Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1658 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-factory] equivalent to boot.local for systemd
On Friday 09 December 2011, Brian K. White wrote:
On 12/8/2011 5:04 PM, John Andersen wrote:
On 12/8/2011 1:58 PM, Brian K. White wrote:
Yes it's more complicated to reproduce certain actions that used
to be simple, in trade, it makes other actions that used to be
impossible, possible and even relatively simple.

There never were actions that were impossible. There was always a
way.

As someone who has had to write start scripts that handle situations
that were never imagined when the basic scheme sysv init was
imagined.

It might have taken a bit of hacking but it could always be done,
and hacking was seldom if ever actually necessary with sysv. It
did 99.44% of things automatically the right way.


What systemd seems to do is to turn that upside down, making
everything complex so that the very few difficult things seem easy,
even when those difficult things were rarely ever done.

sysv init is like DOS. It "worked fine" "for years and years". And in
fact it did. But eventually the world channged beyond the point of
such a simple system to remain useful. People just plain needed to
use more than one program at a time and TSR's were'nt enough and even
multi-user dr-dos/novell (hey we're on topic by two vectors!) wasn't
enough.

Although sysv init is almost infinitely flexible by the simple virtue
of being mostly made out of shell scripts that you can write anything
you want in to, there still are various basic assumptions that are no
longer always true and they do get in the way and they will only get
worse not better nor even stay the same. sysv init is a simple
concept that is because of that very simplicity not able to handle
the kinds of situations that exist today and tomorrow.

At some point, the net payoff in backwards compatibility from
torturing the old system is less than the net payoff in functionality
usability from abandoning the old system.

Volume control analogy = Fail.

I disagree.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think systemd is quite ready to be
shoving down everyone's throats just yet either.

I particularly think opensuse is in a crap state right now with the
systemd integration being half-baked, documentation being wrong or
incomplete, backwards compatibility shims being incomplete or non
existant, making ?? how many years? of google results all broken
overnight and breaking countless already written software over night,
much of it old no-longer supported but still used and necessary
commercial software, all broken, and with the new forced-march
release schedule and short support life, the option to just use an
older version that won't break everything will go away in mere
months. But these are all suse distribution and implementation
problems not really systemd problems.

I just find all the arguments I've heard against systemd as a concept
kind of stupid so far. People who don't happen to perceive a problem
are just assuming that this actually means there IS no problem. How
nice it must be to be so sure about everything by pure inference and
assumption.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu3s15NBmF1qm4zvuo1_400.jpg

Yes, but even if systemd is not crap itself there is no good reason for
releasing openSUSE with systemd per default while it does not work
beyond grandma's use cases.

Back to topic, even if using boot.local might be not the best idea to
solve things ... it was suse specific for at least 10 years. Such
things can't be simply silently diabled without declaring it obsolete
for some time.

BTW instead of using boot.local one could try crontab(5)'s "@reboot".

cu,
Rudi
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