Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1355 mails)

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[opensuse] Going forward in the wrong direction because of lack of recognition of diversity.
On 13/06/18 11:27 PM, L A Walsh wrote:

Just my 2 cents, ... and
only heard of 386's like some here might
feel about the model-T (car).

There was nothing wrong with the Model-T.
It was the PC chassis of its day, very adaptable, very resilient.
Easy to repair, easy to extend and modify, easy to build.
It attracted a lot of hackers in the old, positive sense of the word, what we
now sometimes term 'makers'.

Maybe he's trying to be more inviting for a younger generation --
something that many greybeards are downright insensitive about,
if not hostile. 

Yes we are hostile to people who who want to run Linux on their cell phones and
tablets, and do the twitter, facebook, IM thing while walking down the street,
crossing the road, driving cars and trucks and trains.

I see more than one old project that is only
being open and run by 'grey-beards', who are happy to run the
project into the dust rather than accept anything remotely like

damn right we do.
Because it's not simply about change per change.
its about the value of that principles of Linux that date back to UNIX, the
'pipes and filters', the 'software tools like cat and grep and sed and and more.
It's about SQL databases being still relevant. Its about the world not being a
GUI. That MS-Windows thinking.
<quote src="";>

The Windows worldview cultivates the expectation that learning to use an OS
means memorizing specific command sequences and fill-ins - and when that
attitude meets the Unix expectation that sysadmins should understand basic
principles first and then apply them, chaos and frustration usually follow.


It's the divide between training and education: the difference between rote
learning and the application of theory to practice.

Basically, to learn Unix you learn to understand and apply a small set of key
ideas and achieve expertise by expanding both the set of ideas and your ability
to apply them - but you learn Windows by working with the functionality
available in a specific release.


I'm just guessing on all this, but I do see it as a problem --
and not just for opensuse, as newer generations are steered by
corporate interests *away* from a personal computer and are replacing
them by 'consumer-only' devices from walled gardens.

Yes, that's what has happened in other areas like automobiles.
Compared to the Model-T, what moves off the showroom floor these days you can't
to much with. Change the tyres, hang some fuzzy dice. A lot of what used to be
3rd party add-ons are not built in: heated steering wheels so no need for furry
steering wheel covers; heated seats ditto; delay wipers ...

Hey. didn't Microsoft incorporate many of the things like The Norton Tools (such
as the disk compressor)(and not as flexible or versatile)?

Some of my concerns have been about seeing opensuse turning toward
the infrastructure for a similar business model -- eventually
offering a suse-app store, for locked-down open-suse machines that
are looked at as appliances by their users.

Scary stuff.
So much of the VM standards, the Docker standards were about portability.
And, oh, right, we had Java, before oracle locked that up.
Lots of useful applications for mind-mapping. project management, UML modelling
and more were written in the Java "write once run anywhere".
Perhaps the greatest proof that what Android runs isn't Java is that I can't run
those Java application on it as I can on my PC.

Meanwhile ...

- ThinkFree Office
- XMind
- Freeplane
- NASA World Wind
- Software tools like Eclipse and Netbeans

Just like few people tinker under the hood of their car anymore since
most of its operations have been sealed off from public casual inspection
and modification, so seems to be going the personal/desktop computer.

The move to the cloud is a way to capture the "top end" of the need
for an inhouse computing department, while smart phones and devices are
aimed at capturing the lower end (the middle has mostly disappeared).

I'm not sure, Richard,  even if all the lists were to change to your
heart's desire, how much difference it would make in the long run...
It's possible it would slow the shrinking audience, but I'm not sure
it would stop it.

Anyway, this is just a WAG on my part and I could be entirely off-base.
So take it with a few grains of salt, but thought I'd throw it out..

I'm glad you did!
I don't often agree with you, but I'm always gad to hear your opinion and read
your posts. You seem to realise that world is a multi-colour complex web of
interests and not the simplified two-tone anti-intellectual disease that seems
to be spreading in so many areas of our society.

It's a case of
Render unto the X that which is the Xs
and to the Y that which is the Ys

... where X and Y are large, irreducible
and not completely orthogonal sets.

As I've mentioned, corporations need to standardize and minimise for reasons
such as "production efficiency", "cost savings" and in many cases things like
reducing the amount of warehouse space needed to store the product. They get
hung up on things like 'efficiency of scale'.

The strength of FOSS has always been that the ability to fork, to pursue other
paths to differing goals. When we loose that we've definitely lost. It's not
that us 'greybeards' (well mine is snowy white actually, the shock of my parents
dying unexpectedly) are resisting change per se. It's that the change in values,
as you say,

about seeing opensuse turning toward
the infrastructure for a similar business model -- eventually
offering a suse-app store, for locked-down open-suse machines that
are looked at as appliances by their users.

If I want an appliance I'll buy a Chromebook.

A: Yes.
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?

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