Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (878 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] Another example of deliberate systemd supporters deliberately sabotaging previously working software...
On 08/05/2015 08:13 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
That all says it very well.
"I'm a bear of very little brain and long words confuse me"
Well long lists and the "sui generis" approach of Windows do.
What you rightly point out is that the long standing adage of UNIX/Linux
that one learns a few patterns and then applies them (which is what,
surely, underpins things like mathematics [and perhaps even arithmetic!]
has been broken, and not simply in the way that Market Street "breaks"
the street-grid pattern in SanFrancisco, but rather brings in a bucket
list of 'exceptions'. Well to be fair, sysvinit was not perfectly
'regular' either...

That is a more than fair statement.

You - almost - make a case for giving up on openSuse and using Arch.

That was not the intent at all. The intent was to show that systemd can be a reasonably friendly environment as long as the freedesktop recommendations for service files and config files are used consistently. The reason this works so flawlessly on Arch, is that is all Arch does. Pure systemd period. No backwards compatible init script hooks, no GUI system configuration tool, nothing, just pure systemd. In that configuration, systemd has no hidden parts, and it is easy to understand.

openSuSE has always had, and will most likely always have some yast type GUI configurator tool. That in it self adds a whole new layer of where base configuration tidbits are stored. Instead of simply having the service files control application config and startup, the /etc/sysconfig layout is also incorporated. That's not a bad thing. Yast is what makes openSuSE new user friendly. Rather than having new users dive directly into config files with vi, the base config in /etc/sysconfig can be to a limited extent configured by point-and-click. The challenge is to integrate the systemd service files/scripts with the needed configs held under /etc/sysconfig without mucking up the basic layout and location of each in the process.

Perhaps what we need to do is pressure the openSuse developers to
declare a road map for full systemd conformance.

That is the holy grail. If we had a simple rule that said all application provided systemd service and script files remain in their native location under /lib/systemd/system with the machine configuration (the systemd equivalent of checkcfg) comply with the normal scheme of providing links in e.g. /etc/systemd/system/, a clean systemd implementation can be preserved. But how to get the /etc/sysconfig config to dovetail with that systemd layout without creating clutter or scattering files? You simply force the reading/combining to the configs under /etc/systemd/system/ (most easily by sourcing the needed information into whatever application service or script link at that location. You then have the normal locations for the sysconfig and systemd files preserved and a single point of machine config for systemd under /etc/systemd/system.

Along the way, maybe Linda will announce that while she's giving up on
openSuse in frustration she is not a turncoat, not a traitor and is not
going to replace openSuse with Windows, but rather with Arch Linux :-0

Perhaps I'll try installing Arch on one of my clunk-servers, the 800Mhz
jobs out of the Closet of Anxieties.

Use the beginner install wiki. The wiki is excellent. There is NO installer for Arch, so you will be building the install by hand at the console ;-) It is actually a great experience that everyone should go through. There is a great deal of learning that greatly helps with the understanding of the install process.

David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
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