Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (982 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] Getting rid of systemd and putting sysv back
On 09/28/2014 08:44 AM, Eliezer Croitoru wrote:


What is the issue?
If you have a specific issue we can maybe understand how to help you.
Note that sysV scripts are supported by systemd.

The issue is not about the technology, technique or implementation, it
is purely emotional.
That is why people like aaron-as-dirk are using abusive language and
threatening the kind of violence we associate with terrorists.

People who have a rational basis for their argument argue from that
basis. People that resort to violence have given up on rational argument.

At one time there was, as with Linux itself, those of us in the days
before releases with numbers greater than zero the the left of the
decimal point might recall, systemd, like KDE4 and like KDE3 before it
and like just about every other major, non-trivial piece of software,
underwent development pangs. What differentiates FOSS from commercial
software is that commercial software can pay for aggressive testing
before its exposed to public scrutiny. Even so, mistakes happen, as we
have just seen with Apple iOS.

The thing is that while Apple iOS 8.0.1 was bungled
http://business.financialpost.com/2014/09/26/apple-incs-bungled-ios-8-update-linked-to-same-manager-behind-flawed-maps-debut/?__lsa=5408-d51d
people are going to forget about it in a while despite this seeming to
be a systemic problem with Apple software. And like Microsoft, Apple
isn't interested in supporting or allowing people to make use of earlier
revisions:
http://venturebeat.com/2014/09/27/after-ios-8s-shakey-start-apple-blocks-the-road-back-to-ios-7/

FOSS, though, depends on the user community much more than commercial
software. Microsoft and Apple and others may release Alpha and Beta
version to a select community, but it is a select community that they
have control over, and not every gung-ho enthusiast who wants to show
off breaking things.

This is good and bad; any review of formal testing procedures will make
that clear. The FOSS approach is less formal, less methodological and
can omit many use-cases, but then again it may also deal with some oddities.

The main problem with the FOSS approach to this kind of development and
testing, the 'release early, release often', is that the Internet
Doesn't Forget. So every blog that complains about problems with the
0.05 revision stays around even though the current is >2.x. It takes a
flood of later comments to percolate to the top of the Google search
list to drown that out.

So yes, there is a lot of "Yes It Used To Be, But We Changed All That"
about FOSS development. The complaints about systemd, KDE4 and so much
more were all valid once. But to keep harping on about stuff that has
long been addressed in an effort to denigrate the present is pathetic
and shows how ill informed and emotional the critics are.

Especially when ther are always new and interesting bugs to be discussed :-)

So, on the one hand we have aaron-as-dirk who has nothing to offer
except foaming at the mouth and advocating a terrorist strike on some of
the programmers involved with systemd, and on the other we have ms Walsh
who runs a heavily non-standard system way out there on the fringe
use-case whose complaints are often ignored because her setup is so
non-standard. We do the Linux community a great dis-service if we
ignore her.






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