original poster here again ... sort of embarrassed that I JUST REMEMBERED that I did not test a fresh user account (vs the one I have been on since the install maybe a year and 1/2 ago) ... anyway fresh user account ... added it to the same groups my normal user account is in ... same issue persists ... no chance ... I thought if some config file got messed up in "Home" (directory) ... then maybe it could be pinpointed