command line.
2) get them to share an LDAP directory , This is necessary to reduce data 
redundancy and inaccuracy, it would also bypass the need for a SIF (student 
information frameworks) agent which is soon to be a requirement in the 
states,( I think there is a similar requirement growing in the UK, possibly 
in the EU as well all though I don't follow there EDU regs.)
3) blend them together into one interface. To create a Hybrid that would 
include the setup from the "Open School Server" , this last goal would set 
the stage for a commercial version that both Novell and the good folks at  
Extis.de could support.

James
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Thomas Adam

7 Jan 7 Jan

01:35

New subject: [opensuse-edu] which programming languages preferred?

--- James Tremblay wrote:

...

I have a question. While researching the different Open Source School administration software, I have found two major camps 1) php 2) perl without starting a flame war, which is easier to secure and more commonly known by programmers?

I haven't bothered to read the other replies to this thread, since I can pretty much guess how they're going to read, but here's my own suggestions to you. Who cares what it's written in? I mean it -- if this is a project for yourself, and you don't know PHP for instance, would you start writing you project in it? No, of course not. Neither would you Perl. The reason why both are used is it's the lowest common demoninator was to what all programmers are mostly going to have experience in, and can switch their own way of thinking towards. Both PHP and Perl (via modperl, or CGI, etc) are fine for web programming. PHP is useless though, IMO -- it's so simple that it promotes bad programming practices and allows for anyone to do silly things in it without realising it. Not to mention it has several large security holes in it which effectively makes it a great programming language if you've forgotton the root password (it's good at ascertaining that for you. :P) but bit a lot else. Perl is slightly better in that it's more diverse and lends itself well to administrative tasks easier, but that's by the by. Of course, your question is meaningless without any real context. I might just as well suggest that you use ALGOL. That too has its uses. -- Thomas Adam Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-edu+help@opensuse.org

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James Mohr
James Tremblay
Kai Ponte
Lars Rupp
PerfectReign
Richard Smedley
Roger
Thomas Adam