Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (818 mails)

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[opensuse] Re: openSUSE build & testing procedure and faulty pruning of builds causing rpmbuild failures
Brian K. White wrote:
If the _spec_ file tried to delete files that it didn't create, in
your main system's real absolute path, that might be a packaging
error, or maybe not, because a package is always designed for some
context, and when you use it outside of that specific context, you are
on your own.

If just for example, you try to install a redhat rpm on suse, it may
or may not work, but even if it not only doesn't work but kills your
box, it's your fault. Whatever it did would have worked on the redhat
system it was meant for.
=====

Beautiful example.

Now, would you expect that if you had an up-to-date 12.1 system with
official 12.1 packages installed -- including (since you want to build
samba, the "devel" packages produced by that package), that it should
fail?

Or are you saying we need something as different as RedHat v SuSE to
do builds of the binaries on our openSuSE systems from their source
RPM's? Do you do any development on linux or build source packages --
sometimes the source RPM, but more often, from downloading the tarball,
and using the packages configure/Makefile scripts?

Let's say you do, (cuz if you don't, then you would be unlikely to
firmly understand the issues involved here, ;^) ). Is your system more
likely to have the devel packages installed for the packages you build,
or do you expect to install in a VM or chroot environment and install
all the packages you need each time you do a build with only it's
specific requirements loaded into the VM?

Now understand that you've been building suse packages from their
source RPM's since V7.3 -- a bit over 10 years, and it's worked on suse
systems from past generations, but now you can no longer generate on
a system with all the requirements installed -- you have to prune off
all unnecessary stuff from your system, now as well, because suse
doesn't allow for the complete package building -- it's only providing
partial packages that require you don't have various packages/pieces
installed.

it's source RPM since

When you write a script and it works, and then you try to stick it in
a cron job and it doesn't work, that's not cron's fault for "setting
up a sterile environment". That sterile environment is the only way to
get any sort of sanity, predictability and consistency.
--- Are you saying the suse packages have no more intelligence than
cron?

Cron isn't a tool designed for 1 specific job. It's a general
purpose tool designed to support almost any addin. So it's requirements
have to be minimal. But I don't expect to have to remove 'vi' in order
to run Cron, nor any packages for it to DO ITS JOB.

rpmbuild is quite different from a general package -- using
a specfile, it is very specific to being able to rebuild the binary
packages your system came with so you can fix problems or change things
(create patches, etc). But if you are not allowed to have, say patch
creation software installed when you build things, because patch
creation isn't required to build your package, how do you do
development?



How can you not know this, as a over 10 years experienced linux user?
--- I know it's guaranteed to be give you minimal testing for an
organization who's job is to package all those things together and
make them work.

What it *sounds* like is that openSuSE is no longer a development
/ build environment -- that is supported to work to build it's own
RPM's. What's the point in having such a development environment if it
can't build the packages -- NOT because it has another distro installed,
but because it has the distro's packages installed that you are
building for.

It's a very feeble build system. Does configure require that (not that
I know how to write a configure script!) -- but generally, it was hoped
it would be runnable on almost any supported system -- from windows, to
linux, to BSD to VMS.

We aren't just talking 1 flavor of linux, nor are we talking about some
artificially stripped build environment -- we are talking about
completely different OS's -- that's what gnu has brought to many
platforms.

Yet a distro vendor goes in complete the opposite direction -- not even
supporting builds on their own distro if you have *too many* of it's own
packages installed....

You call that Normal?

How can you have built anything on linux and not know how alien this is?

Cheers!

𝓛𝓲𝓷𝓭𝓪









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