Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1355 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] zypper/yast vs. other package managers (was: Philosophical question?)
On 15/06/18 16:51, Felix Miata wrote:

I find using apt/deb yum/dnf incomprehensibly difficult compared to zypper.
e.g.
[...]

I think this boils down to personal preference and familiarity. When I
switched away from SUSE, Zypper didn't exist yet. I am not yet at home
with it.

But all my supplementary repos are set at priority 99. There's no real
logical priority between them; apparently that is a user issue. I.e., do
it yourself. IMHO that's bad.

I get nagged a lot about whether I want to "upgrade" a package to a
lower version number, because Zypper seems only to look at the 1st value
after the decimal point. IMHO that's bad.

I get asked a number of questions whenever I do a large upgrade -- is it
OK to do these supplementary packages? Are you sure you want to continue
*after* it's downloaded 500 packages over 15min. I get nagged about
VirtualBox packages every single time. I don't want this stuff. I don't
care. I want a "do it and don't ask again" option.

I get nagged about vendor changes. If it's newer, I want it to just
install it. Don't ask me. Do it.

I get told it won't install upgrades *because* of vendor changes. I
don't care. Just do it. No I do *not* want to go and edit a config file;
I expect a command to do that. No, manually instructing it to do each
one individually by copy-and-pasting a command is not a good alternative.

When I remove stuff, I get a screenful of errors about X will break Y, Y
will break Z and Z will break X. That is cyclical: remove the lot. Don't
hassle the user. Decide.


Apt -- note, not apt-get, which is now historical on Ubuntu; just
``apt'' -- doesn't ask me this stuff. It just does as it's told and it
never asks me to decide.

A system upgrade is 2 commands:
apt update
apt full-upgrade -y

Zypper nags me more than any other packager I've used in a decade. I am
sure there are ways around this, and I am sure there are people that
want this, and I am sure there are good reasons. But, personally, I
don't care. You have your orders: go do them. No questions.

DNF requires even less hand-holding. One command and the system is up to
date.

But if I tried 4 different XML editors, and I want to remove them all,
in Synaptic I just tick them, say remove, and the job's done.

I can't do that at all in DNF and in YAST each one must be a separate
operation, probably each involving confirming the individual removal of
20 submodules.

To respond to one point:

zypper se -s irefo lists existing package versions of Firefox*. I only needed
to
look at one man page to find that out out.

Which of these man pages shows an equivalent?
apt

That one. All the rest is historical baggage. Forget it.

``apt search irefo''

Done.


Synaptic is still the best graphical package manager I've
seen on any OS of any form.
I've never found a powerfule yet friendly GUI for apt, including
synaptic, or
for yum or for dnf. I guess I'm just spoiled by YaST2's power and UI
logic.

*Shrug*

Individual preference. I don't know of any tool that even approaches
Synaptic's power, for me. YAST, for my personal use cases, doesn't even
come close. But of course it does a thousand other things that Synaptic
doesn't, so I still like it a lot and find it extremely useful. I just
find its package-management functionality a little weak compared to what
I was used to.


--
Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o.
Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia
Email: lproven@xxxxxxxx - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084



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