Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1355 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] zypper/yast vs. other package managers (was: Philosophical question?)
  • From: Per Jessen <per@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 21:12:34 +0200
  • Message-id: <pg1332$rgb$1@saturn.local.net>
Liam Proven wrote:

On 15/06/18 16:51, Felix Miata wrote:

I find using apt/deb yum/dnf incomprehensibly difficult compared to
zypper. e.g.
[...]

I think this boils down to personal preference and familiarity. When I
switched away from SUSE, Zypper didn't exist yet. I am not yet at home
with it.

Yes. zypper is a very powerful tool, I'm also still learning. I
generally have little reason for the more advanced stuff. I see people
mention some zypper option here on the list, and I think "wow, I had no
idea".

But all my supplementary repos are set at priority 99. There's no real
logical priority between them; apparently that is a user issue. I.e.,
do it yourself. IMHO that's bad.

There's probably not much to do about that - they are supplementary, how
can the system know their priorities?

I get nagged a lot about whether I want to "upgrade" a package to a
lower version number, because Zypper seems only to look at the 1st
value after the decimal point. IMHO that's bad.

Yes, I agree. There is always a perfectly reasonable explanation, but
from a pure user perspective, it's illogical.

I get asked a number of questions whenever I do a large upgrade -- is
it OK to do these supplementary packages? Are you sure you want to
continue *after* it's downloaded 500 packages over 15min. I get nagged
about VirtualBox packages every single time. I don't want this stuff.
I don't care. I want a "do it and don't ask again" option.

I get nagged about vendor changes. If it's newer, I want it to just
install it. Don't ask me. Do it.

There are almost certainly options to tell zypper not to ask. I think
the default chosen is the safe one - ask first.

I get told it won't install upgrades *because* of vendor changes. I
don't care. Just do it. No I do *not* want to go and edit a config
file; I expect a command to do that.

Hmm, isn't that typical of the Linux environment though? If I want to
change something basic, I open a config file with vi. Some
applications also have commands for the same, postfix for instance, but
most haven't.

When I remove stuff, I get a screenful of errors about X will break Y,
Y will break Z and Z will break X. That is cyclical: remove the lot.
Don't hassle the user. Decide.

This isn't Leap we are talking about, I hope? If it's Tumbleweed, you
asked for it. It is bleeding edge, BYOBA. (I made that up).

Zypper nags me more than any other packager I've used in a decade. I
am sure there are ways around this, and I am sure there are people
that want this, and I am sure there are good reasons. But, personally,
I don't care. You have your orders: go do them. No questions.

Generally, on Leap, zypper does not ask me (m)any questions, other
then "are you sure?"

DNF requires even less hand-holding. One command and the system is up
to date.
But if I tried 4 different XML editors, and I want to remove them all,
in Synaptic I just tick them, say remove, and the job's done.
I can't do that at all in DNF and in YAST each one must be a separate
operation, probably each involving confirming the individual removal
of 20 submodules.

zypper rm ?


--
Per Jessen, Zürich (20.8°C)
http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland.


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