"become to angry to see "
Should that be "too angry" ? :-)
> From: James & Cybèle <CJC(a)stonycobbles.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: Schools List <suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com>
> Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] MS and PCs still
> Date: 09 May 2002 01:14
> I'm afraid some of you need to sit back and read what you write sometimes
> and READ what others write. As to Frank, either your first language isn't
> English or you've become to angry to see anything you don't want too.
> James Carter
> South lee School
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com
On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 08:26:29AM +0100, Ian wrote:
> > Which is why I believe I'm not breaking the law by running one
> > licensed copy of NT on 2 different machines, laptop & workstation,
> > because to my mind it constitutes fair use the same way you can copy
> > an audio CD for personal use.
> I think you might have a point if you demonstrate that you are the only user
> and the machines aren't used at the same time but it would have to be tested
> in court and who knows what they might come up with.
Well they'd come up with all sorts of specious arguments but at the
end of the day the judge has to simply decide whether it constitutes
fair use. It seems pretty fair to me though....although I could be
> Snag with the law is that its expensive so gives advantage to large
> corporates who can afford it.
Certainly in the US courts that principle seems to be the case but
over here the courts seem to take into account the plaintiffs and
defendents resources. I'm thinking in particular of the McDonalds two.
> > I must write to Microsoft and ask them to sue me, might be fun.
> I'd make sure your assets are transferred somewhere accessible just in case.
Do you mean *in*accessible?;) I've got no assets to speak of and those
that I have are tools of my trade which can't be grabbed by bailiffs
or whatever. I wouldn't mind being made bankrupt & then my overdraft
would get cleared....
My understanding though is that in `test' cases it's rare for the
defendent to pick up the tab for the plaintiffs legal costs even if
> Mind if you could get a few hundred thousand people to take MS to court
> individually, it would cost them a lot. Wonder if it could qualify for legal
> aid? Good way of getting the issue into the media too.
I think I'll go for it. I'm off on holiday at the end of the month but
I'll start poking them with a sharp stick when I get back.
> > Goes without saying IANAL. I'd like to hear others opinions on the
> > `fair use' argument I've espoused here.
> > Don't schools copy some sections of printed educational material and
> > isn't that also considered fair use?
> Usually its with permission and for small sections. Since small
> sections of MT aren't much use its a difficult parallel to draw.
> (Some might argue large sections of NT aren't much use :-)
LOL. The only sections that are any good that I can ascertain are the
I think there's another argument to be had about their licensing with
regards the fact that a lot of the network stuff in NT is Berkeley based
(which I'm free to copy and distribute under the terms it was produced
by UCL) and some of their code has been ripped off:
How do I know that the major part of their code hasn't been purloined?
It might contain GPL code as far as I know. If that's the case then
it's little more than a software distribution like RedHat or SuSE. I
know SuSE you can't copy (I think) because it contains some proprietary
code but I don't think they get upset if you use it on more than one
machine. But without a full code audit of NT it's not possible to know
whether the whole lot hasn't been contaminated by the GPL in which
case I'd be free to copy it.
> > Where do you draw the line? Why's
> > software considered so different from other data?
> Probably because it is different! In my view copyright on software should be
> much shorter than for books because of the speed of technological change.
> Books cost money to manufacture, software is distributable over the Net etc.
The whole of the law is basically a mess on this front and nobody
really knows where they stand. What if you publish a program in book
form? I know PGP did this to circumvent restrictions regards export of
cryptographic code to countries outside the US, PGP is a non-trivial
piece of code too.
Tel: 01423 323019
PGP keyID: 0xC0B341A3
To the systems programmer, users and applications serve only to provide a
Microsoft Office virtually owns the productivity suite market and runs
upward of $479 per copy—a price-to-ubiquity ratio that Microsoft Corp.
has been able to maintain through constant feature refinement and
careful guarding of its de facto standard office file formats.
Enter OpenOffice.org 1.0, which became available for download last week.
OpenOffice.org--or OOo, as it has become known--is a freely available,
open-source office productivity suite that delivers enough functionality
and Office file format compatibility to make it a compelling replacement
for the Microsoft suite and a good option for Linux and Solaris users.
Red Hat Europe
t: +44 1483 734955 m: +44 7720 079845
> From: Matt Johnson <johnsonmlw(a)yahoo.com>
> To: SuSe <suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com>
> Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Preinstalled Windows: AARGH! I can't
get it off!
> Date: 07 May 2002 19:24
> > According to a later Register story they have
> > removed this
> > requirment. Apparently what they really ment to say
> > is
> > that people donating machines should donate any OEM
> > software.
> > (Well except in sensible parts of the world, like
> > Germany,
> > where courts have ruled that a PC is simply a bundle
> > of
> > parts, with any OEM software being part of the
> > bundle.)
> Yes, I can give away my computer, but remove and keep
> my sound card, should I wish. I just say "No sound
> Maybe I missed the point.
The real point is that the M$ software is purchased for a single system -
and that once installed, then it cannot be transferred to a different
Here's some (obvious) food for thought ...
I have an 'original' PC clone. It has an AMD Athlon processor, new case &
PSU, replacement memory, replacement video card, and upgrade sound card,
add-in hard drives, I replaced the 5.25" DSDD floppies with 3.5" HD
floppies. The keyboard has been replaced and so has the monitor. In fact
none of the original machine exists anymore, but it is an original PC, and
therefore I can continue to run DOS 2.2 on it.
So just how do we define the boundary between new system and upgrade?
(Other than by an arbitrary decision?)
Paul P. Ellison
Tel: 01237 426231 (direct)
01237 471701 (switchboard)
Fax: 01237 425981
Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000.
You are warned that all electronic communications are subject
to interception for regulatory, quality control and crime
Edgehill IT Department Email Service.
Please check sender's address from body of
Message for return address.
Find us at:
On Wednesday 08 May 2002 3:52 pm, Martijn Klingens wrote:
> On Wednesday 08 May 2002 18:34, Phil Driscoll wrote:
> > I've just done the experiment on a SuSE 8.0 box at home and [$i] does
> > seem to work here in kioslaverc - it prevents any changes I make to the
> > proxy settings from being acted upon. Maybe I messed something up at
> > school - sorry!
> I haven't read the rest of the thread on the SuSE list, but are you by
> chance trying to use the KConfig flags on KDE 2? They absolutely require
> KDE 3 to work, and 3.1 (maybe 3.0.1) will include some more to force
> expanding environment variables and stuff. Those are not even in 3.0.
No it's KDE 3 and I'm only trying to do the $i stuff - however since I can get
it to work here I think I perhaps just did something silly earlier.
I presume folks know - but there are moves in
government etc. for open source (I dont know how it
got there cos I dont trust them however there are
probably people out in government circles trying to do
the right thing for others a minority group Mais
It is a draft policy (I fink) on Open Source Software
for the government
It says some really sensible and outrageously stupid
stuff both pertinent
.eg.- Our first key conclusion is that OSS is indeed
the start of a fundamental change in the software
infrastructure marketplace, and is not a hype bubble
that will burst. This is perhaps surprising because
OSS does at first sight appear to be a bit of a
We expect OSS to rapidly become the market leader in
consumer computing devices
comments on the report are interesting its a
lengthy report but I just flicked through
Also The Register says some stuff re Blair it would
be nice if there was a backlash against MS cos Blair
etc support it hee hee -
Also check out NHS stuff
Which says The potential benefits to the NHS from
OSS are considerable and limited actions by the NHSIA
along these lines could have a significant impact on
the implementation of the NHS Strategy and the
achievement of the objectives of Information for
Check out - http://www.vnunet.com/News/1130353
Twenty local authorities are currently running trials
Penwith District Council is already using the software
on its 300 desktops. Head of IT Andy Mann says neither
interoperability nor training have been big issues,
and he thinks a clear lead from Socitm will be a great
help to councils considering migration.
Ballmer says Microsoft offers value for money which
will help it keep customers.
'Every product we compete with, we're cheaper. We're
just not cheaper than Linux or StarOffice. It's free
but free is not magic.'
Who says its not magic u load it on and it does what
it says on the can unlike MS where u is taking the
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 08:59:34AM +0100, Ian wrote:
> On Tuesday 07 May 2002 03:39, Frank Shute wrote:
> > If our politicians are more `talented & dedicated' than most people,
> > why does it take a Peruvian politician to understand open source
> > software, nail the MS FUD & save his taxpayer's money &
> > confidentiality?
> You have to realise that this is one issue and it is not the main concern of
> most people.
But it should be of concern and politicians in this country should
make a stand on it like their their Peruvian counterpart and get
people interested in how their money is spent and their personal
information held and used.
> They might well be dedicated and talented in other fields and
> technologically weak.
If they were dedicated and talented in other fields then they wouldn't
go into politics.
> The Peruvian minister probably just happens to also
> have a background in IT and Open Source in particular. Now if you stood for
> parliament, Frank, and could get enough people to vote for you ......
Yes, and a squadron of flying pigs passes overhead...
Feel free to write to the prime minister and suggest that I should
become a `people's peer'. Best not to tell him that I think he's a
w*nker though...or it's flying pigs time again.
I hereby promise I'll take a principled stand on everything even if
it's unpopular (especially if it *is* unpopular) and promise not to
tow a party line.
I also promise to forego wearing ermine....maybe a penguin skin
> > What, our civil servants have been `brainwashed' but our politicians
> > who in their wisdom employ them and are fond of being as hospitable as
> > possible to Mr Gates are `talented & dedicated? If you're not saying
> > that, what exactly are you saying?
> Hm, its a bit naive to believe that in these matters civil servants don't
> advise Ministers.
...and ministers advise civil servants.
> My dealings with the Civil Service and BECTa lead me to
> believe that they are risk averse by nature - if not they would be working in
> the private sector doing entrepreneurial things.
That's right. But then they have promoted the culture of blame and
have thus tied their hands with regards taking any vaguely risky
decisions. Worth reading the Reith lectures that were delivered this
year regards this.
> Now if Ministers are lacking
> in technological savvy, how many CS will stick their neck out and tell the
> Minister to cancel the meeting with Bill Gates which is attracting every
> major newspaper in the land? Lot's of publicity, low risk. That is the nature
> of politics, its not corrupt but it lacks vision which is why Government is
> particularly bad at micro managing industrial processes.
My dictionary definition of corrupt is `morally depraved' which sums
up that lot pretty accurately IMO. The whole point of being a
politician is to take a moral stance on issues yet hardly any of them
do that - that's corrupt.
The government is obsessed with micro-management because they trust
everybody else as much as they trust themselves. ie. not at all.
The funniest remark I heard was by the health secretary describing the
benefits of tax rises:
`We're going to give the NHS huge resources and it's not going to be
wasted because it's going to be audited by an independent committee
who's members aren't going to be appointed by the government but...by
My questions: Who appoints the committee members of the committee that
appoints the committee members of the committee that oversees the
health spending and who's paying for the committees? Do we have these
committees for just the country at large or should we have them at the
local level too and perhaps regional and also Scotland and Wales...and...
Oh sh*t, there goes our tax rise....
Tel: 01423 323019
PGP keyID: 0xC0B341A3
Q: How many IBM types does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Fifteen. One to do it, and fourteen to write document number
GC7500439-0001, Multitasking Incandescent Source System Facility,
of which 10% of the pages state only "This page intentionally
left blank", and 20% of the definitions are of the form "A:.....
consists of sequences of non-blank characters separated by blanks".
Having just undergone last week a little pain getting LTSP running on SuSE
8.0, it turns out I should have waited a few days. Jim McQuillan announced
yesterday that the latest version of LTSP now supports Redhat 7.3, Mandrake
8.2 and Suse 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0.