Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (982 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] Getting rid of systemd and putting sysv back
Sam M. wrote:
The Systemd debate is reminiscent of the flamewars between Torvalds
and Tanenbaum over whose kernel was superior, and that's long over.
Just like the Systemd debate is over. Period.

Tannenbaum was emotionally invested in his "baby", which had been shown
to be quite lacking, and unable to play well with others, especially
for the product of a tenured professor (and for which Tannenbaum was
charging cold, hard cash), compared to what was then a hobby project
by a somewhat bored and curious graduate student.


Those of us on the anti-systemd side do *NOT* hold SysVInit to be the
end-all and be-all of how to bring up a system... our complaint is that
system replaces a simple, low-CPU-cycle system, which has deficiencies,
but deficiencies which are well understood AND which can be worked around
relatively simply (worst-case scenario -- hand-mounting filesystems on
external filesystems... but which CAN be automated well enough -- to
the point of providing a desktop icon for naive users).

In place of this limited, and admittedly long-in-the-tooth init system,
which has the benefit of simplicity, modularity, etc (the 12 guide-posts
of GOOD programming listed elsewhere in this thread), the systemd
advocates say that we should throw all of that out, and replace it with a
godawful monstrosity which violates every long-recognized principle of
good program design, every principle of robustness, and is long
enough that bugs probably still exist...which necessitates an update
at sometime in which the executable for process 1 MUSST be replaced,
thereby forcing a reboot.


We *WANT* a replacement for SysVInit... but if we're going to make such
a change, then it better be something better, not one which replaces
well-understood, minor deficiencies with not-well-understood, major
deficiencies, written by a couple of goofballs who think that they're
God's Gift to Coding and so they don't need to abide by fundamental
principles of software engineering.

Dissidents always have
existed throughout history, and the people who won't adopt it or learn
to use it are exactly that. Systemd is not going away as all the major
distros have adopted it. Anyone can rant and rave, scream murder, wave
their arms, etc., but it's all falling on deaf ears, especially on
this email list. If you don't like Systemd, then you should program
your own system and service manager or start/use a distro which
doesn't use it. Obviously there were several major technically
superior advantages to going the Systemd route over System V. It's not
like Pottering used trickery and secret mind powers to get all the
major distros to adopt it. The Systemd "whiners" are a much more vocal
group of individuals on the internet as opposed to people who like
Systemd and are actually getting work done. Another thing to consider
is that many of the Systemd whiners don't have the programming skills
or appropriate job placement to leverage an alternative. Instead, they
act like 8 year olds whose toy got broken, and scream and cry, yet it
changes nothing. Like the psychopathic troll Dirk/Aaron; a perfect
example of a person who writes lots of nonsense and achieves
absolutely nothing. It's quite entertaining to me, to say the least.
Systemd is here to stay, like it or not.


blah blah blah... paint anyone who objects as being disqualified to comment.
My, that's might Marxist of you. And we know how Marxists are far more
interested in replacement for replacement's sake, and grabbing power than
they are in actually improving ANYTHING they get involved in (unless "improving"
means ... more power for them, and less power for everyone else)

If SystemD wasn't such a bloated piece of over-architected crap, with
arcane, overburdened, over-tagged XML config files, there wouldn't be
objections from so many people.

Note that the resistance to system is NOT from just a few fringe
lunatics... it is LARGE, because so many of us recognize it to be
a disaster in the making.

Most of us have been administrating Unix and Linux systems since
before you even touched a keyboard.



On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 10:07 AM, jdd <jdd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Le 29/09/2014 18:55, Doug a écrit :

Until somebody answers the question. Give details as to how to get rid
of systemd and use sysv instead. Given the OS with systemd, how to get
rid of it and make it work with sysv. Anything else is a waste of
bandwidth.


you should ask on factory for a team to do the work, like kde3 fans did, why
not?

jdd

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