Re: [suse-amd64] Random lockups/freezes when running 64-bit SUSE 9.3
On Wednesday 27 April 2005 13:04, you wrote:
Valur Olafsson wrote:
Hello all,
Before going into the problem at hand let me say that my desktop computer was working as it should running SUSE 9.2, which was installed on the machine before I upgraded to SUSE 9.3.
Now to the problem. As the title indicates I have been experiencing lockups after upgrading my AMD64 desktop machine to 64-bit SUSE 9.3. This all started when I wanted to configure my USB Linksys wireless card (WUSB11 v2.8) on my desktop. I needed to configure it to access the internet. So, like I did when I installed SUSE 9.2 in the past, I installed the wireless-tools and atmel-firmware rpms, and plugged the WUSB11 into a USB port on my desktop. Using 'dmesg' I saw that the atmel firmware got uploaded to the WUSB11. So the system recognized the WUSB11 as it had done when I was running 9.2. Then I went into the network module in Yast2 and setup the wireless connection. After that I needed to unplug and plug the WUSB11 to get it to start to connect to my router, but as it was about the get an IP from my router the computer froze.
At first I did not know what the problem was, so I tried to install different versions of the atmel-firmware rpm, both the one that came with 9.2 (and had worked previously) and the most recent one from the homepage of the atmel-firmware project. Still the computer froze when the WUSB11 was about to get an IP from my router. Next I thought that maybe the dhcp client on SUSE 9.3 was to blame so I hardwired a particular IP to WUSB11 when setting up the connection in the network module in Yast2 to bypass it. This did the trick, I was finally able to get online, without the machine locking up. This is currently the only way I know how to get the computer online using the WUSB11.
This however was to be a short victory, since about a half an hour after getting online for the first time, while surfing the net, the computer locked up again. This time, I was not doing anything specific, just browsing the web through the wireless connection. I thought that maybe this was a one off thing, but this has happened multiple times after that incident.
As I said in the first paragraph, everything was working well when running SUSE 9.2 on the same hardware and using the same WUSB11 device to access the internet. Also, the machine is a dual boot machine, and everything is working fine in windows.
So what would be my next steps in debugging this problem. Currently, I have no idea what is causing the lockups, or why even the dhcp should be causing lockups when I'm not bypassing that by hardwiring the IP. Any suggestions to logs or something of that sort that I should be looking at are welcome, 'cause I sure as hell don't know what should be my next steps.
Regards, Valur Olafsson
I had even worse problems with a Belkin F5D6050 usb adapter. The adapter was recognised as "wlan0" device. However, whenever I tried to connect to the wirless network my entire system would freeze, forcing me to hard boot the PC. My solution was to delete the wireless drivers provided by SuSE located in the /lib/modules directory and to compile the drivers from source.
My suggestion would be that you try this approach, if you can find the source code for the the drivers.
Sudhir
Are you talking about the source that comes when you install the km_wlan rpm that comes with suse 9.3. If so, then that is just what I did, that is, I deleted the wireless drivers in /lib/modules and compiled the drivers from source that came from the km_wlan rpm. Did you maybe find some other source for the drivers that worked for you? I ask, because I believe that our USB adapters have the same atmel chipset. My adapter uses the at76c503 (at76c505_rfmd2958 to be more specific) kernel module. Anyway, after the recompile, I still need to hardwire the IP number for the adapter when I am setting it up in the network module in Yast2. But, so far, I've had no lockups and thus no hard reboots needed to fix that. Thanks for all the help, Valur
On Wednesday 27 April 2005 13:04, you wrote:
Valur Olafsson wrote:
Hello all,
Before going into the problem at hand let me say that my desktop computer was working as it should running SUSE 9.2, which was installed on the machine before I upgraded to SUSE 9.3.
Now to the problem. As the title indicates I have been experiencing lockups after upgrading my AMD64 desktop machine to 64-bit SUSE 9.3. This all started when I wanted to configure my USB Linksys wireless card (WUSB11 v2.8) on my desktop. I needed to configure it to access the internet. So, like I did when I installed SUSE 9.2 in the past, I installed the wireless-tools and atmel-firmware rpms, and plugged the WUSB11 into a USB port on my desktop. Using 'dmesg' I saw that the atmel firmware got uploaded to the WUSB11. So the system recognized the WUSB11 as it had done when I was running 9.2. Then I went into the network module in Yast2 and setup the wireless connection. After that I needed to unplug and plug the WUSB11 to get it to start to connect to my router, but as it was about the get an IP from my router the computer froze.
At first I did not know what the problem was, so I tried to install different versions of the atmel-firmware rpm, both the one that came with 9.2 (and had worked previously) and the most recent one from the homepage of the atmel-firmware project. Still the computer froze when the WUSB11 was about to get an IP from my router. Next I thought that maybe the dhcp client on SUSE 9.3 was to blame so I hardwired a particular IP to WUSB11 when setting up the connection in the network module in Yast2 to bypass it. This did the trick, I was finally able to get online, without the machine locking up. This is currently the only way I know how to get the computer online using the WUSB11.
This however was to be a short victory, since about a half an hour after getting online for the first time, while surfing the net, the computer locked up again. This time, I was not doing anything specific, just browsing the web through the wireless connection. I thought that maybe this was a one off thing, but this has happened multiple times after that incident.
As I said in the first paragraph, everything was working well when running SUSE 9.2 on the same hardware and using the same WUSB11 device to access the internet. Also, the machine is a dual boot machine, and everything is working fine in windows.
So what would be my next steps in debugging this problem. Currently, I have no idea what is causing the lockups, or why even the dhcp should be causing lockups when I'm not bypassing that by hardwiring the IP. Any suggestions to logs or something of that sort that I should be looking at are welcome, 'cause I sure as hell don't know what should be my next steps.
Regards, Valur Olafsson
I had even worse problems with a Belkin F5D6050 usb adapter. The adapter was recognised as "wlan0" device. However, whenever I tried to connect to the wirless network my entire system would freeze, forcing me to hard boot the PC. My solution was to delete the wireless drivers provided by SuSE located in the /lib/modules directory and to compile the drivers from source.
My suggestion would be that you try this approach, if you can find the source code for the the drivers.
Sudhir
Are you talking about the source that comes when you install the km_wlan rpm that comes with suse 9.3. If so, then that is just what I did, that is, I deleted the wireless drivers in /lib/modules and compiled the drivers from source that came from the km_wlan rpm. Did you maybe find some other source for the drivers that worked for you? I ask, because I believe that our USB adapters have the same atmel chipset. My adapter uses the at76c503 (at76c505_rfmd2958 to be more specific) kernel module. Anyway, after the recompile, I still need to hardwire the IP number for the adapter when I am setting it up in the network module in Yast2. But, so far, I've had no lockups and thus no hard reboots needed to fix that.
Thanks for all the help, Valur Spoke too soon, the computer froze not 10 minutes after I emailed the
On Wednesday 27 April 2005 21:02, Valur Olafsson wrote: list. Still have the same problem. Any other suggestions to debug the problem? - Valur
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:20:31 -0400
Valur Olafsson
Spoke too soon, the computer froze not 10 minutes after I emailed the list. Still have the same problem. Any other suggestions to debug the problem?
I have experienced something similar, always while using a browser. This suggests it might be related to the network connection, but it might well be something else. All I can say is that I've been experimenting with a fully 64-bit distribution (as opposed to the mixed 64 and 32-bit that I assume most people have) and I have not experienced the problem at all. On the other hand, the stability might be due to some other difference between the 64-bit distribution (Ubuntu) and Suse. I realise this isn't really very helpful, but it may give you something to think about. - Richard -- Richard Kimber British General Election 2005 http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/area/uk/ge05.htm
On Thursday 28 April 2005 11:28, R Kimber wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:20:31 -0400
Valur Olafsson
wrote: Spoke too soon, the computer froze not 10 minutes after I emailed the list. Still have the same problem. Any other suggestions to debug the problem?
I have experienced something similar, always while using a browser. This suggests it might be related to the network connection, but it might well be something else. All I can say is that I've been experimenting with a fully 64-bit distribution (as opposed to the mixed 64 and 32-bit that I assume most people have) and I have not experienced the problem at all. On the other hand, the stability might be due to some other difference between the 64-bit distribution (Ubuntu) and Suse. I realise this isn't really very helpful, but it may give you something to think about.
- Richard
Thanks for your reply. I've had these lockups even while I'm not using a browser. In fact, yesterday I connected to the internet, then needed to step away from the computer for a bit. When I came back, the computer had locked up and I needed to do a hard reboot. Frankly, I'm not certain if this only a problem due to me connection to the internet with a wireless USB adapter, i.e., driver related, or if this a general problem with the network in SUSE 9.3. But, until this has been resolved, I cannot upgrade my laptop to 9.3, simply because I actually need to do work there. This is less of an issue on my desktop, but it's still forcing me to use Windows XP instead, which I don't like. It's a shame that this problem is in 9.3, since everything else about 9.3 is pretty darn sweet. These hard reboots that I need to do constantly are really starting to bug me, and frankly my patience is starting to wear thin. I would really hate it if I needed to move to a different linux distribution, since I have been a SUSE user since the 7.x versions. Anyway, enough of this doom and gloom. I'm hoping that the next kernel upgrade will magically fix this. Here's hoping. - Valur
-- Richard Kimber British General Election 2005 http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/area/uk/ge05.htm
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:46:33 -0400
Valur Olafsson
Thanks for your reply. I've had these lockups even while I'm not using a browser. In fact, yesterday I connected to the internet, then needed to step away from the computer for a bit. When I came back, the computer had locked up and I needed to do a hard reboot.
What video driver are you using? There is a separate type of freeze that can happen with the nvidia driver in which eveything locks up except the mouse. That can be cured by using the nv driver, or I have read that a 2.6.11 kernel fixes it, but I've not tried that. - Richard -- Richard Kimber British General Election 2005 http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/area/uk/ge05.htm
On Thursday 28 April 2005 13:27, R Kimber wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:46:33 -0400
Valur Olafsson
wrote: Thanks for your reply. I've had these lockups even while I'm not using a browser. In fact, yesterday I connected to the internet, then needed to step away from the computer for a bit. When I came back, the computer had locked up and I needed to do a hard reboot.
What video driver are you using? There is a separate type of freeze that can happen with the nvidia driver in which eveything locks up except the mouse. That can be cured by using the nv driver, or I have read that a 2.6.11 kernel fixes it, but I've not tried that.
- Richard
I have an ATI video card, and I am running the ATI supplied drivers. But I was having problems anyway before I upgraded to the ATI supplied drivers. - Valur
-- Richard Kimber British General Election 2005 http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/area/uk/ge05.htm
With the help of Sudhir Anand I have solved the problem. The key was to get the source code for the drivers of my USB adapter online, remove all the precompiled drivers that came with the SUSE kernel (they are in /lib/modules/), compile the drivers from source and after that everything worked. No lockups, no hard reboots, everything as smooth as silk. I got the source from http://at76c503a.berlios.de where they list all the devices that that particular driver supports. If you see your device listed there, you should get the cvs nightly tarball, since that is the only version of that driver that supports kernel 2.6.x. Thanks for all your help, - Valur Olafsson
On Friday 29 April 2005 01:28, R Kimber wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:20:31 -0400
Valur Olafsson
wrote: Spoke too soon, the computer froze not 10 minutes after I emailed the list. Still have the same problem. Any other suggestions to debug the problem?
I have experienced something similar, always while using a browser. This suggests it might be related to the network connection, but it might well be something else. All I can say is that I've been experimenting with a fully 64-bit distribution (as opposed to the mixed 64 and 32-bit that I assume most people have) and I have not experienced the problem at all. On the other hand, the stability might be due to some other difference between the 64-bit distribution (Ubuntu) and Suse. I realise this isn't really very helpful, but it may give you something to think about.
- Richard
Richard, What do you mean by mixed" Vs "Fully 64" ? I noted that you said most people have the mixed system. I installed the SuSE 64 bit system and just assumed that it is fully 64 bit. Am I being naive? Perhaps it is the cause of half of my SuSE problems! Regards, Colin
On Friday 29 April 2005 09:50, Colin Carter wrote:
On Friday 29 April 2005 01:28, R Kimber wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:20:31 -0400
Valur Olafsson
wrote: Spoke too soon, the computer froze not 10 minutes after I emailed the list. Still have the same problem. Any other suggestions to debug the problem?
I have experienced something similar, always while using a browser. This suggests it might be related to the network connection, but it might well be something else. All I can say is that I've been experimenting with a fully 64-bit distribution (as opposed to the mixed 64 and 32-bit that I assume most people have) and I have not experienced the problem at all. On the other hand, the stability might be due to some other difference between the 64-bit distribution (Ubuntu) and Suse. I realise this isn't really very helpful, but it may give you something to think about.
- Richard
Richard, What do you mean by mixed" Vs "Fully 64" ? I noted that you said most people have the mixed system.
Not all applications are 64 bit. Some are 32 bit only. You therefore have a 32 bit version and a 64 bit version of most libs. One is in lib, such as /usr/lib, the other in /usr/lib64. This is the correct way to do it, according to the defined standards
I installed the SuSE 64 bit system and just assumed that it is fully 64 bit.
No, it is not fully 32 bit. Some apps are 32 bit. Just one example, java 1.4.x is 32 bit. This is not SuSEs fault or a bug. It is perfectly OK to run 32 bit apps on a 64 bit system, this is one of the features of this specific 64 bit architecture. Proprietary apps, without sourcecode and therefore only available as 32 bit version, can be used on a 64 bit AMD64 Linux system without problems.
Am I being naive? Perhaps it is the cause of half of my SuSE problems!
May be, and may be not. Bugs can be everywhere.
Regards, Colin
HTH, Matt
Thanks to Matt... On Saturday 30 April 2005 00:43, Matt T. wrote:
On Friday 29 April 2005 09:50, Colin Carter wrote:
On Friday 29 April 2005 01:28, R Kimber wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:20:31 -0400
Valur Olafsson
wrote: Spoke too soon, the computer froze not 10 minutes after I emailed the list. Still have the same problem. Any other suggestions to debug the problem?
I have experienced something similar, always while using a browser. This suggests it might be related to the network connection, but it might well be something else. All I can say is that I've been experimenting with a fully 64-bit distribution (as opposed to the mixed 64 and 32-bit that I assume most people have) and I have not experienced the problem at all. On the other hand, the stability might be due to some other difference between the 64-bit distribution (Ubuntu) and Suse. I realise this isn't really very helpful, but it may give you something to think about.
- Richard
Richard, What do you mean by mixed" Vs "Fully 64" ? I noted that you said most people have the mixed system.
Not all applications are 64 bit. Some are 32 bit only. You therefore have a 32 bit version and a 64 bit version of most libs. One is in lib, such as /usr/lib, the other in /usr/lib64. This is the correct way to do it, according to the defined standards
I installed the SuSE 64 bit system and just assumed that it is fully 64 bit.
No, it is not fully 32 bit. Some apps are 32 bit. Just one example, java 1.4.x is 32 bit.
This is not SuSEs fault or a bug. It is perfectly OK to run 32 bit apps on a 64 bit system, this is one of the features of this specific 64 bit architecture. Proprietary apps, without sourcecode and therefore only available as 32 bit version, can be used on a 64 bit AMD64 Linux system without problems.
Am I being naive? Perhaps it is the cause of half of my SuSE problems!
May be, and may be not. Bugs can be everywhere.
Regards, Colin
HTH, Matt Thank you Matt. Sorry to bother you again, but an obvious extension to this question is: Does this mean that I can safely use rpm to install a 32 bit application onto my "64 bit" system? Say from the same SuSE disks? And, if I read you correctly, some of those programs automatically installed during system set-up would have been 32 bit?
Regards, Colin
On Saturday 30 April 2005 06:46, Colin Carter wrote:
Thanks to Matt...
On Saturday 30 April 2005 00:43, Matt T. wrote:
On Friday 29 April 2005 09:50, Colin Carter wrote:
On Friday 29 April 2005 01:28, R Kimber wrote: [snip]
- Richard
Richard, What do you mean by mixed" Vs "Fully 64" ? I noted that you said most people have the mixed system.
Not all applications are 64 bit. Some are 32 bit only. You therefore have a 32 bit version and a 64 bit version of most libs. One is in lib, such as /usr/lib, the other in /usr/lib64. This is the correct way to do it, according to the defined standards
I installed the SuSE 64 bit system and just assumed that it is fully 64 bit.
No, it is not fully 32 bit. Some apps are 32 bit. Just one example, java 1.4.x is 32 bit.
This is not SuSEs fault or a bug. It is perfectly OK to run 32 bit apps on a 64 bit system, this is one of the features of this specific 64 bit architecture. Proprietary apps, without sourcecode and therefore only available as 32 bit version, can be used on a 64 bit AMD64 Linux system without problems.
Am I being naive? Perhaps it is the cause of half of my SuSE problems!
May be, and may be not. Bugs can be everywhere.
Regards, Colin
HTH, Matt
Thank you Matt. Sorry to bother you again, but an obvious extension to this question is: Does this mean that I can safely use rpm to install a 32 bit application onto my "64 bit" system? Say from the same SuSE disks?
Yes. Use yast to install the software, and you should be save anyway. Apt should be fine too. You can see in the rpm name if it is 64 bit, then usually it has x86_64 in the filename somewhere.
And, if I read you correctly, some of those programs automatically installed during system set-up would have been 32 bit?
yes. look in /lib and /usr/lib, all that stuff is 32 bit. The 64 bit stuff is in /lib64 and /usr/lib64 Many libs are installed as both a 32 bit and a 64 bit version, so you can run either 64 bit or 32 bit apps using them. The kernel and its modules is of course pure 64 bit. Here a mix is not used. Regards, Matt
Regards, Colin
On Saturday 30 April 2005 16:57, Matt T. wrote:
On Saturday 30 April 2005 06:46, Colin Carter wrote:
Thanks to Matt...
On Saturday 30 April 2005 00:43, Matt T. wrote:
On Friday 29 April 2005 09:50, Colin Carter wrote:
On Friday 29 April 2005 01:28, R Kimber wrote: [snip] What do you mean by mixed" Vs "Fully 64" ? Regards, Colin HTH, Matt
Thank you Matt. Does this mean that I can safely use rpm to install a 32 bit application onto my "64 bit" system? Say from the same SuSE disks? Yes. Use yast to install the software, and you should be save anyway. Apt should be fine too. look in /lib and /usr/lib, all that stuff is 32 bit. Many libs are installed as both a 32 bit and a 64 bit version, so you can run either 64 bit or 32 bit apps using them. The kernel and its modules is of course pure 64 bit. Here a mix is not used. Regards, Matt Thanks again Matt. Muchly appreciated. Some of my fears of the unknown have been dissipated. Regards, Colin
participants (4)
-
Colin Carter
-
Matt T.
-
R Kimber
-
Valur Olafsson