Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (856 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] interesting reading about systemd
  • From: Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 09:41:04 +0200
  • Message-id: <CAA0b23y5NNrr6xL01Q-RHvD2ecV4623PqjoK=ZtdnNqAvJUKKA@mail.gmail.com>
On 2 October 2016 at 23:02, Larry Stotler <larrystotler@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
You just made my argument for me. All I did was say "hey I dont care
for it, but it is care for by others so just give me a way to not have
to use it" and you go and try to tell me what to do. So basically, if
I don't agree with you, I shouldn't be here on this list and shouldn't
use openSUSE - even tho I have been using it and supporting it for 17
years.

For the last 6 of those 17 years, openSUSE has been talking about using systemd

For the last 5 of those 17 years, since 11.4 at the beginning of 2011,
openSUSE has been shipping systemd. By the end of that year, in
openSUSE 12.1 it was running by default.

The best time to discuss or raise actionable objections to systemd in
openSUSE were 6 years ago, in 2010, before the openSUSE community made
a collective decision to go there.

An acceptable time would have been any time during 2011 or even into
2012, there is of course the reality that these things sometimes take
some time for peoples opinions to coalesce

But in 2016, 5 years after implementation and 4 years after the
official support end date of the last non-systemd openSUSE
distribution?

I'm sorry, that ship has sailed, crossed the ocean, docked, set out
again, circumnavigated the globe, and is going around again

I admin Linux systems and I find using systemd more difficult than
what I am used to. I don't find it better, so where is the advantage?
Further, I see no advantage for using systemd on a server at all.
But that's MY experience, which is obviously different from YOURS.
However, I'm not telling you to go away just because we disagree.

I am asking you to do take the time to learn about systemd before
considering your opinion on it as complete.

systemd is downright amazing on servers. Want to make a service that
automatically deletes files in a folder every time they appear? That's
like 3 lines in a systemd unit file, done

using systemd's more dynamic features, like having services start only
when required, is a dreamy way of optimising your servers

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/socket-activated-containers.html

unlike ancient, old, useless init systems that preceded it, systemd
KNOWS the state of the boot and the services it required. Not guessing
it and hoping for dozens of well written init scripts to be able to
detect and report their status truthfully, but KNOW, to the point
where a simple systemctl can show you the status of every single
service and it's health.

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-for-admins-1.html

systemd uses cgroups by default - Again, this ensures you as an admin
CAN know every process a service owns - No more
dighttp://0pointer.de/blog/projects/on-etc-sysinit.htmlging around ps
and trying to figure out what bloody processes another service
started. No more mystery processes that escaped the service by
wonderful forking tricks (yes I'm looking at you apache), every
service is running in a cgroup, so a simple systemctl status shows the
processes in that group.

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-for-admins-2.html

Want to limit or prioritise cpu, memory or IO resources to one service
over another? Sure!

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/resources.html

I could go on.. actually I will

Want to figure out EXACTLY which services are taking a long time to
boot and the role they play in the critical boot chain? systemd has
tools that can answer that..

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/blame-game.html

As a sysadmin you want to be in complete control of your system
You want to be able to override the settings and scripts that
distributions have given you for the services they have packaged

Can you do that with sysvinit? not on your life - as soon as you
install the upgraded version of the package all those customisations
will be thrown away

With systemd, you have various ways of selectively, or entirely,
replacing distribution systemd configuration with exactly what you
need, in a way which does not interfere with distributions doing their
responsible role of providing sane defaults for those services

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/on-etc-sysinit.html

Got a service you want to run 10 times with just one parameter
different, such as we do with openQA where we're running multiple
worker services on the same host - systemd makes it easy -
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/instances.html

aaaand now I'm getting tired of signing systemd's praises.. I COULD go
on..and frankly the fact that I could after writing all of the above
should probably give any systemd-sceptic, especially a
sysadmin-systemd-sceptic, pause for thought and start them wondering
whether systemd really is the nasty monster the rumours have made it
out to be, or whether any sysadmin who isn't getting up to speed on
what this can do is going to be left without the skills and expertise
to actually manage the linux systems of today, never mind tomorrow.
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