Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (878 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] Another example of deliberate systemd supporters deliberately sabotaging previously working software...
On 08/05/2015 12:44 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:

systemd is well behaved and reasonably manageable in that setup (That
was with Arch). The additional difficulties suse faces is the extended
/etc/sysconfig interface that systemd was loosely shoehorned into and
vice versa. That opens up a whole host of new locations where fragmented
bits and pieces of configs, services, scripts, etc.. can find themselves

When, as in Linda's case, we fail to conform to standard locations or
explain changes from the prior logical setup to a new setup/config that
seems to have no relation to where standard files are placed regarding
systemd, we are only screwing the users out of easy/sane management of
their system.

This after they have presumably taken the time to learn where and how
the duct-tape and bailing-wire of systemd fits together. It is
frustrating to take time to learn the proper placement of config/service
files for a new system only to find out "somebody took it up themselves
move/place/hide a config in a non-standard location anyway". Head
scratching?? Why do we have these suggested standards if nobody takes
the time to follow them, ... or follow them consistently.

Good question.
perhaps the openSuse developers/packagers will answer that.

No, wait! what I mean to say is "perhaps we can expect some self-serving
justification ..."

systemd works and works well when fully implemented the way recommends. (Archlinux is the poster-child for this
implementation) openSuSE has several additional challenges in deciding
how/where to interface with the sysconfig layout. It would seem that the
systemd standard locations for services/etc should control and then via
reference or source any information needed from elsewhere. That would at
least provide a road-map for the systemd implementation that conforms
with the freedesktop recommendations.

Sometimes people obsess with backward compatibility to a point where it
is actually crippling. It's when you break away from that you get real

The 'horseless carriage' is a good example. Just the transition from
the 'carriage' to the Model-T was a huge watershed.

The same thing happened with cell phones. Early phones were in a
satchel and had a hand-set like the old "Bakelite' phones. The move to
the RIM with display and keyboard was the precursor of a tool that went
way beyond anything a 'speaking telegraph' could do.

Having worked though systemd implementation with Arch and now openSuSE,
the cleaner and simpler and more consistently you stick to the systemd
recommendations, the easier it is for all.

That all says it very well.
"I'm a bear of very little brain and long words confuse me"
Well long lists and the "sui generis" approach of Windows do.
What you rightly point out is that the long standing adage of UNIX/Linux
that one learns a few patterns and then applies them (which is what,
surely, underpins things like mathematics [and perhaps even arithmetic!]
has been broken, and not simply in the way that Market Street "breaks"
the street-grid pattern in SanFrancisco, but rather brings in a bucket
list of 'exceptions'. Well to be fair, sysvinit was not perfectly
'regular' either...

You - almost - make a case for giving up on openSuse and using Arch.

Perhaps what we need to do is pressure the openSuse developers to
declare a road map for full systemd conformance.
Along the way, maybe Linda will announce that while she's giving up on
openSuse in frustration she is not a turncoat, not a traitor and is not
going to replace openSuse with Windows, but rather with Arch Linux :-0

Perhaps I'll try installing Arch on one of my clunk-servers, the 800Mhz
jobs out of the Closet of Anxieties.

A: Yes.
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?

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