[opensuse-artwork] Request
Planing for a Revolution Working on design for the openSUSE project is indeed a hard thing to do. I am not a Novell or openSUSE employee. I do what I do with my free time, which will be drastically reduced soon, because the school year is starting at the end of the month. I am hoping to keep posting as often as I am currently doing it and finding those things that are little, and can be changed for a better openSUSE. Because I will have less time to work on this, I need to focus my energy and think more practically. I need to make something happen and work it out. This is the reason why I got in touch with Jos Portvliet from openSUSE. We have been talking recently about how to make some of my ideas become a reality. His input is pretty valuable to me. It is, I think, the first time someone from all the way up there in openSUSE has shown willingness to work through some of these ideas. Jos thinks that the Revolution ideas are good but they need to be focused; and I agree. We came up with a plan to have some things changed. But here I am officially looking out for help from designers that work on the openSUSE project. Sorry about this, but I am looking for people who are designers, highly critical of openSUSE's current layout design as well as their theming. Why? because the all-inclusive nature of Linux communities appeals to a great variety of people. All of them can give us an opinion, very valid too, but not all the time specific. A lot of times, all we get is rant, disagreement, but no solutions. Right now, with this project I am looking for people who know about development and design because the openSUSE/KDE desktop also needs creative solutions. So here is a rundown of a simple idea expressed in plan form: Objective. To make openSUSE a Linux distribution more friendly to novice users and adopters by creating a customized graphical user interface based on KDE but with different graphical elements than any other Linux distribution. This will make openSUSE visualy recognizable and branded to a higher level than it currently is. Analysis Form a designers team. We will: Revise openSUSE graphical stance. Point out design improvement areas. Create Strategy for New Look. Propose strategy to openSUSE community. Design Decisions Work on reduction, simplicity, automatization and layout design. Gather the most relevant design complaints from designers team. Work on the top 3 design changes for the next release of openSUSE. Gather programmers and propose new design ideas. Implement other 7 suggestions for upcoming releases. What we will do: New KDE plasma style and arrangement (plasma style, desktop widgets, wallpapers, etc) Kickoff's redesign What do you think? Who wants to join me? If you are serious about this, please send me an email and we will figure out how we will work together and make these things happen. This plan is not perfect and if you have great input to share on it, please do. Let's be a team. We can do it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
Tirsdag den 17. august 2010 20:32:15 skrev Andy:
What do you think? Who wants to join me? If you are serious about this, please send me an email and we will figure out how we will work together and make these things happen.
This plan is not perfect and if you have great input to share on it, please do. Let's be a team. We can do it.
Sorry for being the party pooper, but a few things strike me. A lot of what you suggest, seems to go beyond just artwork, and requiring quite a bit of development. You seem to overestimate the man-power available in the openSUSE project. There's an on-going discussion about the future strategy for openSUSE. The outcome of these discussions should be awaited before making any big decisions for the future. If you have ideas to improve KDE add them here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:KDE_ideas But if you suggest big, work-intensive things, don't get your hopes up, unless you are able and willing to do the work yourself. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
Hello Martin, Andy and the others of course too first Martin u are not the only one displeased, but thank u that he heard it again from u. So now the rest. Andy ur problem is the different understanding of TEAM, Team means definitly not, we are ur artwork slaves. But thats what u try to make with us. I had this morning little with Jos after I telled him from the logfiles what said in artwork channel from the beginning on, and now he have an other view on u. So now I am telling it all. Andy joined first time the artwork channel in January as I begun to form the art-team, he was interested to join and we welcome him. Then he missed all meetings, ok he isnt the only one and that acceptable, since February he wasnt seen anymore in ther artwork channel. In June he joined again, thats just the time he planned his "revolution", most of his visits was really short put in a url to his blog get no feedback get out. Its normal he live other side of the world. One day he get mrfoxdog, and he gave him some feedback. After the feedback Andy tried to make happen that mrfoxdog makes the graphics for his "revolutional" idea. He not said can u help me, I am not got with doing graphics or can u help me starting that no he pointed on him and say make the graphic. Of course mrfoxdog reacted like all we would it do, never heard his question. Then he joined again and pasted again new URLs to his blog, of course no one reacted, this day he did a new thing I replayed his pastes, and I said to him that brings nothing to past it again on this way. And he said there could be someone new to the channel. I am definitly no lovley boy who does a lot of hugs, but he looked for me like a Rumpelstilzchen furious stepping and dancing he declared he have already become more feedback as from us. Andy I am very sure, that that feedback not was given in boosters channel, no problem I have a log if it can always look ;) U know why I have log I am already in there! And I am very sure that when u have talked to booster Will, Henne, Pavol, Vuntz or Klaas they would have talk with javier or me to integrate u in the art-team. So looking in ur comments self u declared u cant work with art-team because we have no time, thats funny really. And u forget Jos did comment himself to ur blog today. Read it very well and understand what it means, to make only blogposts dont make things happen. U need graphics for doing it, where is the problem learn to do it. And of course all of us will help u to learn and make some pieces in ur work. But what we definitly not do, to wait that something comes out of ur mind so that we can drawing for u! At last but not least, I wrote u yesterday a mail to try not to create a second art-team and u answered to it and last sentence was "If you have the time and the skills (which I am sure you have, since I have seen some of your work) please join me." I am definitly not join u, u can join us!!! So when u read well u see the offer u cant take it or leave it. Thats up2u br gnokii
Tirsdag den 17. august 2010 20:32:15 skrev Andy:
What do you think? Who wants to join me? If you are serious about this, please send me an email and we will figure out how we will work together and make these things happen.
This plan is not perfect and if you have great input to share on it, please do. Let's be a team. We can do it.
Sorry for being the party pooper, but a few things strike me.
A lot of what you suggest, seems to go beyond just artwork, and requiring quite a bit of development.
You seem to overestimate the man-power available in the openSUSE project.
There's an on-going discussion about the future strategy for openSUSE. The outcome of these discussions should be awaited before making any big decisions for the future.
If you have ideas to improve KDE add them here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:KDE_ideas
But if you suggest big, work-intensive things, don't get your hopes up, unless you are able and willing to do the work yourself.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 1:54 PM, S.Kemter <buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de> wrote:
Hello Martin, Andy and the others of course too
first Martin u are not the only one displeased, but thank u that he heard it again from u.
So now the rest. Andy ur problem is the different understanding of TEAM, Team means definitly not, we are ur artwork slaves.
Never have I mentioned this. I do not know how you get the impression that you would be "working under me." Definitively not my perspective.
But thats what u try to make with us. I had this morning little with Jos after I telled him from the logfiles what said in artwork channel from the beginning on, and now he have an other view on u.
Interesting. so now you are an investigator discoverin some "dark past" of one of your members. You could probably use that time for something else, why? because there are very valid reasons why I joined the artwork team.
So now I am telling it all. Andy joined first time the artwork channel in January as I begun to form the art-team, he was interested to join and we welcome him.
Then he missed all meetings, ok he isnt the only one and that acceptable, since February he wasnt seen anymore in ther artwork channel.
I missed the meetings because the time slots that were available meant that I had to wake up at 5 am to join the meeting. I am a college student that works until 1:30 am everyday. Instead, I chose to read the logs and find out what the team was doing. Never did I get any assignments or things of that nature, so I felt that my presence at the meetings was ineffective. I decided to limit my participation to reading logs and emails.
From what I remember, the meetings at that time were focused on things being done for upcoming releases of openSUSE. Like finding new wallpapers and fixing missing icons. Obviously something that I can't do since I explained at the very beginning that I was a conceptual artist. I do brainstorming not much more than that. My ventures on the graphical world are generally very displeasing to me, and this is one of the reasons I keep artwork at a basic level. If someone feels that it would be good to change the conceptual artwork that I do, he is welcome and encouraged to do so.
In June he joined again, thats just the time he planned his "revolution", most of his visits was really short put in a url to his blog get no feedback get out. Its normal he live other side of the world.
I wanted to see if there was aproval to some of the concepts I was starting to blog about. Probably you see this as some sort of sin. But to me is rather something to get an understanding of the type of artwork community that openSUSE has.
One day he get mrfoxdog, and he gave him some feedback. After the feedback Andy tried to make happen that mrfoxdog makes the graphics for his "revolutional" idea. He not said can u help me, I am not got with doing graphics or can u help me starting that no he pointed on him and say make the graphic. Of course mrfoxdog reacted like all we would it do, never heard his question.
I asked politely if he would be willing to "fix" them because I always felt that they were not good graphics. If it is a request, people can say yes or no to it. I think that in no instance did I "force" anyone to "enslave" himself to me.
Then he joined again and pasted again new URLs to his blog, of course no one reacted, this day he did a new thing I replayed his pastes, and I said to him that brings nothing to past it again on this way. And he said there could be someone new to the channel. I am definitly no lovley boy who does a lot of hugs, but he looked for me like a Rumpelstilzchen furious stepping and dancing he declared he have already become more feedback as from us.
Of course, I do not keep all the logs on IRC neither do I know how the people of #opensuse-artwork keep their logs. So I reposted in hopes that the people who were not there before would give the feedback that I needed. Some people from boosters and artwork teams were very helpful in telling me about the things that needed to change with my design. I am grateful to them because they are concerned with the state in which openSUSE is in right now.
Andy I am very sure, that that feedback not was given in boosters channel, no problem I have a log if it can always look ;) U know why I have log I am already in there!
If you are trying to say that I am liar, be my guest. I am sure that there are more professional people around that can deal less with controversy and more with design, which is what brought me here in the first place.
And I am very sure that when u have talked to booster Will, Henne, Pavol, Vuntz or Klaas they would have talk with javier or me to integrate u in the art-team.
They had no need because I was part of it already. Never did they mention do such a thing. At the same time, my comments were so small that I am sure that in the end they became irrelevant to what boosters actually do.
So looking in ur comments self u declared u cant work with art-team because we have no time, thats funny rehttp://www.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-9300639326172081%3Ad9bbzbtli15&ie=UTF-8&sa=Search&q=&hl=enally.
It might be funny, sure. But this is what a few people from artwork and people from KDE told me. Maybe you are trying to say that I am wrong and that the artwork team "does" have the time to do this. Then, help me. It would be the natural thing to do. And u forget Jos did
comment himself to ur blog today. Read it very well and understand what it means, to make only blogposts dont make things happen. U need graphics for doing it, where is the problem learn to do it. And of course all of us will help u to learn and make some pieces in ur work. But what we definitly not do, to wait that something comes out of ur mind so that we can drawing for u!
Never was this my intention. I am asking people to "join" me, not work for me.
At last but not least, I wrote u yesterday a mail to try not to create a second art-team and u answered to it and last sentence was "If you have the time and the skills (which I am sure you have, since I have seen some of your work) please join me." I am definitly not join u, u can join us!!!
I am part of you. In the email I also mentioned that it is not my intention either, to create a second artwork team. I am not trying to take over anyone's responsibility either. However, true as that may be, there is a fact that you can't change, and it is the fact that all the people who use openSUSE around the world, are looking at the artwork coming from it. Every day, all day long. To some, the artwork might be irrelevant, but to others like me, it becomes an important part of what openSUSE is. I have to deal with the design that kde people and openSUSE people make. If it is not good, I am not going to like it, if I don't like, I will talk about it. But I want to go further, I want to make things different. This is why I blog about it and why I try to contact people from openSUSE to know what they think of the ideas.
So when u read well u see the offer u cant take it or leave it. Thats up2u
I did read what Jos put on my blog. I have to say that I am sorry that your report only blurs my design intentions. Jos understood very well from the beginning of my ideas that it was my opinion that we should create conceptual artwork for the openSUSE team to take into account and then code it if they felt that those ideas were good. That was the purpose of the team I want to form and he knew this. But after your magical appearance, he thinks that it is better that I do things on my own. That I post things on the build service, when I do not even know how to program. I repeat, I do brainstorming. this is the reason why I will always need help. Because I can't code, I can only think about different designs. Please gnokii, do not focus your energy on this meaningless discussion. Let's focus on what's important, and that is the future of openSUSE. Particularly, on its future in the graphical environment. PS: are you using google translator for this email? I did not understand everything you wrote. If I missed something, please explain.
br gnokii
Tirsdag den 17. august 2010 20:32:15 skrev Andy:
What do you think? Who wants to join me? If you are serious about this, please send me an email and we will figure out how we will work together and make these things happen.
This plan is not perfect and if you have great input to share on it, please do. Let's be a team. We can do it.
Sorry for being the party pooper, but a few things strike me.
A lot of what you suggest, seems to go beyond just artwork, and requiring quite a bit of development.
You seem to overestimate the man-power available in the openSUSE project.
There's an on-going discussion about the future strategy for openSUSE. The outcome of these discussions should be awaited before making any big decisions for the future.
If you have ideas to improve KDE add them here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:KDE_ideas
But if you suggest big, work-intensive things, don't get your hopes up, unless you are able and willing to do the work yourself.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
Thanks for your efforts in making openSUSE greater and better. Andy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
Hello, u missed completly the point, telling my I wast time. Yes I did, I wasted time to give u a chance. Instead of joining an begin to work, u telling stories. U are an storyteller nothing more. Sorry my last mail for that topic. I wish u find that for what u search br gnokii
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 1:54 PM, S.Kemter <buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de> wrote:
Hello Martin, Andy and the others of course too
first Martin u are not the only one displeased, but thank u that he heard it again from u.
So now the rest. Andy ur problem is the different understanding of TEAM, Team means definitly not, we are ur artwork slaves.
Never have I mentioned this. I do not know how you get the impression that you would be "working under me." Definitively not my perspective.
But thats what u try to make with us. I had this morning little with Jos after I telled him from the logfiles what said in artwork channel from the beginning on, and now he have an other view on u.
Interesting. so now you are an investigator discoverin some "dark past" of one of your members. You could probably use that time for something else, why? because there are very valid reasons why I joined the artwork team.
So now I am telling it all. Andy joined first time the artwork channel in January as I begun to form the art-team, he was interested to join and we welcome him.
Then he missed all meetings, ok he isnt the only one and that acceptable, since February he wasnt seen anymore in ther artwork channel.
I missed the meetings because the time slots that were available meant that I had to wake up at 5 am to join the meeting. I am a college student that works until 1:30 am everyday. Instead, I chose to read the logs and find out what the team was doing. Never did I get any assignments or things of that nature, so I felt that my presence at the meetings was ineffective. I decided to limit my participation to reading logs and emails.
From what I remember, the meetings at that time were focused on things being done for upcoming releases of openSUSE. Like finding new wallpapers and fixing missing icons. Obviously something that I can't do since I explained at the very beginning that I was a conceptual artist. I do brainstorming not much more than that. My ventures on the graphical world are generally very displeasing to me, and this is one of the reasons I keep artwork at a basic level. If someone feels that it would be good to change the conceptual artwork that I do, he is welcome and encouraged to do so.
In June he joined again, thats just the time he planned his "revolution", most of his visits was really short put in a url to his blog get no feedback get out. Its normal he live other side of the world.
I wanted to see if there was aproval to some of the concepts I was starting to blog about. Probably you see this as some sort of sin. But to me is rather something to get an understanding of the type of artwork community that openSUSE has.
One day he get mrfoxdog, and he gave him some feedback. After the feedback Andy tried to make happen that mrfoxdog makes the graphics for his "revolutional" idea. He not said can u help me, I am not got with doing graphics or can u help me starting that no he pointed on him and say make the graphic. Of course mrfoxdog reacted like all we would it do, never heard his question.
I asked politely if he would be willing to "fix" them because I always felt that they were not good graphics. If it is a request, people can say yes or no to it. I think that in no instance did I "force" anyone to "enslave" himself to me.
Then he joined again and pasted again new URLs to his blog, of course no one reacted, this day he did a new thing I replayed his pastes, and I said to him that brings nothing to past it again on this way. And he said there could be someone new to the channel. I am definitly no lovley boy who does a lot of hugs, but he looked for me like a Rumpelstilzchen furious stepping and dancing he declared he have already become more feedback as from us.
Of course, I do not keep all the logs on IRC neither do I know how the people of #opensuse-artwork keep their logs. So I reposted in hopes that the people who were not there before would give the feedback that I needed.
Some people from boosters and artwork teams were very helpful in telling me about the things that needed to change with my design. I am grateful to them because they are concerned with the state in which openSUSE is in right now.
Andy I am very sure, that that feedback not was given in boosters channel, no problem I have a log if it can always look ;) U know why I have log I am already in there!
If you are trying to say that I am liar, be my guest. I am sure that there are more professional people around that can deal less with controversy and more with design, which is what brought me here in the first place.
And I am very sure that when u have talked to booster Will, Henne, Pavol, Vuntz or Klaas they would have talk with javier or me to integrate u in the art-team.
They had no need because I was part of it already. Never did they mention do such a thing. At the same time, my comments were so small that I am sure that in the end they became irrelevant to what boosters actually do.
So looking in ur comments self u declared u cant work with art-team because we have no time, thats funny rehttp://www.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-9300639326172081%3Ad9bbzbtli15&ie=UTF-8&sa=Search&q=&hl=enally.
It might be funny, sure. But this is what a few people from artwork and people from KDE told me. Maybe you are trying to say that I am wrong and that the artwork team "does" have the time to do this. Then, help me. It would be the natural thing to do.
And u forget Jos did
comment himself to ur blog today. Read it very well and understand what it means, to make only blogposts dont make things happen. U need graphics for doing it, where is the problem learn to do it. And of course all of us will help u to learn and make some pieces in ur work. But what we definitly not do, to wait that something comes out of ur mind so that we can drawing for u!
Never was this my intention. I am asking people to "join" me, not work for me.
At last but not least, I wrote u yesterday a mail to try not to create a second art-team and u answered to it and last sentence was "If you have the time and the skills (which I am sure you have, since I have seen some of your work) please join me." I am definitly not join u, u can join us!!!
I am part of you. In the email I also mentioned that it is not my intention either, to create a second artwork team. I am not trying to take over anyone's responsibility either. However, true as that may be, there is a fact that you can't change, and it is the fact that all the people who use openSUSE around the world, are looking at the artwork coming from it. Every day, all day long. To some, the artwork might be irrelevant, but to others like me, it becomes an important part of what openSUSE is. I have to deal with the design that kde people and openSUSE people make. If it is not good, I am not going to like it, if I don't like, I will talk about it. But I want to go further, I want to make things different. This is why I blog about it and why I try to contact people from openSUSE to know what they think of the ideas.
So when u read well u see the offer u cant take it or leave it. Thats up2u
I did read what Jos put on my blog. I have to say that I am sorry that your report only blurs my design intentions. Jos understood very well from the beginning of my ideas that it was my opinion that we should create conceptual artwork for the openSUSE team to take into account and then code it if they felt that those ideas were good. That was the purpose of the team I want to form and he knew this. But after your magical appearance, he thinks that it is better that I do things on my own. That I post things on the build service, when I do not even know how to program.
I repeat, I do brainstorming. this is the reason why I will always need help. Because I can't code, I can only think about different designs.
Please gnokii, do not focus your energy on this meaningless discussion. Let's focus on what's important, and that is the future of openSUSE. Particularly, on its future in the graphical environment.
PS: are you using google translator for this email? I did not understand everything you wrote. If I missed something, please explain.
br gnokii
Tirsdag den 17. august 2010 20:32:15 skrev Andy:
What do you think? Who wants to join me? If you are serious about this, please send me an email and we will figure out how we will work together and make these things happen.
This plan is not perfect and if you have great input to share on it, please do. Let's be a team. We can do it.
Sorry for being the party pooper, but a few things strike me.
A lot of what you suggest, seems to go beyond just artwork, and requiring quite a bit of development.
You seem to overestimate the man-power available in the openSUSE project.
There's an on-going discussion about the future strategy for openSUSE. The outcome of these discussions should be awaited before making any big decisions for the future.
If you have ideas to improve KDE add them here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:KDE_ideas
But if you suggest big, work-intensive things, don't get your hopes up, unless you are able and willing to do the work yourself.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
Thanks for your efforts in making openSUSE greater and better.
Andy
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
Andy, I found now your blogs at http://anditosan.blogspot.com and found those very interesting. Thanks! I suggest that you start with one area and design it through - and document the concept. Best thing would be something where you don't need developer work and could do it on your own, Sirko, I think you missed a lot in your reply, let me just point out one thing: Andy works differently than you do. Your email is destructive and I do not like the tone of it at all. A valid point that Andy raised is that we need design decisions for our artwork. Currently, I'm not seeing anywhere documented what kind of design paradigma openSUSE folllows as a guideline for new artwork, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
participants (4)
-
Andreas Jaeger -
Andy -
Martin Schlander -
S.Kemter