Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1239 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] RE: Stability of systemd
Bruce Ferrell said the following on 06/16/2013 10:52 AM:
On 06/16/2013 07:23 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
I said Linux since '93. I've worked with *IX since about '80. Back
then mostly DecUnix and SunOS and I dID see the switch over from the
BSD model to sysV. It did take some getting used to but sysV was
based on transparency... And the shift was CLEARLY and FULLY
documented... No, "well, ya gotta know" garbage.

Are you trying to imply that there's a lack of documentation on systemd?

That is not the case.

The "well, ya gotta know" is really just another way of saying RTFM.
And yes, it information dense. More so than most other man pages and design documentation. That makes it easy to miss stuff - I have. Much of what Cristian has pointed out - what I presume you mean by that "well, ya gotta know" reference is in there, we've just missed it, or the openSuse packagers/developers decided to configure it differently - blame them not systemd.

Unlike many other things about Linux and UNIX Lennart has made sure that the designs were put forward and discussed and experimented with before being made public. I see that 'live' as I watch it going on even now in [systemd-devl]

snippage of kernel level stuff<

So why am I using Linux rather then BSD? Because of systemd!

While the concepts may be laudable, the implementation needs
more careful thought... And THAT seems to be missing.

How come it works so easily for me? Because I'm willing to adapt
and learn and find out they WHY when things don' go the way I
expect. All to often the 'don't go the way I expect' say more
about my expectations than any flaw in the code.

How come it doesn't work for me on a clean install?

Dunno, I wasn't peering over your shoulder when you did that install.

I'm sure I could figure out how to do a 'clean install' of 12.3 and make it fail and blame systemd when the real problem is yast or the bios or something I've selected.

I skipped 12.1 and as I say I've installed a variety of systemd based version of Linux on a variety of hardware. I've documented the issues I've had and, apart from some hardware issues and the usuall hassle with xorg.conf which this forum has helped with, .... it works. The xorg.conf hassle was hassle whichever package In tried!

The thing is, I suspect, that I'm wiling to accept that Lennart and
Cristian are smarter than me, a lot smarter, and I'm willing to
accept their way and learn from them rather than insist that my way
is the right way. I've seen to many changes in *NIX over the years
and its been a proving ground for many great ideas, which is one
reason it has come to dominate despite the lack of Big Advertising
behind it.

Lennert and Christain may be smarter than me... Not necessarily
proven, and irrelevant BUT there seem to be a LOT of people who are
having problems with Lennerts "inventions/concepts".

What I see they have in commin is that they think he's in the wrong, are 'anti". Those that accept and 'get on with it' either don't have problems or seem to be able, as I have done, overcome them.

So there's a psychological factor here.

I know its psychological because I'm anti-Windows and I can't get much of it to work whereas those who are pro-windows and anti-Linux never seem to have the problems with Windows that I do ...

How long did the whining go on when KDE2 went on KDE3?

The only universal constant is change. If a species can not adapt it
goes extinct. That's the law of the universe, adapt or die.
-- Billie Walsh, May 18 2013
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