Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (818 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] Re: openSUSE build & testing procedure and faulty pruning of builds causing rpmbuild failures
Linda,

On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 19:56:00 -0700, Linda Walsh <suse@xxxxxxxxx>

I am complaining that one cannot use a standard suse
distro machine to do a build of the source packages anymore.

You can *IF YOU BUILD THE WAY THAT'S SUPPORTED*. It has been that way
for more than a decade.

Instead of building packages as they would be build by an installed
distro, they are building some arbitrary subset that isn't built to
work with the entire distro they ship.

For the last time: THIS HAS NEVER BEEN A SUPPORTED WAY OF BUILDING
PACKAGES.

If you had such a nice new toy... and someone didn't want to use it, how
well would you respond?

SUSE's primary focus is on building packages for a distribution and
for that, the only reliable way is to build in a defined chrooted
environment. If building packages any other way does work it's totally
unsupported and more or less pure luck. This has always been so and
will not change.

This is an open source world, so if you want it working differently
you have all the sources and are free to make the changes you want and
offer your changes for adoption.

I didn't even ask them *NOT* to use it -- I asked them to
change their 'base system', from a "minimum necessary" (which will NEVER
represent what users have on their machines), to a full development install,
which should catch 90% of the interactions between packages during build
that can happen to customers -- and allow them to be fixed before they hit
the customer.

This is unacceptable for an automatic build system with limited
resources like SUSE uses, first its internal autobuild and then the
OBS. Every package that's part of the build environment must be
tracked to trigger rebuilds when any package in that environment
changes. So you *must* limit the number of packages to the minum
required to build the package.

But no longer do you have a distribution that's integrated and
designed to work together -- but a collection of packages
designed to be run and generated in only certain predictable ways.

That's *your* definition of a distribution, not neccessarily that of
others.

That's not a personal computer -- that's an appliance.

Never in the times that the personal computer exists have you been
guarantied that any random selection of programs will peacefully
coexist.

What people are talking about is shifting SuSE from a linux-distro
builder to a linux-appliance builder (or a platform for building linux
appliances). That would indicate that openSuSE is removing themselves
from the linux distro market, and going for a niche subset market, while
still telling people they are a linux distro.

SUSE has always built packages the way you reject, so *if* your
accusations would be true, we're not shifting somewhere but have
always been there.

No... checking it out from OBS -- let me use svs/cvs/mercurial/git...
whatever, osc hasn't worked for me yet.

No, an SCCS like svc or git is no replacement for OBS so you can't
really compare them or only in certain parts. So focussing on why OBS
doesn't work for you would be much better.

As getting OBS to work is as easy as getting yourself an openSUSE
account and installing the osc package. It has worked that way for me
and for others from day one on, so I'm curious what problems you
encountered.

The new system uses rpmbuild as well, I'm told --
So what directory do I 'cd' to and run my rpmbuild command?

Of cause it uses rpmbuild, but in a defined environment containing
only a fixed number of base packages plus the packages required to
build the one in question. Heck, by default the build environment for
factory doesn't even contain autoconf, automake or makeinfo so you
have to add explicit BuildRequires to the spec if they are needed.

Philipp
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