Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1698 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] fsh and distros
lynn said the following on 12/18/2011 11:05 AM:
The example we were working on was bind 9, the latest version of which
is not available on Ubuntu, so he was trying to compile from source. The
Ubuntu bind9 apt-get stuff creates /etc/bind for config files, openSUSE
uses /etc and the official bind docs suggest /srv/named/etc. But that's
just the start. The directory could be /var/lib/named or anywhere else
you can think of. Then is it /etc/init.d/bind9 start, /etc/init.d/bind
start, /etc/rc.d/init.d/bind9 start, service bind start, service bind9
start, service named start, /usr/sbin/named -c /etc/named.conf, start
bind, start bind9, rcnamed start, /etc/init.d/named start. . .Should it
run bind:bind, named:named, root:named, root something else. . .

On a mac, this doesn't arise. He said.

I think he has a good point. Is this the price we pay to be able to have
it anyway we like?

In one sense yes.
In my presentations I often use automobile analogies and I think one
applies here.

It used to be that cars were for enthusiasts, people who loved them and
took them apart and put them back together and bought chrome parts and
polished and enhanced and tuned and gadgeted them up. Heck, there were
even stores that cater to these people. They did their own oil changes,
rotated their own tires, .... all that stuff. no-one called them 'geeks'.

But the auto manufacturers needed profits that that meant volume and
that meant 'consumerism'. And that led to standardization and "no user
serviceable parts inside"[1] and stuff that could not be maintained or
modified anyway because it was a 'sealed box'. Chips rather than

And so it goes; the innards get more monolithic and maybe you can't get
at them to, for example, replace the batter, anyway.

Its about consumerism.

This guy's mistake was to try to compile Bind in the first place.
If he's so mindful of the MAC then he fits the consumerist model, not
the gadgeteer model.

Its true that every luxury cruise liner has to have the kitchens, which
are greasy and steamy, and the engine rooms, which might be as well.
But that's not what the travel agents sell and the passengers are not
allowed to see that part of things.

When it comes down to it, we're the "Sons of Martha"
and that guy was, at heart a Son of Mary.

On most of my machines there isn't a /var/log/syslog nor a
/var/log/messages. The syslog function, be it rsyslog or syslog-ng, is
configured to send to a central machine which has lots of disk space for
logs and the tools to examine them.

Examine them?
Not by human eyes but by automatic tools.
Things like 'swatch'
I can't think of much that's as boring as going through megabytes of
syslog. I've had client which have tools that dump it all into a
database and they have viewers that let them sift and sort .. and buqqer
that. I don't want to look at that.

Marcus Ranum talks of 'artificial ignorance' when dealing with syslogs.
Ignore what you know about, the 'norm'.

Anyway, on my syslog server I have lots and lots and lots of files; I
break things out by service and more, so I don't HAVE to wade though a
big syslog or messages file if all I want to see is when someone other
than myself logged in to my workstation.

The thing about the consumerist mode is that its WYSIWYG. You can't
hack it about. You can't put the holding clutch from a Subaru, the
powered hydraulic suspension of Citroen, ... you can't pick and chose
the bits you like. And on the consumerist computers like Windows and
MAC more and more gets tied down, more and more the vendor has done your
thinking for you.

[1] Call me a bigot but I think only two things should have "no user
serviceable parts inside" stamped on them: ping-pong balls and the human
The only secure computer is one that's unplugged, locked in a safe,
and buried 20 feet under the ground in a secret location... and I'm
not even too sure about that one" - Dennis Huges, FBI.
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