Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1355 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] zypper/yast vs. other package managers (was: Philosophical question?)
On 15/06/18 16:51, Felix Miata wrote:

I find using apt/deb yum/dnf incomprehensibly difficult compared to zypper.

I think this boils down to personal preference and familiarity. When I
switched away from SUSE, Zypper didn't exist yet. I am not yet at home
with it.

But all my supplementary repos are set at priority 99. There's no real
logical priority between them; apparently that is a user issue. I.e., do
it yourself. IMHO that's bad.

I get nagged a lot about whether I want to "upgrade" a package to a
lower version number, because Zypper seems only to look at the 1st value
after the decimal point. IMHO that's bad.

I get asked a number of questions whenever I do a large upgrade -- is it
OK to do these supplementary packages? Are you sure you want to continue
*after* it's downloaded 500 packages over 15min. I get nagged about
VirtualBox packages every single time. I don't want this stuff. I don't
care. I want a "do it and don't ask again" option.

I get nagged about vendor changes. If it's newer, I want it to just
install it. Don't ask me. Do it.

I get told it won't install upgrades *because* of vendor changes. I
don't care. Just do it. No I do *not* want to go and edit a config file;
I expect a command to do that. No, manually instructing it to do each
one individually by copy-and-pasting a command is not a good alternative.

When I remove stuff, I get a screenful of errors about X will break Y, Y
will break Z and Z will break X. That is cyclical: remove the lot. Don't
hassle the user. Decide.

Apt -- note, not apt-get, which is now historical on Ubuntu; just
``apt'' -- doesn't ask me this stuff. It just does as it's told and it
never asks me to decide.

A system upgrade is 2 commands:
apt update
apt full-upgrade -y

Zypper nags me more than any other packager I've used in a decade. I am
sure there are ways around this, and I am sure there are people that
want this, and I am sure there are good reasons. But, personally, I
don't care. You have your orders: go do them. No questions.

DNF requires even less hand-holding. One command and the system is up to

But if I tried 4 different XML editors, and I want to remove them all,
in Synaptic I just tick them, say remove, and the job's done.

I can't do that at all in DNF and in YAST each one must be a separate
operation, probably each involving confirming the individual removal of
20 submodules.

To respond to one point:

zypper se -s irefo lists existing package versions of Firefox*. I only needed
look at one man page to find that out out.

Which of these man pages shows an equivalent?

That one. All the rest is historical baggage. Forget it.

``apt search irefo''


Synaptic is still the best graphical package manager I've
seen on any OS of any form.
I've never found a powerfule yet friendly GUI for apt, including
synaptic, or
for yum or for dnf. I guess I'm just spoiled by YaST2's power and UI


Individual preference. I don't know of any tool that even approaches
Synaptic's power, for me. YAST, for my personal use cases, doesn't even
come close. But of course it does a thousand other things that Synaptic
doesn't, so I still like it a lot and find it extremely useful. I just
find its package-management functionality a little weak compared to what
I was used to.

Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o.
Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia
Email: lproven@xxxxxxxx - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084

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