28 Mar
2017
28 Mar
'17
08:32
Hi guys,
I updated my tumbleweed machine today (have not done so in a week or
so?), and got an error, as the Tumbleweed repo for openSUSE:Tools was
no longer existing.
Apparently it is now called ".../openSUSE:/Tools/openSUSE_Factory/"
and builds against openSUSE:Factory/snapshot.
Any reason why this is no longer called Tumbleweed? When adding repos
to my home project I always get a repo called Tumbleweed, that builds
against openSUSE:Factory/snapshot.
I know, technically it is the same, but it is not helping with the
whole factory-or-tumbleweed naming confusion...
Johannes
28 Mar
28 Mar
08:34
On Dienstag, 28. März 2017, 09:32:58 CEST wrote Johannes Kastl:
Hi guys,
I updated my tumbleweed machine today (have not done so in a week or
so?), and got an error, as the Tumbleweed repo for openSUSE:Tools was
no longer existing.
Apparently it is now called ".../openSUSE:/Tools/openSUSE_Factory/"
and builds against openSUSE:Factory/snapshot.
it existed with that name since the beginning.
Any reason why this is no longer called Tumbleweed?
When adding repos
to my home project I always get a repo called Tumbleweed, that builds
against openSUSE:Factory/snapshot.
someone created that for some time, but I did not want to have double
builds, so I dropped the newer one again.
--
Adrian Schroeter
email: adrian(a)suse.de
SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG
Nürnberg)
Maxfeldstraße 5
90409 Nürnberg
Germany
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08:36
On 28.03.17 09:34 Adrian Schröter wrote:
I would have preferred to have it named tumbleweed, to avoid the
confusion, but I understand building twice is kind of superfluous...
Thanks for clarifying.
Johannes
On Dienstag, 28. März 2017, 09:32:58 CEST wrote
Johannes Kastl:
Any reason why
this is no longer called Tumbleweed? When adding
repos to my home project I always get a repo called Tumbleweed,
that builds against openSUSE:Factory/snapshot.
someone created that for some time, but I did not want to have
double builds, so I dropped the newer one again. 
08:50
On Tuesday 2017-03-28 09:36, Johannes Kastl wrote:
On 28.03.17 09:34 Adrian Schröter wrote:
I would have preferred to have it named tumbleweed, to avoid the
confusion, but I understand building twice is kind of superfluous...
Can't you just use an _aggregate if you really want to have
both "Tumbleweed" and "Factory"? Saves the rebuild..
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On Dienstag, 28. März 2017, 09:32:58 CEST wrote
Johannes Kastl:
Any
reason why this is no longer called Tumbleweed? When adding
repos to my home project I always get a repo called Tumbleweed,
that builds against openSUSE:Factory/snapshot.
someone created that for some time, but I did not want to have
double builds, so I dropped the newer one again.
08:55
On Dienstag, 28. März 2017, 09:50:38 CEST wrote Jan Engelhardt:
On Tuesday 2017-03-28 09:36, Johannes Kastl wrote:
aggregates are evil and leads just to more problems and the same disk waste.
I would configure a redirection if we would really need a hack.
But given that this repo is away since quite some time already without a big
problem, I won't do hacks here...
--
Adrian Schroeter
email: adrian(a)suse.de
SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG
Nürnberg)
Maxfeldstraße 5
90409 Nürnberg
Germany
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On 28.03.17 09:34 Adrian Schröter wrote:
I would have preferred to have it named tumbleweed, to avoid the
confusion, but I understand building twice is kind of superfluous...
Can't you just use an _aggregate if you really want to have
both "Tumbleweed" and "Factory"? Saves the rebuild.. On Dienstag, 28. März 2017, 09:32:58 CEST wrote
Johannes Kastl:
Any
reason why this is no longer called Tumbleweed? When adding
repos to my home project I always get a repo called Tumbleweed,
that builds against openSUSE:Factory/snapshot.
someone created that for some time, but I did not want to have
double builds, so I dropped the newer one again. 
13:17
* Adrian Schröter <adrian(a)suse.de> [03-28-17 03:56]:
On Dienstag, 28. März 2017, 09:50:38 CEST wrote Jan
Engelhardt:
re: "without a big problem", some or most of us silently dealt with the
change. The problem is that factory is not always the same as Tw even
though they are advertized as so.
If.. a factory repo is supposed to equate to Tumbleweed, why not call it
Tw and thost factory repos that are more testing/staging grounds remain
with factory labels. The factory/Tw situation is confusing, in that *if*
factory equals Tw, why not call it all factory or tw, or at least install
redirection that defines Tw apart from factory?
--
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On Tuesday 2017-03-28 09:36, Johannes Kastl
wrote:
aggregates are evil and leads just to more problems and the same disk waste.
I would configure a redirection if we would really need a hack.
But given that this repo is away since quite some time already without a big
problem, I won't do hacks here... On 28.03.17 09:34 Adrian Schröter wrote:
Can't you just use an _aggregate if you really want to have
both "Tumbleweed" and "Factory"? Saves the rebuild.. On Dienstag, 28. März 2017, 09:32:58 CEST wrote
Johannes Kastl:
> Any reason why this is no longer called
Tumbleweed? When adding
> repos to my home project I always get a repo called Tumbleweed,
> that builds against openSUSE:Factory/snapshot.
someone created that for some time, but I did not want to have
double builds, so I dropped the newer one again.
I would have preferred to have it named tumbleweed, to avoid the
confusion, but I understand building twice is kind of superfluous...
20:25
On 28.03.17 14:17 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
If.. a factory repo is supposed to equate to
Tumbleweed, why not
call it Tw and thost factory repos that are more testing/staging
grounds remain with factory labels. The factory/Tw situation is
confusing, in that *if* factory equals Tw, why not call it all
factory or tw, or at least install redirection that defines Tw
apart from factory?
Exactly what I was trying to point out.
Johannes
20:40
On mardi, 28 mars 2017 21.25:41 h CEST Johannes Kastl wrote:
On 28.03.17 14:17 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
But then what kind of software are here which are not present in TW almost the
week after ?
Normally the repo should only serve as -devel things ...
;-)
--
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Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch
Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship
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If.. a factory repo is supposed to equate to
Tumbleweed, why not
call it Tw and thost factory repos that are more testing/staging
grounds remain with factory labels. The factory/Tw situation is
confusing, in that *if* factory equals Tw, why not call it all
factory or tw, or at least install redirection that defines Tw
apart from factory?
Exactly what I was trying to point out.
Johannes
21:19
* Bruno Friedmann <bruno(a)ioda-net.ch> [03-28-17 15:42]:
On mardi, 28 mars 2017 21.25:41 h CEST Johannes Kastl
wrote:
yes, the "factory" repo, but then
factory != Tumbleweed
Tw may be a bastard son but ....
--
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On 28.03.17 14:17 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
But then what kind of software are here which are not present in TW almost the
week after ?
Normally the repo should only serve as -devel things ... If.. a factory repo is supposed to equate to
Tumbleweed, why not
call it Tw and thost factory repos that are more testing/staging
grounds remain with factory labels. The factory/Tw situation is
confusing, in that *if* factory equals Tw, why not call it all
factory or tw, or at least install redirection that defines Tw
apart from factory?
Exactly what I was trying to point out.
Johannes 
21:41
ti., 28.03.2017 kl. 16.19 -0400, skrev Patrick Shanahan:
yes, the "factory" repo, but then
factory != Tumbleweed
Tw may be a bastard son but ....
From:
----
https://build.opensuse.org/project/meta/openSUSE:Tools
<repository name="openSUSE_Factory">
<path project="openSUSE:Factory" repository="snapshot"/>
<arch>i586</arch>
<arch>x86_64</arch>
</repository>
----
Note the <path project="openSUSE:Factory"
repository="snapshot"/>
That means it IS Tumbleweed (or built against currently published
"Tumbleweed" to be correct).
Had it said
---
<repository name="openSUSE_Factory">
<path
project="openSUSE:Factory" repository="standard"/>
<arch>i586</arch>
<arch>x86_64</arch>
</repository>
------
It would have been Factory.
//Bjørn
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21:48
* Bjørn Lie <zaitor(a)opensuse.org> [03-28-17 16:43]:
ti., 28.03.2017 kl. 16.19 -0400, skrev Patrick
Shanahan:
In Other Words:
tumbleweed is NOT factory, but may be. Clear as a bell.
I do understand, but it is not clear to most.
--
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yes, the "factory" repo, but then
factory != Tumbleweed
Tw may be a bastard son but ....
From:
----
https://build.opensuse.org/project/meta/openSUSE:Tools
<repository name="openSUSE_Factory">
<path project="openSUSE:Factory" repository="snapshot"/>
<arch>i586</arch>
<arch>x86_64</arch>
</repository>
----
Note the <path project="openSUSE:Factory"
repository="snapshot"/>
That means it IS Tumbleweed (or built against currently published
"Tumbleweed" to be correct).
Had it said
---
<repository name="openSUSE_Factory">
<path
project="openSUSE:Factory" repository="standard"/>
<arch>i586</arch>
<arch>x86_64</arch>
</repository>
------
It would have been Factory.
22:12
ti., 28.03.2017 kl. 16.48 -0400, skrev Patrick Shanahan:
In Other Words:
tumbleweed is NOT factory, but may be. Clear as a bell.
I do understand, but it is not clear to most.
https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Factory_development_model
No Tumbleweed IS Factory, but only after it has been through openQA and
then published as a "snapshot".
We do not publish Factory anymore for users to install from, but it
available for devel repos to build against.
//Bjørn
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22:21
* Bjørn Lie <zaitor(a)opensuse.org> [03-28-17 17:14]:
ti., 28.03.2017 kl. 16.48 -0400, skrev Patrick
Shanahan:
this is becomming //bikeshed//, but
to make it clear to everyone:
tumbleweed == factory:snapshot
tumbleweed != factory:standard
but tumbleweed = factory is a *different* meaning.
tw is a "qualified" factory.
a tw user who does not understand the differenct will/can break his system
using factory:standard packages
--
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In Other Words:
tumbleweed is NOT factory, but may be. Clear as a bell.
I do understand, but it is not clear to most.
https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Factory_development_model
No Tumbleweed IS Factory, but only after it has been through openQA and
then published as a "snapshot".
We do not publish Factory anymore for users to install from, but it
available for devel repos to build against.
22:58
ti., 28.03.2017 kl. 17.21 -0400, skrev Patrick Shanahan:
this is becomming //bikeshed//, but
to make it clear to everyone:
tumbleweed == factory:snapshot
tumbleweed != factory:standard
Yes, a very nice short (and correct) explanation.
but tumbleweed = factory is a *different* meaning.
tw is a "qualified" factory.
a tw user who does not understand the differenct will/can break his system
using factory:standard packages
That might happen yes.
However in the case of openSUSE:Tools it will not apply, since we know
it builds against snapshot.
The real issue is that users for whatever reason seem to think they
need to add massive amounts of devel repos to their TW install, just
because they can, and having repos named Tumbleweed seem to encourage
them to do this even more.
In my opinion discouraging this is a "good thing", but if users insists
on making problems for themselves, there is not much we can do.
Devel repos are (mainly) for development, and can and will break end-
users systems at various times unless they are careful with what they
install from them, no matter if they are named Factory, Tumbleweed or
"Super stable repo".
//Bjørn
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29 Mar
29 Mar
07:42
On 28.03.17 22:41 Bjørn Lie wrote:
Note the <path project="openSUSE:Factory"
repository="snapshot"/>
That means it IS Tumbleweed (or built against currently published
"Tumbleweed" to be correct).
For the sake of clarity to end users this repo should IMHO be called
openSUSE_Tumbleweed. This is confusing even to regulars like Patrick,
and it's even worse to less experienced users.
Johannes
08:03
Am Wed, 29 Mar 2017 08:42:41 +0200
schrieb Johannes Kastl <mail(a)ojkastl.de>de>:
On 28.03.17 22:41 Bjørn Lie wrote:
So much agreed!
+2
Detlef
Note the <path
project="openSUSE:Factory" repository="snapshot"/>
That means it IS Tumbleweed (or built against currently published
"Tumbleweed" to be correct).
For the sake of clarity to end users this repo should IMHO be called
openSUSE_Tumbleweed. This is confusing even to regulars like Patrick,
and it's even worse to less experienced users.
Johannes
28 Mar
28 Mar
20:57
On mardi, 28 mars 2017 09.34:30 h CEST Adrian Schröter wrote:
On Dienstag, 28. März 2017, 09:32:58 CEST wrote
Johannes Kastl:
About double build, perhaps, this repo should also cleanup obsolete
distribution really openSUSE 11.4 to 13.1 SLE_11_SP3 :-)
I guess also a number of oldies in the Xubuntu, Fedora, Debian world ...
--
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Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship
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irc: tigerfoot
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Hi guys,
I updated my tumbleweed machine today (have not done so in a week or
so?), and got an error, as the Tumbleweed repo for openSUSE:Tools was
no longer existing.
Apparently it is now called ".../openSUSE:/Tools/openSUSE_Factory/"
and builds against openSUSE:Factory/snapshot.
it existed with that name since the beginning.
Any reason why this is no longer called
Tumbleweed? When adding repos
to my home project I always get a repo called Tumbleweed, that builds
against openSUSE:Factory/snapshot.
someone created that for some time, but I did not want to have double
builds, so I dropped the newer one again.
1486
days inactive
1487
days old
buildservice@lists.opensuse.org
16 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Adrian Schröter -
Bjørn Lie -
Bruno Friedmann -
Detlef Steuer -
Jan Engelhardt -
Johannes Kastl -
Patrick Shanahan