Ian, what you are saying seems to make good sense to me. For my part, though, I have only managed peer to peer Win98 to Linux via Samba so far. This was a venture into a strange land in itself. Now linking upto an RM/NT domain with global user logins starts to become a different game. I have been reading all the technical posts on this site and thinking that I want to to get stuck into this nightmare like I want a hole in my head! Maybe the way forward that we are looking for is a distro that can autoconnect you to the RM server. The option of easily connecting either OS could keep a lot of people happy and appeals greatly. What do you and people think? Is this possible? Could it be an easier option than a full blown setup like www.bluelinux.org are working on? -----Original Message----- From: Ian [mailto:ian.lynch2@ntlworld.com] Sent: 02 February 2002 11:08 To: SuSe Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Schools Linux distro
Hmm. But you wouldn't try XP on a couple of old dodgy boxes and XPect much. Linux _will_ run on an old machine. It will turn a redundant box into a very useful bit of backend kit very happily (router, print server, file server ect). Linux on the desktop, at least in the sense that me and you want, will run on something a little more up to date. I know exactly what you are saying, BUT I no longer have a Windows installation at home - which for me is very significant. KDE is _so_ much better than the Windows desktop.
We have a Windows 2000 network with a pretty high spec server - dual processors, 512 meg, SCSI RAID etc. As a bit of an experiment we gashed together an AMD 450 with 256 meg using LTSP set up and stuck it on the network using cygwin for a login. The perception was that it was quicker than the main server! Ok lot's of issues about like with like but it just goes to show you can prove just about anything about anything if you want to.
I think Chris's idea is excellent and been toying with the idea of approaching Mandrake about similar myself, anyway. I don't have any experience of Red Hat but they seem to have a good record for corporate support. What are Suse thinking Roger?
(I tried Mandrake, and have come back to RedHat. Mandrake messed me about with it's control centre trying to set up my cable modem.
You must have been unlucky because my NTL conection worked frst time from the basic set up on installation without doing anything in control centre AFAIR. There are some issues with Mandrake but then at least there is a choice!
It was probably me,
Nah, if it doesn't work its the suppliers fault by definition for not making it fool proof :-)
Not being too negative though, I think, we will probably look to be installing XP because of the number of existing Windows based licences that we have and the resident level of staff training that we possess throughout. I include in this, all the staff nervously working through their NOF courses on their new machines that their spent hard earnt cash upon as well as our gap filling KS3 part timers.
A lot of us are in similar positions. There's no instant fix. Perseverance, and following up ideas such as Chris', or working on projects such as Michael Brown's. I'm locked into RM Connect here - so this discussion could yield some results for me!
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. My line of argument goes like this. If Open Source continues to be taken up world wide at the current rate its only a matter of time, therefore those with no experience of it are putting themselves in a very dangerous position (Scare them! MS, RM et. al do it all the time. Its just part of the marketing game) It costs very little to set up a thin client server, put it on the network and give access to those older machines you were going to throw out. Put them in say English and give them Word processing and Internet access which is mainly what they will want. If they would have had nothing this is definitely better. We are not claiming perfection, only improvement.
Additionally, There are quite a few killer apps that I don't think we could live without and quite a few departments have invested large amounts of budget into resource CD's and windows based curriculum support software.
But they already have machines running these so when they are needed you don't want them blocked by kids doing a bit of WP. So you put lots of thin clients around to do the basic WP Internet stuff on Linux and leave the rest to do the other bits. Its bad management practice not to target resources at the applications and there is an opportunity cost in using an expensive machine for a trivial task.
have been using XP on standalones for a while now. It represents a big move forward and so far is a very solid platform.
XP is not so different from 2000 - more expensive and the lower cost versions can't be networked. My advice would be to use 2000 where you need MS stuff.
I have reservations too, about Sun Microsystems making a monoploly of my network and taking over where Microsoft left off either. I wouldn't want to invest curriculum development and good time into possibly buggy and soley office based moves forwards either.
Fair point. OpenOffice.org is making good progress. That's more exciting than SO6, although SO6 is fairly exciting to be honest. I _really_ like the beta.
Even if Sun charge for this it will have to be substantially less expensive than MS Office, in the longer term there is Open Office and with XML and improved filters there will be many free or very low cost alternatives to choose from. The key is breaking the current monopoly.
Now, start to resist the urge to flame me at this point, please. I am on your side, really. I would love for Linux to succeed at a school level but I don't mind paying Bill Gates if it makes my life easier. If I sweat and work against the flow, upset staff and departments, all I will get for showing the LEA and the Head that we can survive on less money is a budget reduction. Not much incentive really, is it.
Look at it the other way round. If you had al your software free and someone came a long and said I have a product that you can buy with loads of strings attached and I'm sure your school will increase your budget to pay for it, would you go for it :-) More like call the menin white coats.
Pay a fair day's wage for a fair day's work and we might find some people prepared to get Linux moving.
Commercially for my company Linux is a far better bet than Windows. (We have installed some pretty big Windows 2000 networks) Hopefully it will be a little while before all the others cotton on and we will maintain our competitive advantage ;-) If it was very obvious and easy everyone would have done it, but you get competitive advantage by doing the things others can't or won't.
I know it was a throw away phrase, but to be fair Linux is moving very quickly. If you come away from the linux news for a couple of months, then return, there's been a whole load of significant improvements in the software that we all use. The updates are quite cheap too! The beauty is, that it's _not_ company dependant. It _will_ happen.
Chris, you have
already said that you are not going to work full time on this. Is anyone?
Probably not on that particular project, but on getting Linux at the desktop into schools in general, its pretty full-time for me at present. You don't have to go entirely for one operating system and around 400 secondary schools already use Linux alongside Windows in various capacities. Regards, -- IanL -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help@suse.com