Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (856 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] interesting reading about systemd
  • From: Larry Stotler <larrystotler@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 04:09:54 -0400
  • Message-id: <>
On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 3:41 AM, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
For the last 6 of those 17 years, openSUSE has been talking about using

I have been busy with life and not that involved. I generally just
lurk and comment very occasionally.

I'm not saying systemd is all bad or that it doesn't make things
better for a lot of people. My point is that it's trying to take over
the whole ecosystem, which isn't what it was presented to folks as
originally. First it was an init replacement, then they kept adding
in all these other services and it's becoming a ogre in the corner.
Why should a desktop (GNOME) require an init system as a dependency?
Even though people were told that KDE4 was the way it was, we have a
team at openSUSE keeping KDE3 alive and we have TDE(which is what I
use) as well. So, we have choice.

From my experience, over the years the number 1 issue I've had with
most linux distros is dependency hell. You try to remove something
unneeded/unwanted and you almost get a broken system. I come from
CP/M, DOS, & OS/2. While each had it's own issues, when you got them
running right, they ran. With Linux, it seems I'm always having to
update everything all the time. I like the LTS approach that uBuntu
uses(just don't care for uBuntu). If we had something like that on
openSUSE(kinda like SLE but more open) I'd probably use it. Heck, I
think my server is still running 12.3.......

I looked through all your use cases, and they don't really apply to
me. I have simple needs for my own systems as well as the few systems
I babysit. Shoot, I still have an 11.0 system in production at one
place - mainly because it has never had an issue and never given a
problem other than a hardware failure(RAM) about a year ago). It just
runs file/print services, and does daily backups of the client
systems. It has net access, but it's behind a robust firewall.
There's a spare drive that gets cloned bi-yearly for the root drive
that sits in a firesafe). Nice and simple.

Choice is really what a lot of people want. We have different
distros, different DEs(KDE vs GNOME and the rest), different
browsers(Firefox vs Chrome), different editors(emacs vs vi), and so
on. Why is it that we can't have a choice in init? Now, I'm aware
that keeping a distro going is a monumental task, and I don't expect
miracles. I'm not asking the devs to fight the river of change now.
I just don't see why we need to let systemd creep over and keep
swallowing other non init services and functions. It's like they are
stacking the deck for their own pet projects - If they create a
dependency on something with systemd, then they take control of the
project. When it is going to become GNU/systemd? Or just
systemdOS?(and hey, if people want that then go for it. There's still
the BSDs and Slackware).
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